Executive Action of Deportations

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retrofuturist
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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:35 am

Greetings David,

What percentage of those workers do you estimate are there and doing so legally (with the appropriate working visas etc.) and how many are there illegally?

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by DNS » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:43 am

retrofuturist wrote: What percentage of those workers do you estimate are there and doing so legally (with the appropriate working visas etc.) and how many are there illegally?
I believe it is around 75% of all working immigrants are with legal-green cards/work permits and about 25% are undocumented immigrants. It is difficult to count the real numbers since some of them are not reported. The federal government issues tax id numbers for them so that they still pay taxes, in addition to sales taxes, property taxes, etc.

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:50 am

Greetings David,

Thank you for the indicative figures.

Is it your understanding of Trump's policies that the 75% will still be allowed to do as they do, and that the remaining 25% will now either need to follow the correct channels (as followed by the other 75%) or be excluded from the U.S.?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by DNS » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:06 am

retrofuturist wrote: Is it your understanding of Trump's policies that the 75% will still be allowed to do as they do, and that the remaining 25% will now either need to follow the correct channels (as followed by the other 75%) or be excluded from the U.S.?
I'm not sure, people here are getting nervous and some of the stories could be hearsay and rumors going around. Some are worried that even those with legal papers could get deported for minor traffic violations. I think Trump is expecting the 25% to go through the normal channels, but if you're from Mexico, that's next to impossible (there is no "line" to get in when the numbers from there are so high already).

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:13 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
retrofuturist wrote: What percentage of those workers do you estimate are there and doing so legally (with the appropriate working visas etc.) and how many are there illegally?
I believe it is around 75% of all working immigrants are with legal-green cards/work permits and about 25% are undocumented immigrants. It is difficult to count the real numbers since some of them are not reported. The federal government issues tax id numbers for them so that they still pay taxes, in addition to sales taxes, property taxes, etc.
And whatever happens there will, of course, be this problem:
labor needed.jpg
labor needed.jpg (90.22 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
:namaste:
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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by pulga » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:21 am

Phena wrote: ... and conspicuous by its absence in the the Obama list too, is Saudi Arabia. This is the point that illustrates that America cannot be taken seriously, particularly from opportunistic scoundrels, playing to the xenophobes, like Trump.
I agree Saudi Arabia probably avoided the list because it is considered an ally. But it is also worth noting that expect for Iran large swathes of the countries on the list are war zones, places overwhelmed by chaos and extremism.

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by cjmacie » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:50 am

(tangentially on/off-topic)

Another curiosity in this area -- that large numbers of Iranians have settled in the USA, largely since the regime-change in the 1970's. Here in California, at least. Large, rather well-to-do communities in the LA and SF areas.

I once worked in a small company in SF owned by a guy who's father immigrated here back then, had been a high-ranking minister in the Shah's regime. He was quite cultured -- practiced, very seriously, Zoroastrian religion.

For years I patronized a hair-dresser in "Silicon Valley" who was Iranian, and learned a lot from her about the Farsi populations around here. She would travel regularly to visit her mother and other relatives back in Teheran. While attending several weekend events in the LA Westwood / UCLA area, I noticed that that area, south of and east along Wilshire Blvd is largely Iranian.

These populations aren't likely to come-up in terms of banning issues, as they represent more "allies" -- those who worked closely with American interests in a former age.

Similar the Vietnamese population here in San Jose -- "Little Saigon", said to be the largest concentration of Vietnamese outside of Viet Nam. These were largely pro-American refugees from the Communist victory back, also, in the 1970's. (btw: This population also hosts the Tathagata Meditation Center in San Jose -- an outpost of the Burmese Mahasi-Pandita organization, staffed by Burmese monks but a mostly Vietnamese congregation of "devotees" and retreat "yogis".

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by ancientbuddhism » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:19 am

Kim OHara wrote: Image
You post this meme in all seriousness? You share lyndon taylor's point of view of U.S. labor. How simple of you.
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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by ancientbuddhism » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:39 am

cjmacie wrote:(tangentially on/off-topic)

I once worked in a small company in SF owned by a guy who's father immigrated here back then, had been a high-ranking minister in the Shah's regime. He was quite cultured -- practiced, very seriously, Zoroastrian religion.
Yes. I worked in a shop with Parvīz, a co-worker that was an Iranian refugee, now U.S. citizen. He was a business owner in Theran and of the Baha'i religion. When Khomeini took over his business, land and assets were confiscated. He is one of many normal, honest immigrants.
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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:59 am

ancientbuddhism wrote:
Kim OHara wrote: ["Now Hiring"]
You post this meme in all seriousness?
Some seriousness, certainly. Historically, a primary source of cheap unskilled and semi-skilled labour has been a pool of non-white not-quite-citizens. (I will let you cast your mind over US history for the succession of groups filling the role from the cotton plantation period onwards. It's not pretty. To be fair, it's not unique to the US either.)
If that pool of labour dries up, labour costs must rise to the point at which a new pool is attracted. Consequences? Price rises of affected commodities, or the jobs going off-shore (where that's possible - and if you start importing potatoes, etc, from countries with lower labour costs, then yes, the jobs have gone off-shore - and business failures.
You share lyndon taylor's point of view of U.S. labor.
I don't know his views. If I share them, it's only by accident.
How simple of you.
Are you trying to be rude to Lyndon or to me?

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Edit: fixed formatting :embarassed:

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are at least part native North (or South) American Indians, to say they have less claim to the land than descendants of European invaders, is short sighted at best. On top of that, most illegal immigrants are residing in States that used to be part of the country of Mexico, before the American government invaded and took over major parts of their country. To claim illegal immigration is some major crime that enables long term incarceration and deportation is inhumane and criminal in and of itself. In my area, where Spanish speakers make up more than 50% of the population, immigrant labourers are the backbone of the economy, few white people are willing to work as hard for a living. And without the immigrants the economy would pretty much collapse, anarchy is what is ahead of us if right wing forces dictate our immigration policy. IMHO
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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by ancientbuddhism » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:54 am

Kim OHara wrote:
ancientbuddhism wrote:
Kim OHara wrote: ["Now Hiring"]
You post this meme in all seriousness?
Some seriousness, certainly. Historically, a primary source of cheap unskilled and semi-skilled labour has been a pool of non-white not-quite-citizens. (I will let you cast your mind over US history for the succession of groups filling the role from the cotton plantation period onwards. It's not pretty. To be fair, it's not unique to the US either.)
If that pool of labour dries up, labour costs must rise to the point at which a new pool is attracted. Consequences? Price rises of affected commodities, or the jobs going off-shore (where that's possible - and if you start importing potatoes, etc, from countries with lower labour costs, then yes, the jobs have gone off-shore - and business failures.
You share lyndon taylor's point of view of U.S. labor.
I don't know his views. If I share them, it's only by accident.
How simple of you.
Are you trying to be rude to Lyndon or to me?
I had given a reply that was fitting for both you and lyndon taylor, yet considered by DW staff as somehow outside of TOS. Your diatribe remains though. Good on you then!
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by DNS » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:39 pm

Off-topic posts regarding war have been moved to:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21602

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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by Kamran » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:34 am

US Records Lowest Birth Rate in History. More immigrants may be needed.

http://www.juancole.com/2017/02/america ... rants.html

"In 2016, the US birthrate fell to 59.6 births per 1,000 women, the lowest ever recorded.....

There is a strong possibility that Japan and the other shrinking, greying states will decline in standard of living and in global importance.

Based on the birth rate of whites, the US would join this club of the amazing shrinking and aging countries if it did not take in immigrants. And so it would lose its global position, economically and geo-strategically."
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Re: Executive Action of Deportations

Post by chownah » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:57 am

Kamran wrote:US Records Lowest Birth Rate in History. More immigrants may be needed.

http://www.juancole.com/2017/02/america ... rants.html

"In 2016, the US birthrate fell to 59.6 births per 1,000 women, the lowest ever recorded.....

There is a strong possibility that Japan and the other shrinking, greying states will decline in standard of living and in global importance.

Based on the birth rate of whites, the US would join this club of the amazing shrinking and aging countries if it did not take in immigrants. And so it would lose its global position, economically and geo-strategically."
I think there is good sentiment behind this post but realistically this is not an issue and with the continued advance of automation being driven by advanced technologies and aritificial intelligence, people will start to be considered a surplus commodity unless people start engaging with politicians to organize society so that people do not become to be seen as a surplus commodity...or worse yet as being refuse.
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