Changes in attitudes towards global warming

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.

In the past 5 years I have become...

More concerned about man-made climate change
19
46%
Equally concerned about man-made climate change
9
22%
Less concerned about man-made climate change
5
12%
Never believed in it, still don't
5
12%
Climate change? Global warming? Bring it on!
3
7%
 
Total votes: 41

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 18614
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 01, 2017 8:02 am

Greetings,

I'm interested to know whether people's attitudes towards global warming or climate change have changed over time?

Feel free to explain your reasoning...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Disciple
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:13 pm

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Disciple » Mon May 01, 2017 8:05 am

Since it is very cold where I live, I chose the last option. :toast:

pulga
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by pulga » Mon May 01, 2017 2:26 pm

I consider it a very real problem, but it’s odd how those most concerned about climate change are very often those with inordinately large carbon footprints. It’s easy for the affluent to advocate policies that don’t adversely affect themselves to the extent that they affect the poor.

User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by JamesTheGiant » Mon May 01, 2017 2:43 pm

I used to be very concerned, and participated in actions, protests, and suchlike.
But after 20 years of seeing nothing effective done, and humans seemingly rushing ever faster towards the edge of the cliff, now I have changed to a state of resignation and acceptance. It's going to happen. Human greed and the systems of money and governance we have built won't allow us to stop it. Our society has gone up a no-exit road, and there's no way back.
Humans will survive but not our particular civilization we have now.
We're all dooooomed! :shrug:
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

binocular
Posts: 4124
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by binocular » Mon May 01, 2017 3:48 pm

I used to be very concerned about man-caused global warming. But by now, seeing that people go on with their lives as if all is well, resignation has taken over me in regard to the issue of global warming.

User avatar
coucholder
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:36 am

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by coucholder » Mon May 01, 2017 5:22 pm

To the thread,

I haven't completely given up hope that this problem can be corrected, but I've always been at least equally concerned with the numerous other ways we could destroy ourselves and countless other forms of life. If anything man-made is going to kill me, it'll be a bullet or a bomb or a foreclosure before it's going to be a rising sea level--but with my luck, that's what they're going to write on my inflatable headstone.
natthi me saraṇaṃ aññaṃ
buddho me saraṇaṃ varaṃ
etena sacca-vajjena
hotu me jayamaṅgalaṃ


A socialist is just someone who is unable to get over his or her astonishment that most people who have lived and died have spent lives of wretched, fruitless, unremitting toil. Terry Eagleton, Ideology: An Introduction.

When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist. Hélder Câmara, Essential Writings.

R1111
Posts: 1019
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by R1111 » Mon May 01, 2017 6:13 pm

I am not holding views in regards to this because i am not educated in the matter and dont care much. I am skeptical to the reasearch, the methodology, the invested interests and the presentation. I think there is a lot of bogus surrounding the issue.

User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by polarbear101 » Tue May 02, 2017 12:02 am

I have become more concerned. But I would like my personal consumption and political efforts to not be dependent on achieving some great worldwide or nation-wide successes. It may very well be the case that global warming and other issues will take more than my lifetime to significantly slow or start to decline. The idea of giving up hope seems misguided, one sea turtle saved by reducing/reusing/recycling plastic is still one sea turtle saved, even if a thousand other sea turtles die from plastic pollution. In the same way, small victories on reducing GHGs or preventing their increase, are still victories, and over time with persistent effort that could create a cultural/social/political atmosphere that eventually positively impacts our physical atmosphere. And if it doesn't, at least I'm trying to do my part. This isn't to say that we shouldn't try to effect quick and significant change, just that we should take a long-term view and not give up if at first we don't succeed.

Check out the article The Arithmetic of Compassion and the related website if you are interested in a take on a scientifically informed and effective attitude of compassion.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 18614
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Tue May 02, 2017 7:01 am

Greetings,

From a global perspective I was originally quite concerned about climate change. Going in, I acknowledged that the field of climate study was embryonic and if weather forecasters struggle to accurately forecast the weather a week in advance, then how could they accurately predict such matters? If they could not know for sure, then a layman like me could not possibly know for sure. The diversity in predictions about the timescales and severity of climate change was commensurate with the uncertainty involved. Nonetheless, I was content to defer to the judgement that there must be something in it.

In time, climate change came to be politicized by both sides of politics, with advocacy coming from the left. It's not difficult to discern the political motives of those on each side, but as I had traditionally associated with the left of politics, I was happy to remain concerned about the issue.

Then came the rise of "identity politics", which fuelled hysteria, victimology and political correctness on the left, in pursuit of political advantage. At this point, I began to question what I had been content to assume up until that time. Were people just telling us "the science is settled" so that we stop doubting the claims? Were climate scientists over-hyping the threat in order to further their own careers or the industry upon which they had become dependent? How far had the science really progressed and how much of whatever was observed could reasonably be attributed to man-made influence, as opposed to natural climatic change? How much is just panic from those predisposed to anxiety and catastrophizing? Is this simply the latest instance of "the end of the world is nigh"? How much was just about virtue signalling and finding avenues to impugn politicians that the left wanted to portray as being out of touch or lacking in compassion for future generations?

Many questions, more than ever before and I still don't know the answers to any of them. If someone tells you they know the answers one way or another with any degree of certainty, chances are because it's actually because they want to further their personal or political agenda.

Thus, being clueless about the matter from a global perspective, I set that aside and take Disciple's lead in appreciating whatever warmth may come my way.

8-)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2493
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by robertk » Tue May 02, 2017 7:26 am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -due-snow/
Heavy snow forces postponement of People’s Climate March rally in Colorado
:tongue:

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 7:35 am

Hi, Paul,
This -
retrofuturist wrote:If someone tells you they know the answers one way or another with any degree of certainty, chances are because it's actually because they want to further their personal or political agenda.
- seems to be your central reason for disbelieving everyone. Do you feel the same way about someone telling you they know the answers about (e.g.) the composition of common salt, the time the sun is likely to rise tomorrow morning, the fuel consumption of the car you're planning to buy, the cost of a litre of milk?
I'm sure you don't.
Why not?
Because you listen to people with expertise rather than people with axes to grind.
retrofuturist wrote: Many questions, more than ever before and I still don't know the answers to any of them.
So do the same with climate science: listen to the experts.
https://climate.nasa.gov
https://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/
https://www.climate.gov/maps-data
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/#t ... timeseries
(In particular, play with the climate trend maps on that last site until you understand their implications.)

The bottom line is that we do have a problem and if we do nothing about it, we will have a really big problem (you will, anyway - I'm older so I may escape the worst of it by dying first). And it's a social justice problem, a moral problem, because it will hit the poorest people hardest: droughts in sub-Saharan Africe, cyclones in the Philippines and Bangla Desh, etc.

:thinking:
Kim

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 18614
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Tue May 02, 2017 7:45 am

Greetings Kim,

I only have limited time and effort, and as per my earlier comment, the inherent complexity in climate modelling precludes having any detailed understanding, without massive upfront investment.

Given that I, as a single person, have virtually zero impact over climate change, I cannot personally justify that investment of time and effort.

That is not to say that large entities, such as the UN, nations etc. should not undertake such investigation, but the time/effort to impact ratio for me as an individual just doesn't warrant my personal investigation into such matters.
Because you listen to people with expertise rather than people with axes to grind.
When the people with expertise arguably often have axes to grind, or at least personal, political and professional agendas to fulfil, that precludes pretty much everyone.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 7:46 am

robertk wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -due-snow/
Heavy snow forces postponement of People’s Climate March rally in Colorado
:tongue:
...providing climate skeptics with a good chuckle.
Indeed.
But, as Hansen showed in 2012, climate change increases variability at both ends of the range, although it is skewed towards the high end - i.e. we're seeing far more maximum-temp records falling than minimum-temp.

:coffee:
Kim

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 7:52 am

retrofuturist wrote:When the people with expertise arguably often have axes to grind, or at least personal and professional agendas to fulfil, that precludes pretty much everyone.
Hi, Paul,
Doesn't that apply equally to doctors, dentists, chemists, engineers, vets, teachers, mechanics ... everyone with any expertise?
Do you distrust all of them for the same reason?
If not, why not?

:thinking:
Kim

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 18614
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Tue May 02, 2017 8:00 am

Greetings Kim,
Kim OHara wrote:Doesn't that apply equally to doctors, dentists, chemists, engineers, vets, teachers, mechanics ... everyone with any expertise?
No, because with those people you can make recourse to the quality outcomes of the work in order to determine their aptitude.

Does the doctor have a good success rate at diagnosing illness?
Does the vet manage to save lives without charging exorbitant fees?
Do the engineer's bridges and buildings collapse?
Do the mechanic's customers find satisfaction with their work?

All these things are (to at least some degree) quantifiable and assessable by the lay person. Some of it you can learn just by going to Google Reviews, or asking for a few references.

That is not the case with climate change. For all we know as laypeople, we may as well be having a chat with Nostradamus back in the day and listening to his prophecies... we'd be equally oblivious to the accuracy or falsity of his predictions.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

binocular
Posts: 4124
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by binocular » Tue May 02, 2017 8:24 am

retrofuturist wrote:I only have limited time and effort, and as per my earlier comment, the inherent complexity in climate modelling precludes having any detailed understanding, without massive upfront investment.

Given that I, as a single person, have virtually zero impact over climate change, I cannot personally justify that investment of time and effort.
And when millions of people think this way, things are the way they are.

Although I think that for a Buddhist, thinking in incremental/infinitensimal terms should come naturally. For example, in order to counteract a bad habit, one possibly has to approach it in incremental/infinitensimal terms, observing the slightest little action or movement of the mind that incline one to the bad habit, and then act on that incremental/infinitensimal level to produce large-scale change.
That is not to say that large entities, such as the UN, nations etc. should not undertake such investigation, but the time/effort to impact ratio for me as an individual just doesn't warrant my personal investigation into such matters.
We have a garden and an orchard. We see climate change in action. I haven't studied the scientific research on climate change, and I feel no need to. I just know that things are getting worse, seeing the climate damage done on perennial plants and that it is getting more and more difficult to grow seasonal fruit and vegetables due to unpredictable weather changes, such as cold and hot spells, droughts, fewer and fewer bees.
We can also see that the situation is similar on other farms, gardens, orchards, so that it's not just our little patch of land that is affected.

All that waste that humans produce can't possibly be good for the environment. That is reason enough to be worried, and to do something about it, and one doesn't even need to rely on any research, scientific or otherwise.

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 11:41 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Kim,
Kim OHara wrote:Doesn't that apply equally to doctors, dentists, chemists, engineers, vets, teachers, mechanics ... everyone with any expertise?
No, because with those people you can make recourse to the quality outcomes of the work in order to determine their aptitude.

Does the doctor have a good success rate at diagnosing illness?
Does the vet manage to save lives without charging exorbitant fees?
Do the engineer's bridges and buildings collapse?
Do the mechanic's customers find satisfaction with their work?

All these things are (to at least some degree) quantifiable and assessable by the lay person. Some of it you can learn just by going to Google Reviews, or asking for a few references.

That is not the case with climate change. For all we know as laypeople, we may as well be having a chat with Nostradamus back in the day and listening to his prophecies... we'd be equally oblivious to the accuracy or falsity of his predictions.

Metta,
Paul. :)
As it happens, here's ...
...a projection from 1981 for rising temperatures in a major science journal, at a time that the temperature rise was not yet obvious in the observations, has been found to agree well with the observations since then, underestimating the observed trend by about 30%, and easily beating naive predictions of no-change or a linear continuation of trends. It is also a nice example of a statement based on theory that could be falsified and up to now has withstood the test.
Read the whole thing (it's only a page) at http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... rojection/

:reading:
:thinking:

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Thu May 04, 2017 4:43 am

P.S. to the above: I just came across this excellent interview in which a former professional denialist credits Hansen's predictions for flipping his attitudes.

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/28/how ... r-science/

:coffee:
Kim

chownah
Posts: 6612
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by chownah » Sat May 06, 2017 2:29 pm

I first heard of global warming more than 20 years ago...maybe it was 30 years ago or even more, I don't remember. At the time the problem which was most on people's minds was rising sea levels and the need to someday abandon some coastal cities. At the time I just figured that it was no big deal that people would have to move because there was going to be plenty of warning....it was not like you would wake up one morning and without warning your house would be awash. I figured that the main difficulty would be with poor people but didn't give it too much thought because it is always the poor people who have difficulty with changes of any sort so I just chalked it up to one more of the many already existing things that would harrass the poor. I also realized that alot of rich people would lose fancy houses and investments but I have never had much sympathy for rich people losing money...they can afford it.

As time went on I learned that there would be alot more happening than just sea level rising and that alot more people would be effected....so many that there might be wide spread social discontent and upheaval. I also started to wonder if it could get so warm that the earth would lose its atmosphere entirely and this was a cause for some concern even though I was (and am) fully aware that the earth will someday be destroyed by the natural physics of the life cycle of the star we call the sun. The wholesale destruction of all life on earth is a concern for me but not a very big one.....mostly a theoretic concern for me I think.

Now I've learned that global warming does not pose a threat to the earth losing its atmosphere.....there are things which would pose that threat but global warming is not one of them it seems. So, with this knowledge I stopped worrying about all life being snuffed out due to global warming and I am mostly back to the view that it is the poor people of the earth who will suffer the most.....but isn't that just the way it always has been?

I think that because of advances in power generating technologies it seems that someday there will be a low enough greenhouse gas emissions that the atmospheric levels of these will decline to historic levels and things will gradually get back to the sweet spot of yore.....but the lacksadaisical attitudes of many and the slow pace of impementing these technologies seems to mean that there will be really alot of suffering especially with the poor....and if enough poor suffer too much it is within their power to spread the suffering around to richer neighborhoods.....I'm lucky because I don't live in a richer neighborhood....do you?

I am not an expert in any field which to some means that I am out of my depth in any of them while to me it means that I am not beholden to any of them and so I have a fairly unique persepective unobscured by attachment to my work, my field, or my career.

In science there is no guarantee that anything has been gotten exactly right. OH MY OH MY uncertainty and doubt (fear optional). Get over it but learn to deal with it....it is just the way it is. Newton was consider wrong for many many years when he published and then he was considered to be EXACTLY right for a few centuries before it was realized through einstein's work that newton was mosty right but not quite. In science there is no guarantee.

Having said that I am reasonably certain that global warming and climate change is happening and that humans' release of certain gases into the atmosphere is the primary cause. How can I be sure?....simple, I am not completely sure....not 100% sure but I am sure enough that I support taking action to change the world's power soure from fossil fuel to alternative and carbon neutral energy sources.

One reason I support that action without being 100% sure is that changing the world's power source from fossil fuel to alternative and carbon neutral energy sources has got no down side (except for those rich people who own the fossil fuel companies and I have alread said that I don't worry too much about rich people). THINK ABOUT IT....what is the down side to switching over to alt energy/carbon neutral energy?....THERE IS NONE. It's good for the water, its good for the air, its good for giving individuals more independence and security, it can not be used to fund terrorists in the mideast (or anywhere else), it creates jobs, it creates wealth from peoples initiative instead of from them having monopolies on natural resources....etc. etc. etc. Even that conservative ex gov of california (no not rayguns) the terminator sees the lack of downside and the huge upside of the switch....perhaps I'll find a link where he talks about this.

One more thing....the scientific opposition is pretty much entirely made up of people funded by fossil fuel companies. Hard to find a scientist with much climate change savy that is a denier who has not been financed by fossil fuel companies.....think about it.

ONe more thing. You don't need to be too "scientific" about this.....what is happening to the polar bears (ice bears in some countries)? What have the aboriginal people who live on the arctic ocean in canada say about how their environment has changed?....the old people have some really good observatoins on this. Animals are shifting where they live as the ecosystem which provides their existence shifts and moves. You don't need to understand satellite data and complex theories to see that things are changing and chnging veryii fst...so fst that I cant evne type right anymore.

One more thing. The real problem is population size. Start supporting the world wide movement to educate girls so that when they become women they will be seen to have value in supporting the family instead of just being a baby machine......or do whatever else you can to reduce the population growth. Stop the population growth and the slow implementation of alternative energy will lose its sting...don't stop population growth and eventually.....hopeless......
chownah

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Mon May 08, 2017 12:59 am

Thanks, chownah - a sensible attitude and you make some excellent points.

:namaste:
Kim

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests