The False Song of Globalism

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retrofuturist
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The False Song of Globalism

Post by retrofuturist »

[Adapted and split from Future resolution of division in US society ]

Greetings,
SDC wrote:I know there has been staunch opposition to the idea that these opposing positions have, in a sense, created each other....
It could be that, and to a certain degree it probably is, but I was actually thinking of something other than that. I'll explain it briefly here, although a brief summary won't really do it justice. As it's a big topic, subsequent discussion may be required....

In short, I think that instead of directly fighting the narrative of the traditional left, the global capital class have learned how to co-opt the ideology and language of the left, such that they have now re-framed the mainstream left's position in a way that serves their own economic and political agendas, whilst simultaneously placating people's emotional needs through the redefinition of what constitutes 'justice'.

In essence, they have attempted to subsume the left through social engineering and the false song of globalism - some have noticed the impact of this infiltration, others not yet. Therein lies the divide, but once it has been seen, it cannot be unseen.

(I'll leave you with that theory for a while, because it plays out in all manner of ways, and can be used as a model to shed light on all manner of domestic and global issues. I'd rather you "connect the dots" yourself and see if it makes sense to you, than to take it or reject it upon my say so.

Maybe you can apply it to work out who sabotaged Bernie Sanders and why? Maybe you can work out why Super PACs yield so much comparative influence in the DNC nomination process? Maybe you can work out why Clinton had so much money behind her, when supposedly the Republicans are the rich man's party? Maybe you can work out why the mainstream media have acted as they have both before and after Trump's election? ;) They're interesting questions, because they're unanswerable by the traditional left vs right analysis)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by Phena »

retrofuturist wrote:In short, I think that instead of directly fighting the narrative of the traditional left, the global capital class have learned how to co-opt the ideology and language of the left, such that they have now re-framed the mainstream left's position in a way that serves their own economic and political agendas, whilst simultaneously placating people's emotional needs through the redefinition of what constitutes 'justice'.

In essence, they have attempted to subsume the left through social engineering and the false song of globalism - some have noticed the impact of this infiltration, others not yet. Therein lies the divide, but once it has been seen, it cannot be unseen.
I agree with some of this retro. I agree there has been attempt by the globalists and corporations to try to "subsume" the language and ideals of the Left to weaken resistance. However, it is pretty transparent, and is why those with a modicum of discerning thought and those paying a litlle bit of attention, don't buy it. This is why the majority on the Left oppose Globalisation.

As I have noticed in previous posts retro, you try to mischaracterise and misrepresent what many on the Left actually stand for, and lump a broad spectrum all together, because it suits your Alt-right argument.
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

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Greetings Phena,
Phena wrote:However, it is pretty transparent, and is why those with a modicum of discerning thought and those paying a litlle bit of attention, don't buy it. This is why the majority on the Left oppose Globalisation.
It's good to see you have awareness of how the capital class is operating, but the left's highly emotional negative reaction to the election of a "nationist" (Trump) over a "globalist" (Clinton) undermines your conclusion. Ditto with the Brexit results. The establishment have even managed to convince many on the left that the very notion of national borders is racist and cruel! It's well known that when speaking to her financial backers, Clinton said that she dreams of a hemisphere without borders.

The capital class have now infiltrated both major parties in the US, and it's less now about who is a Democrat and who is a Republican, than it is about who is Establishment and who is anti-Establishment. Hence why, as I've said previously, I would love to have seen a Sanders vs Trump election. Alas, the Establishment would not allow that and they conspired against Sanders.
Phena wrote:As I have noticed in previous posts retro, you try to mischaracterise and misrepresent what many on the Left actually stand for, and lump a broad spectrum all together, because it suits your Alt-right argument.
That's an incredibly ironic sentiment Phena, particularly as I have nothing to do with the alt-right, nor have I ever claimed to. Rather, in the context of this discussion, I am a "nationist" (a term that Nigel Farage takes care to differentiate from the term "nationalist"). If you wish to explain further how or why the left opposes globalism, then I'd love to hear it... I admit I do not see much of it, hence having lost faith in the modern left.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by chownah »

In short, I think that instead of directly fighting the narrative of the traditional left, the global capital class have learned how to co-opt the ideology and language of the left, such that they have now re-framed the mainstream left's position in a way that serves their own economic and political agendas, whilst simultaneously placating people's emotional needs
It has been coming for a very long time. This is from 1971.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VM2eLhvsSM
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:It has been coming for a very long time. This is from 1971.....
Indeed, and even longer than that. Some of it can be traced back to at least as far as World War 2 and its aftermath on the perspectives of the world's capital class and the psyche of Europe as a whole.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by DNS »

And there was the League of Nations, the UN, NATO, SEATO, etc, lots of globalism pushes for a long time now.

But with all those pressures -- Trump still won. Albeit, a narrow win, in spite of what he claims; he basically won the electoral vote by winning Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania -- an aggregate margin of victory of only about 70,000 votes.

In my younger, more idealistic times I liked globalism, however, too much power in the hands of a few leads to corruption and tyranny so now I have some reservations about it. However, there have been some benefits to globalism, for example free and fair trade has improved the conditions in many impoverished nations. Almost half a billion people (around 400 million) came out of poverty in China thanks to their adoption of capitalism and free trade. In other nations, there is less hunger and starvation. The economics might have gone down some for the U.S., but from a utilitarian position, it appears to have been a net-positive for the greatest number of people.

What other pros and cons are there to globalism vs. nation-ism?
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by Phena »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Phena,
Phena wrote:However, it is pretty transparent, and is why those with a modicum of discerning thought and those paying a litlle bit of attention, don't buy it. This is why the majority on the Left oppose Globalisation.
It's good to see you have awareness of how the capital class is operating, but the left's highly emotional negative reaction to the election of a "nationist" (Trump) over a "globalist" (Clinton) undermines your conclusion. Ditto with the Brexit results. The establishment have even managed to convince many on the left that the very notion of national borders is racist and cruel! It's well known that when speaking to her financial backers, Clinton said that she dreams of a hemisphere without borders.

The capital class have now infiltrated both major parties in the US, and it's less now about who is a Democrat and who is a Republican, than it is about who is Establishment and who is anti-Establishment. Hence why, as I've said previously, I would love to have seen a Sanders vs Trump election. Alas, the Establishment would not allow that and they conspired against Sanders.
Phena wrote:As I have noticed in previous posts retro, you try to mischaracterise and misrepresent what many on the Left actually stand for, and lump a broad spectrum all together, because it suits your Alt-right argument.
That's an incredibly ironic sentiment Phena, particularly as I have nothing to do with the alt-right, nor have I ever claimed to. Rather, in the context of this discussion, I am a "nationist" (a term that Nigel Farage takes care to differentiate from the term "nationalist"). If you wish to explain further how or why the left opposes globalism, then I'd love to hear it... I admit I do not see much of it, hence having lost faith in the modern left.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I think you are having trouble retro (and probably explains much about your mischaracterisation of the Left) because you don't understand who or what the Left actually is. Let me be clear about it. The Left is not Hilary Clinton and the Democrats. This is why you are having trouble retro. I would feel duped too if I had aligned myself with their values. No wonder you are angry. To further explore this and use a home-grown example, Bill Shorten and the ALP aren't the Left either. The ALP used to have a left-wing, now it is non-existent. The worldwide political spectrum has shifted to the Right and has been for about three decades now. However, the political spectrum in the US has always been skewed to the Right compared to other Western Democracies.

Bernie Sanders opposed Globalisation. That is more representative of a true Left-wing position. There is your example of "how or why the left opposes globalism".
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by DNS »

I googled for it and found a pretty good list of some pros and cons here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollin ... 8b2588ccce
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by Phena »

It's a pity we can't apply a more Global approach to this problem. Instead, Globalisation has become about the Cooperate Class having more conducive conditions for further expansion and world domination, and further hurling civilization into imminent catastrophe.

Record-breaking climate change pushes world into ‘uncharted territory’
The record-breaking heat that made 2016 the hottest year ever recorded has continued into 2017, pushing the world into “truly uncharted territory”, according to the World Meteorological Organisation.

The WMO’s assessment of the climate in 2016, published on Tuesday, reports unprecedented heat across the globe, exceptionally low ice at both poles and surging sea-level rise.

Global warming is largely being driven by emissions from human activities, but a strong El Niño – a natural climate cycle – added to the heat in 2016. The El Niño is now waning, but the extremes continue to be seen, with temperature records tumbling in the US in February and polar heatwaves pushing ice cover to new lows.

“Even without a strong El Niño in 2017, we are seeing other remarkable changes across the planet that are challenging the limits of our understanding of the climate system. We are now in truly uncharted territory,” said David Carlson, director of the WMO’s world climate research programme.

“Earth is a planet in upheaval due to human-caused changes in the atmosphere,” said Jeffrey Kargel, a glaciologist at the University of Arizona in the US. “In general, drastically changing conditions do not help civilisation, which thrives on stability.”
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings David,
David N. Snyder wrote:In my younger, more idealistic times I liked globalism, however, too much power in the hands of a few leads to corruption and tyranny so now I have some reservations about it.
Likewise. I was once a fan of open borders, until I came to see some of the negative implications of this arrangement. The chief structural negative of globalism is that the nation-state delegates a degree of its national sovereignty and autonomy to a super-structural entity, such as the EU for example. By doing so, acts of governance become increasingly removed from the will of the citizens that these decisions impact, and unlike the government of a nation-state, a nation cannot unelect the governance of the super-structural entity. The further divorced acts of governance become from the masses, the less that these acts of governance work for the masses. In the EU, for example, most European countries have been required to sacrifice border control, macro-economic policy, their own currencies, and in many respects their own cultures, as part of the EU's globalist push.

I'll try to pick up on the rest of your comments when I have a bit more time...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Phena,

I'm not angry. If you think I'm angry, you're mishearing what I'm saying.

I do agree with you that Hillary Clinton is not Left, but you must acknowledge that many on the Left do/did support her. She was certainly their preferred candidate vis-a-vis Trump (although Trump did appeal to the so-called "Reagan Democrats").

The problem with any classification scheme is that there are now so many dimensions at play... so much so that the traditional Left-Right spectrum accounts for only a small part of what's going on. Any simple-minded "Left is good, Right is bad" mentality is a remnant from the 20th century which is going to lead people to being manipulated against their interests.

Now there's the following dichotomies (apologies for any overlap)...

- Left vs Right (aka Socialism vs Capitalism)
- Authoritarian vs Libertarian
- Nationist vs Globalist
- Large government vs Small Government
- Western democracy vs Sharia law
- Egalitarianism vs Identitarianism
- Establishment vs Anti-establishment

... and these differences exist not just in "economic terms" but in "social terms" too, such that one could be conservative on economic matters, and liberal on social matters, or vice-versa. It's really all over the place, and with that increased diversity, where would one even try to find a "center" position on these matters?

When people say that the left is often on the right side of history, they're really talking about the left, as a counter-balance to the right. The left, when unfettered and dominant was actually an abomination in the 20th century (see Will's Victims of Communism topic for example of the horrors that arose).

To achieve the best outcomes, and to prevent the political pendulum being stuck in unhealthy extremes, there needs to be open discussion, debate, and expression of ideas from all corners of politics. Bad or failed ideas need to be open for critique, and the people need to have the power to replace what is no longer working for them.

This is why, above all else, I'm against the current assault on free speech. To get the best outcomes, all ideas need to be heard - even those that hurt people's feelings. Unfortunately hurt feelings and political correctness have been weaponized for political advantage in some quarters, and the act of criticising certain viewpoints has become a taboo act, labelled as 'divisive' or 'problematic'.

Whether left, right, or centre, the most dangerous entities of all (whether doctrine, law, religion, ideology or government) are those that are regarded as beyond reproach, and beyond accountability. Many acts of the global elite are not transparent to the masses, and being invisible to the masses, these acts are necessarily beyond critique. When any one or any thing is regarded as being beyond criticism, then corruption and the abuse of power are just around the corner... and this is especially so when it comes to "shadow governments", the "deep state" or whatever else one might choose to call these opaque forces. I look forward with anticipation to the next few years, in the hope that the forces of transparency (e.g. Wikileaks, "draining the swamp in Washington DC") may shine new light on old and deep corruptions.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by Buddha Vacana »

retrofuturist wrote: In short, I think that instead of directly fighting the narrative of the traditional left, the global capital class have learned how to co-opt the ideology and language of the left, such that they have now re-framed the mainstream left's position in a way that serves their own economic and political agendas, whilst simultaneously placating people's emotional needs through the redefinition of what constitutes 'justice'.

In essence, they have attempted to subsume the left through social engineering and the false song of globalism - some have noticed the impact of this infiltration, others not yet. Therein lies the divide, but once it has been seen, it cannot be unseen.
I would generally agree with this observation and this is in part what I tried to address in an earlier thread Why leftelists have vecome so dull. But it does not lead me to the same conclusions as the right does exactly the same without even pretending to be nice.
(I'll leave you with that theory for a while, because it plays out in all manner of ways, and can be used as a model to shed light on all manner of domestic and global issues. I'd rather you "connect the dots" yourself and see if it makes sense to you, than to take it or reject it upon my say so.

Maybe you can apply it to work out who sabotaged Bernie Sanders and why? Maybe you can work out why Super PACs yield so much comparative influence in the DNC nomination process? Maybe you can work out why Clinton had so much money behind her, when supposedly the Republicans are the rich man's party? Maybe you can work out why the mainstream media have acted as they have both before and after Trump's election? ;) They're interesting questions, because they're unanswerable by the traditional left vs right analysis)
:D
You sound like you just discovered something and you are in your reflections ahead of anyone else reading your ideas, while this is the position some have tried to explain you for weeks. But it's nice to see you're finally starting to express a broader vision on the issue.
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings BV,
Buddha Vacana wrote:You sound like you just discovered something and you are in your reflections ahead of anyone else reading your ideas, while this is the position some have tried to explain you for weeks. But it's nice to see you're finally starting to express a broader vision on the issue.
Not at all, I've known it for some time now. As for the DNC corruption, I closely followed the DNC & Podesta leaks at the time, even though Fake News CNN told me I wasn't allowed to.

:spy:

Perhaps now as people grow accustomed to President Trump, and the riots and McCarthyist cries of "Russia!" subside, what I've been saying all along might now have some chance at being heard, in the absence of immediate panic. Maybe lol.

Image

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by Buddha Vacana »

retrofuturist wrote: Not at all, I've known it for some time now.
Well then some of us should have known all along that most people here didn't need any red pills and should have pointed their finger to the real culprits rather than to their victims.
Fake News CNN told me I wasn't allowed to.
:lol:
Thank lord we still have true far-sighted rebels in ours ranks to show us what the real reality is


Image

Yeah that sounds exactly like what you think you're doing and how self-righteous and condescending some of our interlocutors are.
Last edited by Buddha Vacana on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The False Song of Globalism

Post by Phena »

There is not much in your reply that I can find any common ground for agreement with retro. I disagree with your characterisation and assessment on pretty much all of it, and some points where you are just plain wrong. However, I will agree on the below assessment you make, except with this myth of Trump "draining the swamp". It is quite amazing that two people can look at the same set of events and draw polar opposite conclusions. For me Trump just made the swamp more fetid.
retrofuturist wrote:Whether left, right, or centre, the most dangerous entities of all (whether doctrine, law, religion, ideology or government) are those that are regarded as beyond reproach, and beyond accountability. Many acts of the global elite are not transparent to the masses, and being invisible to the masses, these acts are necessarily beyond critique. When any one or any thing is regarded as being beyond criticism, then corruption and the abuse of power are just around the corner... and this is especially so when it comes to "shadow governments", the "deep state" or whatever else one might choose to call these opaque forces. I look forward with anticipation to the next few years, in the hope that the forces of transparency (e.g. Wikileaks, "draining the swamp in Washington DC") may shine new light on old and deep corruptions.
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