THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

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Lucas Oliveira
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THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:47 pm

THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

http://www.newsweek.com/universe-should ... ver-692500
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cappuccino
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by cappuccino » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:56 pm

Scientists tend to jump to conclusions.
Dhamma is karma & rebirth.

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L.N.
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by L.N. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:12 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:56 pm
Scientists tend to jump to conclusions.
But they do so far less habitually and far most rigorously than the rest of us. Apparently in this case they jumped to conclusions "after performing the most precise experiments on antiprotons that have ever been carried out," according to the article.
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by cappuccino » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:27 pm

Also their discoveries leave more questions than answers.
Dhamma is karma & rebirth.

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L.N.
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by L.N. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:36 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:27 pm
Also their discoveries leave more questions than answers.
This is one of the natural goals of the scientific method. The scientific method anticipates and encourages an ongoing process of correcting and integrating previous knowledge. Science is great! And it can set a good example for non-scientists.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:30 pm

I found this news on a Brazilian site about gnosticism in the media.

http://cinegnose.blogspot.com.br/2017/1 ... -para.html


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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by perkele » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:25 pm

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:30 pm
I found this news on a Brazilian site about gnosticism in the media.

http://cinegnose.blogspot.com.br/2017/1 ... -para.html
Google translation to English (has become surprisingly good).


A somewhat more soberly alternative to this sensational gonzo headline: Riddle of matter remains unsolved: Proton and antiproton share fundamental properties

They were hoping to find through their precise measurement some tiny little violation of CPT symmetry.
Wikipedia: CPT symmetry - Consequences and implications wrote: The implication of CPT symmetry is that a "mirror-image" of our universe — with all objects having their positions reflected by an arbitrary plane (corresponding to a parity inversion), all momenta reversed (corresponding to a time inversion) and with all matter replaced by antimatter (corresponding to a charge inversion)— would evolve under exactly our physical laws. The CPT transformation turns our universe into its "mirror image" and vice versa. CPT symmetry is recognized to be a fundamental property of physical laws.

In order to preserve this symmetry, every violation of the combined symmetry of two of its components (such as CP) must have a corresponding violation in the third component (such as T); in fact, mathematically, these are the same thing. Thus violations in T symmetry are often referred to as CP violations.
So far the working theory is that CPT symmetry holds universally: to every constituent element of matter (fundamental particle) there is a corresponding type of anti-particle which would behave exactly the same as its "mirror" under "charge conjugation (C), parity transformation (P) [mirrored space], and time reversal (T)".

What is not explained by this theory is why there is any matter left at all (and a little antimatter) in the universe if at the time of the big bang equal amounts of both matter and antimatter came into existence. From what I've gathered it seems, given CPT symmetry, they should have definitely destroyed each other, although I don't really understand in detail why and how. It seems, according to this "working theory" of universal CPT symmetry, that actually all matter and antimatter should soon after the big bang have annihilated each other and left behind only photons, if I understand correctly.

They were hoping to find a violation of CPT symmetry to account for this observed aberration from theory: that the universe in its current form still exists as something else than just a sea of EM radiation.

The "surprising conclusion" that "the universe should not actually exist" does not come from having found out anything new in contradiction to the previous working assumptions. Instead, the previous working assumptions were once again confirmed, and the surprise at that is ongoing. Sort of like the eternally surprised Wen, from Terry Pratchett's "Thief of Time".

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by m0rl0ck » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:51 pm

*sigh* Just reading the newsweek article and while doing so realized that, as is usually the case with physics discoveries, its probably just a matter of time until someone comes up with a way to weaponize asymmetry.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by Kare » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:02 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:56 pm
Scientists tend to jump to conclusions.
Rumour says that jumping to conclusions is accepted as a sport for the next Olympic Games.
Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by bodom » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:46 am

Kare wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:02 am
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:56 pm
Scientists tend to jump to conclusions.
Rumour says that jumping to conclusions is accepted as a sport for the next Olympic Games.
Lol this is the funniest thing I have heard today.

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To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

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well established, restrained
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always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by chownah » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:55 am

THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER
Well, this is a good first step. How long will it take for them to discover that in fact it doesn't exist?
chownah

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:14 am

perkele wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:25 pm
...
They were hoping to find a violation of CPT symmetry to account for this observed aberration from theory: that the universe in its current form still exists as something else than just a sea of EM radiation.
...
Thanks for the explanation!
chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:55 am

Well, this is a good first step. How long will it take for them to discover that in fact it doesn't exist?
chownah
some of them already know ...

Is our universe FAKE? Physicists claim we could all be the playthings of an advanced civilisation

Physicists say there is a possibility that our world is merely a simulation
They claim there may be evidence of this if only we know where to look
For instance, some of the laws of physics may not quite add up, they say

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ation.html

https://www.space.com/30124-is-our-universe-a-fake.html



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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by binocular » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:26 am

Up until about a hundred years ago, it was mandatory in European universities that all students, regardless of their major, take at least a general course in philosophy. I think that scientific "progress" would be far more sensible if students would still be required to do so. Because not just a little of what scientists do today (and which is called "progress" or "discovery") is little more than just rudimentary attempts at philosophy.
Last edited by binocular on Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by binocular » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:28 am

chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:55 am
THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER
Well, this is a good first step. How long will it take for them to discover that in fact it doesn't exist?
... and that it is all in their heads!

It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad. But I guess all those vast amounts of money spent on science would otherwise be spent on warfare or building churches ...

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by cappuccino » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:16 pm

Physicists say there is a possibility that our world is merely a simulation
If this were a simulation, we would be AI…

If we were AI, we would be smarter!
Dhamma is karma & rebirth.

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by aflatun » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:21 am

binocular wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:26 am
Up until about a hundred years ago, it was mandatory in European universities that all students, regardless of their major, take at least a general course in philosophy. I think that scientific "progress" would be far more sensible if students would still be required to do so. Because not just a little of what scientists do today (and which is called "progress" or "discovery") is little more than just rudimentary attempts at philosophy.
BULLSEYE my friend. Excellent post and well said! :goodpost:
Because not just a little of what scientists do today (and which is called "progress" or "discovery") is little more than just rudimentary attempts at philosophy
Love it. Rudimentary and clueless as to the assumptions involved in their speculations and how much better "all that" has already been done by the long dead without any scientific toys...
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

binocular
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by binocular » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:56 am

:bow:

chownah
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by chownah » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:07 pm

binocular wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:26 am
......not just a little of what scientists do today (and which is called "progress" or "discovery") is little more than just rudimentary attempts at philosophy.
Could you give us half a dozen examples from various disciplines?
I'm thinking about rudimentary attempts at philosophy which gave the scientific foundations so that engineers (who don't even seem to be making any attempts at any kind of philosophy) could produce the internet, nuclear weapons, space travel, photography, penicillin, glysophate, remotes for televisions, cosmetic surgery, etc. etc. etc. etc.. What other kind of rudimentary philosophy has had such an impact on so many people in so many ways? I'd hazard a guess and say "none".
chownah

binocular
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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:52 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:07 pm
binocular wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:26 am
......not just a little of what scientists do today (and which is called "progress" or "discovery") is little more than just rudimentary attempts at philosophy.
Could you give us half a dozen examples from various disciplines?
I'm thinking about rudimentary attempts at philosophy which gave the scientific foundations
Who said anything about "rudimentary attempts at philosophy which gave the scientific foundations so that engineers /.../ could produce the internet etc."?

Aflatun and I were talking about "discoveries" like those in the OP -- where scientists use esp. physics to reply to metaphysical questions.

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Re: THE UNIVERSE SHOULD NOT ACTUALLY EXIST, CERN SCIENTISTS DISCOVER

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:11 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:52 am

Aflatun and I were talking about "discoveries" like those in the OP -- where scientists use esp. physics to reply to metaphysical questions.
Yes, an excellent example is A Universe From Nothing, by Lawrence Krauss. I've not read it, but witnessed a number of philosophers and theologians queueing up to kick it.

Dawkins' The God Delusion is another beauty. It contains what one philosopher has called the most specious argument in the history of human thought.

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