POTUS 2017

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cjmacie
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POTUS 2017

Post by cjmacie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:02 pm

If I may be so bold, and not wanting to take away from "POTUS 2016, part 3"'s bid to become maybe the longest running thread ever (nearing 2000 posts), but POTUS 2016 was, after-all, Barack Obama, and this is now 2017, two months now and running in the term of Donald Trump.

Here's an article/analysis to kick things off from more the here-and-now:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 24138.html

I neither believe nor disbelieve the author's ideas, but find the framework representative of a lot of what's been voiced around here -- the far-right vs progressive drama of the times, and/or debating what in fact the terms of debate, the ideals or factors of the "reality" framework actually are.

Another factor that made this article seem relevant is having followed the reporting of Frau Chancellor Merkel's recent visit with Pres. Trump, and noting the stark contrast of style, so to speak, between the two leaders. And, btw, between the German reporters and the Americans at the press conference.

One perspective apparent in the news recently -- the new developments of inter-personal drama among the world "leaders". Trump is, as usual, all over the place ( e.g. Twitter, news media,...). Vladimir Putin is s/w laying low, as also those like "Bibi" Netanyahu. The other major current star may well be Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his verbal war on those Nazi regimes in the Netherlands and the Republic of Germany. And there was the eletcion in the Netherlands, and there's also Prime Minister (UK) Theresa May, who's about to cross the Rubicon, and, one might wonder, does she have what it takes to handle this?

Interesting side-show: Scotland's Prime Minister Nicola Sturgeon, pushing for a vote to rescue Scotland from Brexit. One commentary seen on that -- if so, will "Great Britain" be reduced to just "Little England"?
:coffee:

Edit: Eygpt-->Turkey
Last edited by cjmacie on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

perkele
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by perkele » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:14 pm

cjmacie wrote:The other major current star may well be Egypt's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his verbal war on those Nazi regimes in the Netherlands and the Republic of Germany.
That's not Egypt's but Turkey's current president and prospective dictator.

(As for the rest, I have not read it carefully and have no input or opinion to offer on anything of it, just wanted to add this little correction.)

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Buddha Vacana » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:16 pm

cjmacie wrote:Egypt's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
Actually it is Turkey's Erdogan

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cjmacie
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by cjmacie » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:28 am

perkele wrote:
cjmacie wrote:The other major current star may well be Egypt's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his verbal war on those Nazi regimes in the Netherlands and the Republic of Germany.
That's not Egypt's but Turkey's current president and prospective dictator.

(As for the rest, I have not read it carefully and have no input or opinion to offer on anything of it, just wanted to add this little correction.)
Right. Thanks.
Late night writings should be checked again after a good night's sleep.

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cjmacie
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by cjmacie » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:20 am

Have these articles been brought up here yet? (haven't followed everything in detail)

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... -trump-win

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... presidency

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Mr Man » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:55 am

Hi cjmacie
I haven't seen them on here but had seen them. I think both articles are worth reading as is the first article you posted.

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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Buddha Vacana » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:59 pm


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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:50 pm

GOP lawmaker: Trump communications may have been 'monitored' (AP)

This can be done legally as long as the collection is incidental, i.e. via the surveillance of the foreign offical, not explicitly any US citizen. Still no immediate evidence of an order to "tap Trump tower" however. The information was found to be "widely disseminated" in reports. This lack of single point of collection is consistent with "routine" surveillance. Not quite a smoking gun for me, but indeed a bit hotter.
...[Devin] Nunes [R-Calif.] notably did not appear alongside Rep. Adam Schiff, the intelligence committee's top Democrat. A Schiff spokesman said Nunes had not informed his Democratic counterpart before disclosing the new information publicly.
Savage. :stirthepot:

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Mr Man » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:00 pm

SDC wrote:GOP lawmaker: Trump communications may have been 'monitored' (AP)

This can be done legally as long as the collection is incidental, i.e. via the surveillance of the foreign offical, not explicitly any US citizen. Still no immediate evidence of an order to "tap Trump tower" however. The information was found to be "widely disseminated" in reports. This lack of single point of collection is consistent with "routine" surveillance. Not quite a smoking gun for me, but indeed a bit hotter.
...[Devin] Nunes [R-Calif.] notably did not appear alongside Rep. Adam Schiff, the intelligence committee's top Democrat. A Schiff spokesman said Nunes had not informed his Democratic counterpart before disclosing the new information publicly.
Savage. :stirthepot:
Hi SDC
If the collection was incidental I wonder who the target was. Is Nunes leaking information?

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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:08 pm

Mr Man wrote: Hi SDC
If the collection was incidental I wonder who the target was. Is Nunes leaking information?
As the law states it must always be the foreign official; and appears to happen quite frequently. So even if a specific official was targeted, it seems like it would be difficult to ever "prove" the American counterpart was the intended target.

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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:17 pm

Phena wrote:So not only has James Comey now driven the final nail into heart of the blatant fabrications of Trump claiming that Obama "tapped" him, but he has also admitted that Trump-Russia collusion is being investigated by FBI, Comey confirms:
FBI director James Comey has said there was no basis for Donald Trump’s claims to have been wiretapped by Barack Obama, but confirmed for the first time that the agency is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Moscow to influence the outcome of the presidential election.

Comey had previously refused to comment on the existence of any such investigation but addressing the House intelligence committee, Comey reversed course and said he had been authorised to depart from that policy and give some basic details.

Comey’s appearance, flanked by the NSA director, Adm Michael Rogers, marked a remarkable and unprecedented threshold in US political history, putting beyond doubt that a sitting’s president’s entourage was under investigation for possibly conniving with a foreign adversary to put that president in power.

What made the moment even more extraordinary was Trump’s tweeted commentary on – and misrepresenting of – the hearing as it was happening.
Comey and Rogers refused to answer scores of questions speculating on who in Trump’s orbit could be part of the wide-ranging investigation and spurned countless invitations to comment on news reports. But they made many key points over the course of several extraordinary hours of testimony.

• The counter-intelligence investigation into Trump-Moscow links began in late July 2016 and is still ongoing
• More than one person associated with the Trump campaign is under investigation for their ties to the Russian government
• Both FBI and NSA directors said there was no information to support Trump’s claims that he had been wiretapped by the Obama administration
• The NSA chief rejected White House suggestions that GCHQ had helped the Obama administration spy on Trump Tower and said the claim was “frustrating to a key ally”
• The Russian intervention in the election was “unusually loud”, as if Moscow did not care about being caught

Comey repeatedly stressed the unusual nature of the occasion, which led him to break with longstanding FBI practice of never commenting on ongoing investigations.
If and when this investigation begins to gain momentum and put heat on Trump and his administration, we can expect to see a lot more sensational tweets and leaking of tax returns, etc for distraction purposes. Hopefully the media will not be as gullible this time.
Phena, I moved this here because we decided to close the other thread once this one was started.

Here is what I had posted there:
---------------------------------------------------------
Phena wrote:So not only has James Comey now driven the final nail into heart of the blatant fabrications of Trump claiming that Obama "tapped" him...
Final nail as far as the FBI is concerned.

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by pulga » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:38 pm

Apparently the surveillance had nothing to do with Russia. It will be interesting to find out how it was related to foreign intelligence, and how President Trump and his associates tie into the reports. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of criminal behavior.


Phena
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Phena » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:22 am

SDC wrote:
Phena wrote:So not only has James Comey now driven the final nail into heart of the blatant fabrications of Trump claiming that Obama "tapped" him, but he has also admitted that Trump-Russia collusion is being investigated by FBI, Comey confirms:
FBI director James Comey has said there was no basis for Donald Trump’s claims to have been wiretapped by Barack Obama, but confirmed for the first time that the agency is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Moscow to influence the outcome of the presidential election.

Comey had previously refused to comment on the existence of any such investigation but addressing the House intelligence committee, Comey reversed course and said he had been authorised to depart from that policy and give some basic details.

Comey’s appearance, flanked by the NSA director, Adm Michael Rogers, marked a remarkable and unprecedented threshold in US political history, putting beyond doubt that a sitting’s president’s entourage was under investigation for possibly conniving with a foreign adversary to put that president in power.

What made the moment even more extraordinary was Trump’s tweeted commentary on – and misrepresenting of – the hearing as it was happening.
Comey and Rogers refused to answer scores of questions speculating on who in Trump’s orbit could be part of the wide-ranging investigation and spurned countless invitations to comment on news reports. But they made many key points over the course of several extraordinary hours of testimony.

• The counter-intelligence investigation into Trump-Moscow links began in late July 2016 and is still ongoing
• More than one person associated with the Trump campaign is under investigation for their ties to the Russian government
• Both FBI and NSA directors said there was no information to support Trump’s claims that he had been wiretapped by the Obama administration
• The NSA chief rejected White House suggestions that GCHQ had helped the Obama administration spy on Trump Tower and said the claim was “frustrating to a key ally”
• The Russian intervention in the election was “unusually loud”, as if Moscow did not care about being caught

Comey repeatedly stressed the unusual nature of the occasion, which led him to break with longstanding FBI practice of never commenting on ongoing investigations.
If and when this investigation begins to gain momentum and put heat on Trump and his administration, we can expect to see a lot more sensational tweets and leaking of tax returns, etc for distraction purposes. Hopefully the media will not be as gullible this time.
Phena, I moved this here because we decided to close the other thread once this one was started.

Here is what I had posted there:
---------------------------------------------------------
Phena wrote:So not only has James Comey now driven the final nail into heart of the blatant fabrications of Trump claiming that Obama "tapped" him...
Final nail as far as the FBI is concerned.
Good to see SDC. Let's have Trump's dishonesty front and centre again. All for it.

P.S. I'm a little sad to see the POTUS 2016, part 3 go. I was hoping it would crack the ton. I think it should be pinned for posterity :D

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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:18 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:52 am

Greetings,

:lol:

Image

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:59 am

Phena wrote: Good to see SDC. Let's have Trump's dishonesty front and centre again. All for it.
I do hope he is wrong. I really do. This would be a gigantic embarrassment.
Phena wrote: P.S. I'm a little sad to see the POTUS 2016, part 3 go. I was hoping it would crack the ton. I think it should be pinned for posterity :D
Gonna miss it too. That thread was legend. I guess this was a smart move though.

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by chownah » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:11 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Interesting reading re: surveillance investigation (PDF).

Metta,
Paul. :)
If you find that interesting this will probably keep you enthralled for weeks:
http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/
This is a site run by the author of the "interesting reading" you recommend.
Freedom Watch Inc. is in the business of spreading freedom all around the world (by their own admissions) and usually this means having a strong military......best way to spread freedom is to send in the marines.....america has proven this time and again throughout history.
chownah
Last edited by chownah on Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by chownah » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:14 am

SDC wrote:.
Phena wrote: P.S. I'm a little sad to see the POTUS 2016, part 3 go. I was hoping it would crack the ton. I think it should be pinned for posterity :D
Gonna miss it too. That thread was legend. I guess this was a smart move though.
It was only a smart move for those who said really stupid things there and will be really relieved when it fades off into oblivion. Personally, I am a bit sad that the wisdom I ensconsed there will soon be lost.
You think I'm joking, don't you.
chownah

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by pulga » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:17 am

Bob Woodward's thoughts on the surveillance.


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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:21 am

chownah wrote: It was only a smart move for those who said really stupid things there and will be really relieved when it fades off into oblivion. Personally, I am a bit sad that the wisdom I ensconsed there will soon be lost.
You think I'm joking, don't you.
chownah
Why would anyone joke about all that epic nature footage you supplied us with your sea-lioning? :smile:

But in your defense: far less so as the thread went on. You kept it honest. Now say something annoying so I can balance out this compliment with some ridicule, please.

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