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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:05 pm
by Kamran
ancientbuddhism wrote:DJT owes no apology for enforcing laws others were negligent to do.
I agree with you.

But its the intention that motivates these actions that is the main concern.

For example, the Muslim travel ban does not include Saudi Arabia, but does include Iran.

That does not make sense from terrorism or national security perspective.

19 of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis, and a significant number of ISIS and jihadi terrorists are Saudis. The Iranians are not even the same religion as the jihadi terrorists.

The US is selling $100 billion worth of weapons to Saudis, some of which the UN has found end up in ISIS hands.

So what is the true motivation, what is the real objective of Trump's actions ?

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:55 pm
by ancientbuddhism
Kamran wrote:The US is selling $100 billion worth of weapons to Saudis, some of which the UN has found end up in ISIS hands.
Obama administration arms sales offers to Saudi top $115 billion: report

Trump to approve weapons packages to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain blocked by Obama

This is something that has always perplexed me too. Is it simply business or diplomacy? I expect some of both. But I suppose it is better to have your enemies inside your tent pissing out than outside pissing in.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:48 pm
by Kamran
Its part of strategic alliance aimed at containing threats to US interests.

It goes back to 1950s when Nationalist and Socialist Arab movements were sweeping away Arab monarchies like those in Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Syria...

They thought Saudi was next.

So they financed extreme right-wing Sunni bigot religious groups which have proven to be effective tools against threats to US interests including:

1) Nationalist and Socialist Arab movements (they are reactionary/anti-secular).
2) The Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
3) The Iranian Revolution (they are bigoted anti-Shia/anti-Persian)

Remember back when the secular PLO was the main threat to Israeli interests ?

Israel got rid of the PLO by financially supporting what was at that time a small right-wing bigot terrorist group called HAMAS.

I think the Jihadi Terrorists are the tools of the very reckless Americans, Saudis, and Israelis.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:48 am
by lyndon taylor
Here's a model for a successful business, you fire all your hardworking immigrant labourers, hire white trash with drug and alcohol problems who haven't held a job in years. And see if your productivity improves. The imagine doing that on a country wide basis, one big giant recipe for disaster and economic collapse.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:02 pm
by Phena
Kamran wrote:
ancientbuddhism wrote:DJT owes no apology for enforcing laws others were negligent to do.
I agree with you.

But its the intention that motivates these actions that is the main concern.

For example, the Muslim travel ban does not include Saudi Arabia, but does include Iran.

That does not make sense from terrorism or national security perspective.

19 of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis, and a significant number of ISIS and jihadi terrorists are Saudis. The Iranians are not even the same religion as the jihadi terrorists.

The US is selling $100 billion worth of weapons to Saudis, some of which the UN has found end up in ISIS hands.

So what is the true motivation, what is the real objective of Trump's actions ?
Excellent questions Kamran. Many have noticed these glaring inconsistencies. I think it can only be explained by Trump appeasing his racist and xenophobic base, but which practically achieves very little. However, as I'm sure you are aware, it is not meant to be an actual solution, but to appeal to emotion and ignorance.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:08 pm
by chownah
Who is going to pick the fruit?
chownah

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:32 pm
by ancientbuddhism
lyndon taylor wrote:Here's a model for a successful business, you fire all your hardworking immigrant labourers, hire white trash with drug and alcohol problems who haven't held a job in years. And see if your productivity improves. The imagine doing that on a country wide basis, one big giant recipe for disaster and economic collapse.
Have you ever worked a labor job? If you had you would have worked with a variety of people, including those who you aimed the unfortunate hateful and bigoted words "white trash".

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:45 pm
by pulga
Phena wrote: Many have noticed these glaring inconsistencies. I think it can only be explained by Trump appeasing his racist and xenophobic base, but which practically achieves very little. However, as I'm sure you are aware, it is not meant to be an actual solution, but to appeal to emotion and ignorance.
In December 2015, President Obama signed into law a measure placing limited restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria on or after March 1, 2011. Two months later, the Obama administration added Libya, Somalia, and Yemen to the list, in what it called an effort to address "the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters." -- CNN 30-01-2017
How the Trump administration chose the 7 countries in the immigration executive order

The list of seven countries is actually a holdover from the Obama Administration. President Trump just broadened the scope of President Obama's ban on visa-waivers. And like Obama, Trump has intimated a willingness to extend the list if need be.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:10 pm
by Zom
Here's a model for a successful business, you fire all your hardworking immigrant labourers, hire white trash with drug and alcohol problems
Soon robots will fire both white trash & immigrants -) We'll see how it's going ... )

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:29 pm
by mikenz66
chownah wrote:Who is going to pick the fruit?
You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane
All they will call you will be "deportees"

Woody Guthrie
https://genius.com/Woody-guthrie-plane- ... tee-lyrics
:heart:
Mike

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:33 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings,
ancientbuddhism wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Here's a model for a successful business, you fire all your hardworking immigrant labourers, hire white trash with drug and alcohol problems who haven't held a job in years. And see if your productivity improves. The imagine doing that on a country wide basis, one big giant recipe for disaster and economic collapse.
Have you ever worked a labor job? If you had you would have worked with a variety of people, including those who you aimed the unfortunate hateful and bigoted words "white trash".
Well said. The Buddha taught compassion as a universal or unlimited practice.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:12 pm
by Phena
pulga wrote:
Phena wrote: Many have noticed these glaring inconsistencies. I think it can only be explained by Trump appeasing his racist and xenophobic base, but which practically achieves very little. However, as I'm sure you are aware, it is not meant to be an actual solution, but to appeal to emotion and ignorance.
In December 2015, President Obama signed into law a measure placing limited restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria on or after March 1, 2011. Two months later, the Obama administration added Libya, Somalia, and Yemen to the list, in what it called an effort to address "the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters." -- CNN 30-01-2017
How the Trump administration chose the 7 countries in the immigration executive order

The list of seven countries is actually a holdover from the Obama Administration. President Trump just broadened the scope of President Obama's ban on visa-waivers. And like Obama, Trump has intimated a willingness to extend the list if need be.
"Restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, ..." is a vast difference from a ban on all citizens from these countries. I'm sure you can spot the difference here pulga.

I'm no fan of Obama though, perhaps you assumed I was. Although, after four years of Trump (if he makes it that far), I predict Obama will be looked upon as one of the great Presidents, by the mere fact he is not Trump.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:35 pm
by pulga
Phena wrote: "Restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, ..." is a vast difference from a ban on all citizens from these countries.
I agree that Trump's ban is far more strict than Obama's. I was primarily just explaining why Trump chose those seven countries, i.e. they had already been classified as terror hot spots by the Obama Administration.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:01 am
by Phena
pulga wrote:
Phena wrote: "Restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, ..." is a vast difference from a ban on all citizens from these countries.
I agree that Trump's ban is far more strict than Obama's. I was primarily just explaining why Trump chose those seven countries, i.e. they had already been classified as terror hot spots by the Obama Administration.
... and conspicuous by its absence in the the Obama list too, is Saudi Arabia. This is the point that illustrates that America cannot be taken seriously, particularly from opportunistic scoundrels, playing to the xenophobes, like Trump.

Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:33 am
by DNS
Here in the Southwest part of the U.S. (and possibly in many other parts of the U.S.) immigrants from Mexico and other Latin-American countries are an integral part of our economy. We all mutually benefit from each others' labor and get along very well. I could imagine a large part of our economy falling apart if all 11 million were forced to leave. Fortunately, that is unlikely to happen. For me personally, I don't have an issue with deporting those who commit theft and violent crimes, but for just being here and working, contributing to the economy and yes, they even pay taxes, I feel they should be allowed to stay and not be deported.

During the economic downturn a few years back, hundreds of thousands voluntarily went back when there were no jobs here. They are coming for economic opportunities and when those opportunities are no longer here, they voluntarily go back; the vast majority are here to work and contribute to American society.