Changes in attitudes towards global warming

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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In the past 5 years I have become...

More concerned about man-made climate change
23
50%
Equally concerned about man-made climate change
9
20%
Less concerned about man-made climate change
6
13%
Never believed in it, still don't
5
11%
Climate change? Global warming? Bring it on!
3
7%
 
Total votes: 46

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retrofuturist
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Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 01, 2017 8:02 am

Greetings,

I'm interested to know whether people's attitudes towards global warming or climate change have changed over time?

Feel free to explain your reasoning...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

Disciple
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Disciple » Mon May 01, 2017 8:05 am

Since it is very cold where I live, I chose the last option. :toast:

pulga
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by pulga » Mon May 01, 2017 2:26 pm

I consider it a very real problem, but it’s odd how those most concerned about climate change are very often those with inordinately large carbon footprints. It’s easy for the affluent to advocate policies that don’t adversely affect themselves to the extent that they affect the poor.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by JamesTheGiant » Mon May 01, 2017 2:43 pm

I used to be very concerned, and participated in actions, protests, and suchlike.
But after 20 years of seeing nothing effective done, and humans seemingly rushing ever faster towards the edge of the cliff, now I have changed to a state of resignation and acceptance. It's going to happen. Human greed and the systems of money and governance we have built won't allow us to stop it. Our society has gone up a no-exit road, and there's no way back.
Humans will survive but not our particular civilization we have now.
We're all dooooomed! :shrug:

binocular
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by binocular » Mon May 01, 2017 3:48 pm

I used to be very concerned about man-caused global warming. But by now, seeing that people go on with their lives as if all is well, resignation has taken over me in regard to the issue of global warming.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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coucholder
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by coucholder » Mon May 01, 2017 5:22 pm

To the thread,

I haven't completely given up hope that this problem can be corrected, but I've always been at least equally concerned with the numerous other ways we could destroy ourselves and countless other forms of life. If anything man-made is going to kill me, it'll be a bullet or a bomb or a foreclosure before it's going to be a rising sea level--but with my luck, that's what they're going to write on my inflatable headstone.
natthi me saraṇaṃ aññaṃ
buddho me saraṇaṃ varaṃ
etena sacca-vajjena
hotu me jayamaṅgalaṃ


A socialist is just someone who is unable to get over his or her astonishment that most people who have lived and died have spent lives of wretched, fruitless, unremitting toil. Terry Eagleton, Ideology: An Introduction.

When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist. Hélder Câmara, Essential Writings.

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Mon May 01, 2017 6:13 pm

I am not holding views in regards to this because i am not educated in the matter and dont care much. I am skeptical to the reasearch, the methodology, the invested interests and the presentation. I think there is a lot of bogus surrounding the issue.

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Polar Bear
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Polar Bear » Tue May 02, 2017 12:02 am

I have become more concerned. But I would like my personal consumption and political efforts to not be dependent on achieving some great worldwide or nation-wide successes. It may very well be the case that global warming and other issues will take more than my lifetime to significantly slow or start to decline. The idea of giving up hope seems misguided, one sea turtle saved by reducing/reusing/recycling plastic is still one sea turtle saved, even if a thousand other sea turtles die from plastic pollution. In the same way, small victories on reducing GHGs or preventing their increase, are still victories, and over time with persistent effort that could create a cultural/social/political atmosphere that eventually positively impacts our physical atmosphere. And if it doesn't, at least I'm trying to do my part. This isn't to say that we shouldn't try to effect quick and significant change, just that we should take a long-term view and not give up if at first we don't succeed.

Check out the article The Arithmetic of Compassion and the related website if you are interested in a take on a scientifically informed and effective attitude of compassion.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Tue May 02, 2017 7:01 am

Greetings,

From a global perspective I was originally quite concerned about climate change. Going in, I acknowledged that the field of climate study was embryonic and if weather forecasters struggle to accurately forecast the weather a week in advance, then how could they accurately predict such matters? If they could not know for sure, then a layman like me could not possibly know for sure. The diversity in predictions about the timescales and severity of climate change was commensurate with the uncertainty involved. Nonetheless, I was content to defer to the judgement that there must be something in it.

In time, climate change came to be politicized by both sides of politics, with advocacy coming from the left. It's not difficult to discern the political motives of those on each side, but as I had traditionally associated with the left of politics, I was happy to remain concerned about the issue.

Then came the rise of "identity politics", which fuelled hysteria, victimology and political correctness on the left, in pursuit of political advantage. At this point, I began to question what I had been content to assume up until that time. Were people just telling us "the science is settled" so that we stop doubting the claims? Were climate scientists over-hyping the threat in order to further their own careers or the industry upon which they had become dependent? How far had the science really progressed and how much of whatever was observed could reasonably be attributed to man-made influence, as opposed to natural climatic change? How much is just panic from those predisposed to anxiety and catastrophizing? Is this simply the latest instance of "the end of the world is nigh"? How much was just about virtue signalling and finding avenues to impugn politicians that the left wanted to portray as being out of touch or lacking in compassion for future generations?

Many questions, more than ever before and I still don't know the answers to any of them. If someone tells you they know the answers one way or another with any degree of certainty, chances are because it's actually because they want to further their personal or political agenda.

Thus, being clueless about the matter from a global perspective, I set that aside and take Disciple's lead in appreciating whatever warmth may come my way.

8-)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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robertk
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by robertk » Tue May 02, 2017 7:26 am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -due-snow/
Heavy snow forces postponement of People’s Climate March rally in Colorado
:tongue:

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Kim OHara
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 7:35 am

Hi, Paul,
This -
retrofuturist wrote:If someone tells you they know the answers one way or another with any degree of certainty, chances are because it's actually because they want to further their personal or political agenda.
- seems to be your central reason for disbelieving everyone. Do you feel the same way about someone telling you they know the answers about (e.g.) the composition of common salt, the time the sun is likely to rise tomorrow morning, the fuel consumption of the car you're planning to buy, the cost of a litre of milk?
I'm sure you don't.
Why not?
Because you listen to people with expertise rather than people with axes to grind.
retrofuturist wrote: Many questions, more than ever before and I still don't know the answers to any of them.
So do the same with climate science: listen to the experts.
https://climate.nasa.gov
https://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/
https://www.climate.gov/maps-data
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/#t ... timeseries
(In particular, play with the climate trend maps on that last site until you understand their implications.)

The bottom line is that we do have a problem and if we do nothing about it, we will have a really big problem (you will, anyway - I'm older so I may escape the worst of it by dying first). And it's a social justice problem, a moral problem, because it will hit the poorest people hardest: droughts in sub-Saharan Africe, cyclones in the Philippines and Bangla Desh, etc.

:thinking:
Kim

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retrofuturist
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Tue May 02, 2017 7:45 am

Greetings Kim,

I only have limited time and effort, and as per my earlier comment, the inherent complexity in climate modelling precludes having any detailed understanding, without massive upfront investment.

Given that I, as a single person, have virtually zero impact over climate change, I cannot personally justify that investment of time and effort.

That is not to say that large entities, such as the UN, nations etc. should not undertake such investigation, but the time/effort to impact ratio for me as an individual just doesn't warrant my personal investigation into such matters.
Because you listen to people with expertise rather than people with axes to grind.
When the people with expertise arguably often have axes to grind, or at least personal, political and professional agendas to fulfil, that precludes pretty much everyone.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Kim OHara
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 7:46 am

robertk wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -due-snow/
Heavy snow forces postponement of People’s Climate March rally in Colorado
:tongue:
...providing climate skeptics with a good chuckle.
Indeed.
But, as Hansen showed in 2012, climate change increases variability at both ends of the range, although it is skewed towards the high end - i.e. we're seeing far more maximum-temp records falling than minimum-temp.

:coffee:
Kim

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Kim OHara
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 02, 2017 7:52 am

retrofuturist wrote:When the people with expertise arguably often have axes to grind, or at least personal and professional agendas to fulfil, that precludes pretty much everyone.
Hi, Paul,
Doesn't that apply equally to doctors, dentists, chemists, engineers, vets, teachers, mechanics ... everyone with any expertise?
Do you distrust all of them for the same reason?
If not, why not?

:thinking:
Kim

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retrofuturist
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Re: Changes in attitudes towards global warming

Post by retrofuturist » Tue May 02, 2017 8:00 am

Greetings Kim,
Kim OHara wrote:Doesn't that apply equally to doctors, dentists, chemists, engineers, vets, teachers, mechanics ... everyone with any expertise?
No, because with those people you can make recourse to the quality outcomes of the work in order to determine their aptitude.

Does the doctor have a good success rate at diagnosing illness?
Does the vet manage to save lives without charging exorbitant fees?
Do the engineer's bridges and buildings collapse?
Do the mechanic's customers find satisfaction with their work?

All these things are (to at least some degree) quantifiable and assessable by the lay person. Some of it you can learn just by going to Google Reviews, or asking for a few references.

That is not the case with climate change. For all we know as laypeople, we may as well be having a chat with Nostradamus back in the day and listening to his prophecies... we'd be equally oblivious to the accuracy or falsity of his predictions.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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