Contemporary threats to free speech

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4287
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 6:29 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:25 pm
if he didn't want to go to jail he shouldn't have broken the law.
Indeed. He doesn't seem to be all that bright. Still, the issue is bigger than one man being guilty of a specific crime. Hence the petitions, marches, and debate here.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun May 27, 2018 6:36 pm

All I see is people wanting to express support for neo nazis on the forum!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4287
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 6:38 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:36 pm
All I see is people wanting to express support for neo nazis on the forum!!
Where do you see that, Lyndon? Could you be specific?

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3362
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 6:53 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 5:40 pm
Overall, the impression is that the government want him in jail very badly indeed.
That might be the impression Sam Vara has.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3362
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 6:56 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:20 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:09 pm
From what I've read about him, jail would be a good place for him!!
Sure, one expects him to be wished harm by those who disagree with his views, but this is an issue of fairness and conspiracy. And his supporters are fearful that he will be conveniently murdered while in jail.
Do you think he has been treated unfairly?

Where is the conspiracy?

Do you think it is likely that he will be conveniently murdered while in jail?

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4287
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 7:02 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:56 pm

Do you think he has been treated unfairly?
I can't be sure, but I think he probably has.
Where is the conspiracy?
If he has been treated unfairly, then people needed to conspire to make that happen.
Do you think it is likely that he will be conveniently murdered while in jail?
I don't know about likely, but he is probably more at risk of being killed or harmed than the average prisoner arrested for Breach of the Peace, or jailed for contempt.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3362
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:02 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:56 pm

Do you think he has been treated unfairly?
I can't be sure, but I think he probably has.
And why do you think that? Do you think he wasn't in contempt of court?
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:02 pm
Where is the conspiracy?
If he has been treated unfairly, then people needed to conspire to make that happen.
And who do you think it might be that has conspired?
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:02 pm
Do you think it is likely that he will be conveniently murdered while in jail?
I don't know about likely, but he is probably more at risk of being killed or harmed than the average prisoner arrested for Breach of the Peace, or jailed for contempt.
But it isn't really that likely is it?

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4287
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 7:36 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm

And why do you think that? Do you think he wasn't in contempt of court?
If the judge says he was, then he was. He is a professional provocateur, and seems to be poorly legally advised. But the lack of fairness relates to the fact that had anyone else committed it, they would not have been jailed. He was arrested, for example, for Breach of the Peace; when there didn't appear to be one. And then charged with something else.
And who do you think it might be that has conspired?
The Government and local police force, at least. And he is of course claiming that there is a wider conspiracy of silence involving the media and the Home Office.
But it isn't really that likely is it?
He has been attacked on numerous occasions, and has received death threats, so I think murder or serious injury is a possibility.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm

The question is why do you care so much about this despicable creature??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm
And why do you think that? Do you think he wasn't in contempt of court?
He was - but doubtless someone less.. irritating to the prevailing morality would be treated less in a less heavy-handed manner.
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm
And who do you think it might be that has conspired?
The trial outside which he was filming is one which is likely to inflame tensions if it were more widely publicised. Making a stink outside the courtrooms would be a great annoyance to those wishing to preserve a conciliatory narrative.
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm
But it isn't really that likely is it?
A small chance of death is ok :thinking: ? Anyhow, the man in question is not short of enemies, so I'm not sure what you're statement is based on.

EDIT: Mr Man pointed out I quoted Sam Vara instead of Mr Man himself, which is what I meant to do.
Last edited by Pseudobabble on Sun May 27, 2018 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4287
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 7:50 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm
The question is why do you care so much about this despicable creature??
Who is it that you think "cares so much for this despicable creature"? And again, who is expressing support for neo-nazis? I don't care for him at all, and I'm not expressing support for neo-nazis. I think that his jailing - regardless of the man's character, political views, or morality - is one of those "contemporary threats to free speech" that this thread is about.

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 7:55 pm

The year is 1936. Two Germans are sitting together having a sherry after dinner. One of the Germans is a supporter of the Nazy party, but the other is not so sure about their policies on Jews. The Nazi says,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm
The question is why do you care so much about this despicable creature??
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3362
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 7:58 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:36 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm

And why do you think that? Do you think he wasn't in contempt of court?
If the judge says he was, then he was. He is a professional provocateur, and seems to be poorly legally advised. But the lack of fairness relates to the fact that had anyone else committed it, they would not have been jailed. He was arrested, for example, for Breach of the Peace; when there didn't appear to be one. And then charged with something else.
This is from 2017 "Ex-EDL leader Tommy Robinson spared jail for contempt of court"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... court.html

That he was arrested on Breach of the Peace and then charged for something else is, in my opinion, is insignificant.
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:36 pm
And who do you think it might be that has conspired?
The Government and local police force, at least. And he is of course claiming that there is a wider conspiracy of silence involving the media and the Home Office.
You think the Conservative Government is involved in a conspiracy against Tommy Robinson? Really?
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:36 pm
But it isn't really that likely is it?
He has been attacked on numerous occasions, and has received death threats, so I think murder or serious injury is a possibility.
Well it is a possibility but fairly unlikely don't you think?

User avatar
Leeuwenhoek2
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Leeuwenhoek2 » Sun May 27, 2018 8:04 pm

A good use of 3:20 listening to a psychologist who specializes in the study of morality and how moral values influence politics. It argues that free speach of a certain kind leads to more wisdom.

(11 min)
The key message is in the first 3 minutes. But you may want to hang on for the next part.
This information is highly applicable to Buddhists engaged in social/political engagement.

--------------------------------------------
I recommend both of Jonathan Haidt's books:
Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom (2006) -- makes a good case for Buddhist practice to a secular audience.

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion (2012) -- I think this book has a very important message for politically engaged Buddhists.
I'd venture the opinion that understanding this research is almost a ethical requirement for politically engaged leaders.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun May 27, 2018 8:10 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:55 pm
The year is 1936. Two Germans are sitting together having a sherry after dinner. One of the Germans is a supporter of the Nazy party, but the other is not so sure about their policies on Jews. The Nazi says,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:41 pm
The question is why do you care so much about this despicable creature??
Except you have it backwards, Robinson is the Nazi you're defending.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests