POTUS 2017

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
Locked
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:46 am

i actually voted for trump, but when i heard today on tv that he is outright trying to implement a ban on transgenders in the military, i am outright against this president. not that i support the military in regards to war, but they are useful when there are natural disasters. no one should be banned from serving in that regard
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

Justsit
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Justsit » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:10 pm

Maitri wrote: I can't believe the fever pitch reactions people have to Trump over literally nothing
Ever see a Trump rally? :tongue:

Seriously, millions of people losing their health insurance and their civil rights, collusion with foreign governments, attempts to circumvent the rule of law, nepotism, gross misogyny, blatant lying - hardly nothing.

User avatar
Maitri
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:43 am
Location: United States of America

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Maitri » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:10 am

Dhammomhi wrote:i actually voted for trump, but when i heard today on tv that he is outright trying to implement a ban on transgenders in the military, i am outright against this president. not that i support the military in regards to war, but they are useful when there are natural disasters. no one should be banned from serving in that regard
People need to understand that the military is not a respite home caring for individuals. There are many medical reasons that a person may not join or be relieved from their duty. The military is looking for fit, healthy individuals. You can be disqualified for being too fat, for depression, for bad knees or a whole host of other issues. No one has a "right" to serve in the military.

Besides this "ban" is a reinstatement of a previous ban that was lifted back in June last year. It hasn't been as though transgender people have been serving for years and years in the military. This is a reversal of a previous ban. I don't know if many of these people rallying for transgender people to serve have actually been in the military or are just frothing off about the newest thing to be upset about which doesn't affect them in the least.
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

User avatar
Maitri
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:43 am
Location: United States of America

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Maitri » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:32 am

Justsit wrote:
Maitri wrote: I can't believe the fever pitch reactions people have to Trump over literally nothing
Ever see a Trump rally? :tongue:

Seriously, millions of people losing their health insurance and their civil rights, collusion with foreign governments, attempts to circumvent the rule of law, nepotism, gross misogyny, blatant lying - hardly nothing.
Who has lost their civil rights?What are these "millions" of U.S. citizens who have lost their civil rights? I'm curious to know American citizens who have had their constitutional rights taken away. Remember, illegal immigrants and foreign nationals aren't U.S. citizens. They are not covered by the same laws that guarantee citizens the same rights.

Health insurance isn't a right and if you want the government to be involved with your health insurance and care- this is what you get. A giant mess. Obamacare has been a disaster for the health insurance system and is another bloated program riding off the backs of increasing premiums. The massive debt the government is in can not continue.

The rest of your post is beautiful naive. "Muh Russia" cries have gone no where for 6 months. Let's pretend that the collusion of multi-national business are far more of a threat than old, tired Soviet era scare tactics.
Image

You think our government hasn't been colluding with other foreign nationals for sometime? Or doesn't lie to you on a daily basis under every administration? Trump just ended the CIA program of arming Syrian rebels. This type of "nation building" by neo-cons is the day to day business for them. So much of our tax dollars are funneled into this endless game. The entire system is a disgusting boil of greed, nepotism, and circumvention of law. Obama was just a slicker version and said all the right words to keep his base appeased.

Tulsi Gaabbard(D) has fought for ages to stop the CIA from literally colluding and arming terrorists:
http://theduran.com/congresswoman-tulsi ... rists-act/
This arming was done under Obama and Trump stopped it. So how about instead of getting into a fever pitch drummed up by BS media sources, we sit back and critique what is going on from all sides. There is more than enough blame to go around, I'm sure.
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

chownah
Posts: 7327
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by chownah » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:11 am

Maitri wrote: I'm curious to know American citizens who have had their constitutional rights taken away. Remember, illegal immigrants and foreign nationals aren't U.S. citizens. They are not covered by the same laws that guarantee citizens the same rights.
Do Noncitizens Have Constitutional Rights?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ights.html
Attorney General John Ashcroft wants the power to lock up immigrants suspected of terrorism and hold them indefinitely. Wouldn't this violate the Constitution?

Not necessarily. True, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. This fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild outlines a host of rights afforded to immigrants and citizens alike. (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)

But immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would be unacceptable if applied to citizens.
chownah

User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:51 am

Maitri wrote:
Dhammomhi wrote:i actually voted for trump, but when i heard today on tv that he is outright trying to implement a ban on transgenders in the military, i am outright against this president. not that i support the military in regards to war, but they are useful when there are natural disasters. no one should be banned from serving in that regard
People need to understand that the military is not a respite home caring for individuals. There are many medical reasons that a person may not join or be relieved from their duty. The military is looking for fit, healthy individuals. You can be disqualified for being too fat, for depression, for bad knees or a whole host of other issues. No one has a "right" to serve in the military.

Besides this "ban" is a reinstatement of a previous ban that was lifted back in June last year. It hasn't been as though transgender people have been serving for years and years in the military. This is a reversal of a previous ban. I don't know if many of these people rallying for transgender people to serve have actually been in the military or are just frothing off about the newest thing to be upset about which doesn't affect them in the least.
in any regard tho? i don't know how unhealthy inherently all transgender people must be, but there is definitely misunderstanding. undergoing hormone therapy and having a surgery doesn't make one incapable or else there wouldn't be transgender athletes, who have been shown to excel in some cases. then, how is gender identity determined? is it like 'don't ask, don't tell' or is it just a ban on people trying to transition. anyway, i don't want aversion to arise from the discussion, just saying i think you have an unnuanced view.
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Santi253 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:41 pm

Dhammomhi wrote:no one should be banned from serving in that regard
If this is the only thing Trump has done that you disagree with, I question your sincerity. Discriminating against Muslims and Hispanics was okay? Degrading women was okay? :shrug:
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

User avatar
Maitri
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:43 am
Location: United States of America

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Maitri » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:38 am

in any regard tho? i don't know how unhealthy inherently all transgender people must be, but there is definitely misunderstanding. undergoing hormone therapy and having a surgery doesn't make one incapable or else there wouldn't be transgender athletes, who have been shown to excel in some cases.
LOL They "excel" because they are essentially competing men against women. Or women taking male hormones. The Soviets knew this back in the 70's and 80's with their female athletes. Athletics is not the same as being in combat. I don't think that requiring vaginal dilation in a combat zone is really a good idea (remember that post-op not "women" can now serve in combat) or having to take hormone injection in combat. Diabetics are banned from joining the military and can't be insulin dependent in service. Does that mean Trump hates diabetics?

Besides,I thought all leftists were anti-military and war anyways- now they want everyone to join an institution they routinely pillory.
then, how is gender identity determined? is it like 'don't ask, don't tell' or is it just a ban on people trying to transition. anyway, i don't want aversion to arise from the discussion, just saying i think you have an unnuanced view.
Apparently gender is determined by Tumblr these days as people seem to forgot that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder as defined by the DSM V. A healthy person doesn't want to sever their penis or remove their vagina, or leg or any other body part. I fail to see how such a statement is shocking in the least. There are many people med boarded out of service due to mental or other physical illness or not permitted to join in the first place.I don't need to have nuanced to know that this stuff with "transgender" has been become overly politicized out of proportion the number of people affected. By the way people are acting, you'd think the entire military is endangered of being emptied.
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

User avatar
Maitri
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:43 am
Location: United States of America

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Maitri » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:44 am

chownah wrote:
Maitri wrote: I'm curious to know American citizens who have had their constitutional rights taken away. Remember, illegal immigrants and foreign nationals aren't U.S. citizens. They are not covered by the same laws that guarantee citizens the same rights.
Do Noncitizens Have Constitutional Rights?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ights.html
Attorney General John Ashcroft wants the power to lock up immigrants suspected of terrorism and hold them indefinitely. Wouldn't this violate the Constitution?

Not necessarily. True, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. This fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild outlines a host of rights afforded to immigrants and citizens alike. (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)

But immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would be unacceptable if applied to citizens.
chownah

Yes, and deporting illegal immigrants is conducted under due process rights as appropriate. This is why it is taking such an inordinate amount of time to carry this out. You aren't going to find any sympathy from me for people who have stayed in my country illegally. They chose to enter come here under those circumstances and they can face the consequences. America is a land of rules and laws. You want to come here? The follow the law like all the legal people who came here. When I travel to another country, I agree to abide by their laws and leave when I must. If I break a law or overstay my visa, then I would have to expect a consequence.

Globalists just want the 1st world to have no borders and let everyone in who wants to come in. Sorry, no.

If you are talking about the travel ban, that has made it's way through the court systems and is pending review by the Supreme Court. That is due process for legal review.
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:23 am

Santi253 wrote:
Dhammomhi wrote:no one should be banned from serving in that regard
If this is the only thing Trump has done that you disagree with, I question your sincerity. Discriminating against Muslims and Hispanics was okay? Degrading women was okay? :shrug:
i mean, i feel like this is going to become an argument, but i disagree that he has discriminated against latinos or muslims; he might have said hurtful things, but so far he hasn't put in any real policy to those effects
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:25 am

i didn't read much of your post maitri because it was unpleasant, but if a transgender athlete can compete with women, then they can compete with women in the military. not seeing enough logic on your end
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

Buddha Vacana
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:45 am

Maitri wrote:You aren't going to find any sympathy from me for people who have stayed in my country illegally.
This sounds a bit out of place on a Buddhist forum. Unsurprising though among supporters of certain sectors of the political spectrum that are inherently at odds with the spirit or universal good will.
They chose to enter come here under those circumstances and they can face the consequences. America is a land of rules and laws. You want to come here? The follow the law like all the legal people who came here. When I travel to another country, I agree to abide by their laws and leave when I must.
Do you think it's funny for people to leave everything they know behind to go live in a foreign and legally, if not socially, hostile country?
First of all remember that following your logic, you should all be under indigenous law. Remember also or else get educated about how much your country has contributed to dictatures and poverty anywhere south of its border and remember that getting and staying wealthy at the expense of the people in other countries comes with a price. The compassionate and comprehensive solution is, instead of arguing to order all those people out, back to whichever hell on earth they come from, is to make sure that they can live a livable life in their home country, which entails stopping the America First ideology and starting to plan for a harmonious world where people in difficult situations are taken care of rather than left to their own devices, which include getting the hell out of where they are from and trying to survive in a relatively livable place, even if it is illegal. You will surely think, if not say, that this is not the responsibility of your government. Well, it is in various ways and to a certain extent. But that's a whole other discussion in its own right.
Globalists just want the 1st world to have no borders and let everyone in who wants to come in. Sorry, no.
Some people you would probably label as "globalists" argue in favor a world where noone needs to flee their own country, rather than a world where 8 people own as much as the poorest 50% of humanity. This is not just an "us or them" situation. We need to all work together to make the world a more livable place for everyone. True compassion doesn't stop at the borders of your country nor at those who find themselves technically on the safe side of its laws, even if its culture screams the opposite in your ears on a daily basis.

Grab the snake by its neck, not by its tail.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by lyndon taylor » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:36 am

90+% of the "illegal" immigrants coming across the Mexican border are at least part native North American Indian, so in my opinion they actually have more right to be here than white European descent Americans, get over it, you wouldn't have food on your table if it wasn't for those poor immigrants working their butts of so you can have affordable food. People that hate immigrants need to go back to Europe where they came from IMHO.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Phena
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:40 am

Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by Phena » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:09 am

Maitri wrote:Yes, and deporting illegal immigrants is conducted under due process rights as appropriate. This is why it is taking such an inordinate amount of time to carry this out. You aren't going to find any sympathy from me for people who have stayed in my country illegally. They chose to enter come here under those circumstances and they can face the consequences. America is a land of rules and laws. You want to come here? The follow the law like all the legal people who came here. When I travel to another country, I agree to abide by their laws and leave when I must. If I break a law or overstay my visa, then I would have to expect a consequence.

Globalists just want the 1st world to have no borders and let everyone in who wants to come in. Sorry, no.

If you are talking about the travel ban, that has made it's way through the court systems and is pending review by the Supreme Court. That is due process for legal review.
Remember, illegal immigrants and foreign nationals aren't U.S. citizens. They are not covered by the same laws that guarantee citizens the same rights.

Health insurance isn't a right and if you want the government to be involved with your health insurance and care- this is what you get.
Apparently gender is determined by Tumblr these days as people seem to forgot that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder as defined by the DSM V. A healthy person doesn't want to sever their penis or remove their vagina, or leg or any other body part. I fail to see how such a statement is shocking in the least. There are many people med boarded out of service due to mental or other physical illness or not permitted to join in the first place.I don't need to have nuanced to know that this stuff with "transgender" has been become overly politicized out of proportion the number of people affected. By the way people are acting, you'd think the entire military is endangered of being emptied.
Are your avatar and tagline ironic, or are you just unaware of your extreme and pernicious views?

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3332
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Mr Man » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:12 am

Re: POTUS 2017

It's looking like a bit of a shambles from here.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 19 guests