Contemporary threats to free speech

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:03 am

Greetings,



Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

alan
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by alan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:56 am

Most important threats we have to free speech now is God Dam Fox, and God Dam Breitbart, and every other right-wing Bullshit propaganda machine.
Who actually watches and believes this garbage?
Answer: God Dam Fools watch this garbage. God Dam Fools believe this garbage.

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:23 am

Greetings Alan,

Can you explain exactly how such news outlets threaten free speech?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

alan
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by alan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:17 am

By pretending to be real news, they create an audience of fools. They then say anyone else is fake.
Those fools then think that they are not alone, in all their total Bullsh*t. But, they are complete idiots.
They then make sure that audience hates anyone else who does not believe what they are being fed. It is total propaganda, and it pisses me the hell off.

alan
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by alan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:22 am

For instance, they say CNN is Fake. That is total Bullsh*t.

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:25 am

Greetings Alan,

One could just as easily say the same of the liberal mainstream media... the ones who are currently being forced into issuing retractions at a record rate due to the degradation of their journalistic independence, and increasingly opinion-based "facts". This includes Fake Jake and the crew at Fake News CNN, who are well known for inventing "sources" that simply don't exist. How much more fake can you get than that?

Nonetheless, I don't see how the co-existence of "mainstream media" and "alternative media + FOX" is in any way a threat to free speech. People are clearly free to speak and find a platform to do so, no matter how diverse their views may happen to be. Personally, I think you're over-reaching and simply bringing your hate of all things awesome into this topic, where it's not particularly relevant.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

alan
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by alan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:33 am

But you would be wrong. I hate all things fake. I love all things true.
God Dam Fox Is Fake. God Dam Breitbart is fake. Fake Sh*t pisses me off.
You are smart enough to know this, yet, still believe fake Bullsh*t.
Why?

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:39 am

I think you are both wrong because I think you are both pimping your political positions.
If free speech is important it is because it gives the widest possible source of reliable information. Anything which decreases the reliability of speech (or many times even the perceived reliability of speech) decreases free speech's ability to provide the widest possible source of reliable information.
chownah

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Mr Man
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Mr Man » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:49 am

Arrest and harassment of journalists.

International reaction to arrest of Reuters reporters in Myanmar

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myan ... SKBN1EE26T

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Bundokji
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Bundokji » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:57 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:03 am
Greetings,



Metta,
Paul. :)
This guy is a good example of how free speech can be used to attain cheap popularity
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:02 pm

Some news about universities being fined if the no platform people in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42481329?SThisFB
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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binocular
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:46 pm

A Croatian general found guilty of crimes in the Yugoslavian secession wars rejected the verdict and committed suicide in the courtroom:
On 29 November 2017, during the pronouncement of the appeal judgment against him, Praljak addressed the judges, saying: "Judges, Slobodan Praljak is not a war criminal. With disdain, I reject your verdict!"[31][32][33] He then drank what he said was poison,[31][32] leading presiding judge Carmel Agius to suspend the hearings.[11] ICTY medical staff transported Praljak to nearby HMC Hospital,[8] where he died.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Praljak
Video

The Croatian government also rejected the verdict.

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:56 pm

Also in Croatia:

Students of the seventh grade, in the course of Croatian language and literature, in secular public schools, must

-- invite Jesus into their families,
-- write a fictional interview with their priest,
-- write their own prayer to God,
-- answer the question whether they feel called to serve Christ,
-- find parts of the Gospel online that they will read to the class,

and all this regardless whether they are Christian or not.

https://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/clanak/n ... o-20171228

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:38 am

Greetings,

College Presidents Say: "Hate Speech Is Not Free Speech"

But there's no "hate speech" exception to the First Amendment.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by Disciple » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:20 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:38 am
Greetings,

College Presidents Say: "Hate Speech Is Not Free Speech"

But there's no "hate speech" exception to the First Amendment.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Should neo nazis be allowed to give speeches at colleges in your opinion?

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:25 am

Greetings,
Disciple wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:20 am
Should neo nazis be allowed to give speeches at colleges in your opinion?
Existing laws are sufficient to stop people inciting criminal activity.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by chownah » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:38 am

Should people be allowed to go to the health classes in elementary schools (years 1 to 6) and teach how to do same sex acts and to expain how good it feels and its many advantages?
chownah

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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:48 am

Greetings chownah,

No.

At university (I.e. adult age) offer what you like (within the scope of the law) and let people decide if they're interested.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

pulga
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by pulga » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:50 am

Disciple wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:20 am
Should neo nazis be allowed to give speeches at colleges in your opinion?
As the famous jurist Learned Hand once said, “Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.”
Why Even Nazis Deserve Free Speech -- By Greg Lukianoff and Nico Perrino, August 19, 2017

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binocular
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Re: Contemporary threats to free speech

Post by binocular » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:22 pm

Disciple wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:20 am
Should neo nazis be allowed to give speeches at colleges in your opinion?
I'm starting to think that all this has nothing much to do with speech per se, but with having laws at all. If a state is to have laws, then, well, it should have laws. About this or that, it doesn't seem to be all that relevant what they are about (and in fact, some very important things don't seem to be legislated at all, such as the meaning of life), as long as they are there.

The laws of a state are not produced in a systematic and comprehensive manner, but in what in hindsight appears to be an arbitrary manner that reflects the political prowess of some parties or individuals, but also a measure of luck. Moreover, since laws are not absolute and can be abolished, it's evident that their nature is relative. As such, they're not something to rely on or to build one's life upon.

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