Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

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oncereturner
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Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by oncereturner » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:46 pm

My friends,

how it is possible, in a country, where the 95% of population are theraveda buddhist, are so many problems?
Poverty, rubbish on streets, crime, pollution.

This article shocked me:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... cohol.html

In India, the original land of buddhism, there are even worse conditions. What went so wrong?

What is your opinion? :thinking:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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bodom
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by bodom » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:06 pm

Someone once asked Ajahn Chah this question and his reply was this:
"Those aren't Buddhists who are doing those unwholesome things. That isn't Buddhism doing those things. Those are people doing those things. Buddha never taught anything like that."
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... neous2.htm

They are "Buddhist" in name only.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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SDC
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by SDC » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:25 pm

Culture will always encompass religion, even if the culture is rooted in religious values. Nothing can stop achievements from being quantified, formalized and becoming just a "part of" a greater collections of events and the parts can never stand for more than the collection of which they are a part, because even if it seemingly does, that too will fall back as yet another event in a bigger picture. No doubt this blurs the lines of what constitutes religion and culture, but in the end, routine and comfort will trump core religious values every time; even to the point where those comforts will corrupt and alter the foundations of that religion.

In short, desire overpowers doctrine.

ieee23
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by ieee23 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:17 pm

oncereturner wrote:My friends,

how it is possible, in a country, where the 95% of population are theraveda buddhist, are so many problems?
Poverty, rubbish on streets, crime, pollution.
How are poverty, pollution, hunger, and crime possible in Christian nations?

Every been to Washington D.C. and go to the non-tourist areas? How is that possible in one of the most powerful, rich, and technologically advanced countries in the world?
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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JeffR
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by JeffR » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:52 am

There have always been rogue monks; even under the Buddha. Read Thinasaro Bhikkhu's two volume "Buddhist Monastic Code".
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945

SarathW
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by SarathW » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:15 am

What is your opinion? :thinking:
This is a good question but not easy to answer.
The simple answer is Buddhist in Buddhist countries are Buddhist only by name.
Majority (80-90%) do not understand Buddha's teaching.
Balance who understand Buddhism only preach but do not practice.
But if you need a positive story go to Japan.
The best people you ever you met find there.
The country is clean. Not a single beggar in the street.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

binocular
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:47 am

oncereturner wrote:how it is possible, in a country, where the 95% of population are theraveda buddhist, are so many problems?
/.../
In India, the original land of buddhism, there are even worse conditions. What went so wrong?
Was it ever right to begin with?
Were traditionally Buddhist countries ever a kind of Buddhist heaven?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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oncereturner
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by oncereturner » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:58 pm

Thanks for moderators and members for answering.

I just really wanted to read some good news from Thailand. From a Buddhist country good news are coming, right? I didn't know anything about this country. I have seen beautiful temples in pictures. But every time I search in Google, sad news pop up. I don't believe them, but what I read in Daily Telegraph I believe, for this is one of the most respected newspapers in the world.

I'm sure Buddhism is the right way.

I learned Japanese for four years still I can't tell a single word. Not easy. :) Doesn't matter, I turn my interest to Japan. But that's not theraveda.

With Metta
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

chownah
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:42 am

oncereturner wrote:I just really wanted to read some good news from Thailand.
onceruturner,
Hi. I live in thailand in a small village. The problems you hear about in thailand does not really describe what it is like everywhere here. It is true that there is poverty, rubbish on streets, crime, and pollution in thailand but these are not big problems everywhere. There are poor people in my village but they get the things they need to live their lives. They can go to the temple and get food to eat, they usually can have a small garden if they want. They can often find odd jobs to make a little bit of money. The gov't gives a small amount of money to many of them every month. Their families and neighbors help them from time to time. It doesn't cost much to live in thailand. I remember when one man lost a leg in a motorcycle accident. He had very little before the accident and losing a leg kept him from doing what little work he did before. His family used a small corner of their land by the fish pond as a place to build a very very small house for him. The gov't (I don't know if it was the federal, provincial, or village gov't.) gave enough money for most of the building materials and people donated this and that. About 20 villagers worked for free and in two days he had a one room home complete with indoor toilet and even enough electricity to run lights, refer, and tv or music machine.

There is not a problem with litter. Crime is not much of a problem....I've never had a problem with it and can't remember mentioning any problems......and no pollution except for farmers using pesticides.

So, I hope you can see that the newspapers will report the bad news because people are attracted to it but the good news is usually overlooked in that it is sort of boring.....but there is good news all around.
chownah

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Aloka
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:37 am

oncereturner wrote: what I read in Daily Telegraph I believe, for this is one of the most respected newspapers in the world.
The UK Daily Telegraph is a right-wing (Conservative party supporting) newspaper and I somehow doubt it is "one of the most respected newspapers in the world" other than in their own promotions.


.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:04 am

Aloka wrote:The UK Daily Telegraph is a right-wing (Conservative party supporting) newspaper and I somehow doubt it is "one of the most respected newspapers in the world" other than in their own promotions.
The Telegraph is certainly one of the most respected newspapers in the world. In fact all the British broadsheets —both left and right— would fit this description on account of the care that they take to keep news reporting separate from editorial comment.

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Maitri
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by Maitri » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:51 am

oncereturner wrote: I'm sure Buddhism is the right way.
Yes, you are right, to a degree. The Dhamma is the right way. Buddhism is a lot of add on and subtraction to what the Buddha instructed. Some of things are good, others not so much. So we are taught to have faith in the Three Jewels, not Buddhism. This is what is important to keep our conviction and focus on the path strong.

There is a hope for even the smallest faith:
https://suttacentral.net/en/sa-2.51
Then Sakka spoke this verse:

“If a person has pure faith in the three jewels, /
​if his mind is stable and unwavering,
if he keeps the precepts he has undertaken, not breaking them: /
​know that this person should not be called poor.

He should be called wise and long-lived. /
​Through venerating the unsurpassable three jewels,
He will be reborn in heaven and attain great bliss. /
​Therefore one should train in this way.”
Yes, Buddhists can be a bunch of knuckleheads just like everyone else. Just look at the horrific business that Cambodia and Vietnam went through- you would think Buddhists countries would know better than to adopt Communism, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. Sri Lanka was embroiled in a terrible civil war for years, so these conflicts are part and parcel of being human. I do think the ordained Sangha would benefit from some house cleaning, but I'm not Thai and I'm not ordained so I don't have much to offer than a few *tsk tsk* when I see such behavior.
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

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oncereturner
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by oncereturner » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:16 pm

chownah wrote:
oncereturner wrote:I just really wanted to read some good news from Thailand.
onceruturner,
Hi. I live in thailand in a small village.
...
So, I hope you can see that the newspapers will report the bad news because people are attracted to it but the good news is usually overlooked in that it is sort of boring.....but there is good news all around.
chownah
Hi Chownah. I'm happy to read that state of affairs are not so bad in Thailand. Newpapers maybe distort reality, focusing to horrible things, to attract more readers. People like shocking news, this gives them some relief, from the monotonous and boring life. I read news and I find that my problems are minuscule, compared to others.
I live in a small country in Eastern Europe, the population is 10 million. 30% lives in poverty. It is impossible to imagine, in my country, that people help each other building a house. There is a lot of homeless and beggars. Indiviualism is the way of life, oligarchy is rising. We have the highest rate of suicide per capita, consequence of negative thinking. But crime is low, I can walk with a lot of money in my hand all accross the city, without any fear. The government and police is strong, robbery and even minor crimes are punished with several years in jail. It is a christian country, buddhism is unknown.
We just started to discover oriental wisdom. Yoga and meditation centres opened few years ago. Intelligent people will benefit from knowing the Dhamma.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

Bankei
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Re: Serious problems in buddhist Thailand

Post by Bankei » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:23 am

To say that 95% of Thais are Buddhist is like saying 60% of Australians are Christian. This is in name only. Very few Thais are interested in Buddhism and usually only encounter something Buddhist when there is a funeral or some sort of special occaision. Then it is merely superficial donations to 'make merit' in an attempt to get some good karma to cancel out the bad karma.

Similar with the so called Christians - only Christian when it comes time for funerals.

Bankei
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Bankei

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