4 charged in hate crime

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Cittasanto
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4 charged in hate crime

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:44 am

There has been a live stream on Facebook of a mentally handicapped man being beaten and tortured. I have heard several things about this but...



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... fFOSranY_g
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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SDC
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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by SDC » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:20 pm

This is a disturbing case that the media here is struggling to react to. It is clear that everyone sees how wrong it was, but the typical rhetoric is not equipped to shoulder the details and I think everyone is sort of stunned. Though just like the left habitually claims race about much more than they should, the right will follow as a matter of fact in this case. This is far deeper than race though (just like most any crime is), and while the element was clearly at play, I think it is more a sign of the levels of moral bankruptcy here in the US than anything else. And this sadistic vein has always been an issue. Always been an issue. So anyone who chimes in to say that these four teenagers are a symptom of something new either has had their head up their ass or is lucky enough not to have any firsthand experience of the underbelly of their locale. I think the majority of Americans (and I can only speak for the US) have had the luxury not to see how horrid people can be. And I do not mean on the news. I mean be there when it happens. Knowing the people that do the horrid things, knowing the people that horrid things have happened to, but more, being there and seeing horrid things happen. If they had had any of those experiences in life they would know that trying to chalk things up to race all the time is simply ridiculous.

The right always pretends to know this when the left claims racism, but watch them forget it real quick now.

pulga
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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by pulga » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:34 pm

I think the young man's being mentally handicapped had a lot to do with his abuse. There's a tendency for some to dehumanize the marginal in our society, and this brings out the worst in some of us.

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:07 pm

Has anyone seen the video???

To quote http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-chi ... story.html
But then six words the black attackers said as they assaulted their white victim changed the nature of things, sending what would normally be a local crime investigation in one of the country’s most violence-plagued cities into the national fray over a combustible mix of race, social media and the presidential election.

“F— Donald Trump” and “F— white people.”

I believe he was targeted because he was easy to get hold off and his disability is only a coincidence.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Buddha Vacana » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:52 pm

Werent they friends hanging out together and then suddenly things went south?

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:56 pm

Buddha Vacana wrote:Werent they friends hanging out together and then suddenly things went south?
I have heard they were acquaintances, i.e. they knew each other vaguely, but from the 30 mins I have seen they don't seem to of been friends and things don't seem to of gone south fast as the four seemed almost jovial through it.

This doesn't need rhetoric to call this a racial and political hate crime.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Twilight » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:08 pm

On media double standards: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265376/ ... seph-klein
The local Fox News station in Chicago reported on the incident Wednesday afternoon, providing sufficient time for the nightly network news programs to cover this obvious hate crime. Nevertheless, ABC’s World News Tonight and NBC Nightly News failed to broadcast anything about the incident Wednesday evening. Those networks waited until Thursday to cover it. CBS Evening News devoted 27 seconds to the story on Tuesday, leaving out any details about the four suspects in custody or their racist invective. Substitute anchor Josh Elliott treated the incident as merely “another horrifying attack” in a city that “just had one of its most violent years ever.”

CNN host Don Lemon treated the whole thing as misbehavior by teens who were not properly supervised by their parents. “I don’t think it’s evil,” Lemon declared. “I think these are young people and I think they have bad home training. I say, who is raising these young people? I have no idea who’s raising these young people.”

On the same CNN program, Democrat strategist and former press secretary for Bernie Sanders Symone Sanders denied that the attack was a hate crime: “We cannot callously go about, classifying things as a hate crime. Motive here matters. So, was this for hate of Donald Trump, the President-elect because of the things he has said or was this pure hate of white people? Hate crimes are because of a person’s racial ethnicity, their religion, gender, disability--- not political leanings because someone doesn’t like your political leanings so they do something bad to you, that is not a hate crime.”

The victim’s racial ethnicity was white. The blacks who beat and tortured him did so as they exclaimed “F***white people.” The victim was also disabled. Thus he had two of the defining characteristics that Ms. Sanders said could render him a victim of a hate crime. Yet, Lemon’s guest, Ms. Sanders, blamed the attack on “political leanings,” while the CNN host blamed it on bad parenting.

NBC News correspondent Ron Mott treated the crime as if it were merely a comedy of errors. He said that “because they made so many errors, if they were truly trying to be criminal, to obviously broadcast your crime is not a smart thing to do.”

The New York Times buried the story of the crime on p. 17 of its Wednesday edition. At least, the article referred to it as an “apparent racial attack,” which is more than the Associated Press’s initial report of the incident did. However, the attack apparently did not qualify for the Times’ January 5th edition of its editors’ weekly compilation of “hate crimes and harassment around the country since the election of Donald Trump.”

The Obama White House was reluctant to call the vicious racially-motivated attack a hate crime. White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said Thursday, “I think it’s too early to tell.”

As Newt Gingrich put it on Fox and Friends, "If this had been done to an African-American by four whites, every liberal in the country would be outraged and there would be no question that it is a hate crime."
I have checked CNN.com and it is reported, only that they say it was because he was disabled not because he was white. They say they did it because of hate against disabled people. But why are they not screaming "f*** all disebled people" if this was a crime against disabled people ? On MSNBC.com, the incident is not reported at all.

It is normal for people to do horrible crimes for money. But crimes that are done out of simple hate only happen because of dangerous ideologies. I think the dangerous ideology behind this new wave of hate crimes we have been seen this year is critical race theory. We also had the beating of a white man and stealing of his car and the shooting of the 5 police officers. When was the last time we had such hate crimes happening in USA ? In the 60s ?
You'll have a better chance finding a moderate rebel in Ildib than finding a buddhist who ever changed his views. Views are there to be clung to. They are there to be defended with all one's might. Whatever clinging one will removed in regards to sense pleasures by practicing the path - that should be compensated with increased clinging to views. This is the fundamental balance of the noble 8thfold path. The yin and yang.
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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by SDC » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:29 pm

Twilight wrote:When was the last time we had such hate crimes happening in USA ? In the 60s ?
There is no "last time". This is how America has always been. Not everything makes to the news. Sometimes word does not even make it that far beyond the actual incident. The problem is that the left tries to make racism everyone's problem, as if it is some national responsibility of every American to acknowledge it as often as possible. This tactic IMO has served to cover up where actual racism is in America and it's causes, which IMO go much deeper than skin color.

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Twilight » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:36 pm

Yes, racism (no matter if it's anti-white or anti-black) has always been a problem in US. But this level of hate crimes that we are seen this year is something new. There is one thing to use a racial slur or make a racist grafitti and another thing to kill 5 police officers, scalp a disabled person, etc. Can someone give an example of such hate crimes (no matter against who they are directed) prior to 2015 ?

I think this has to do with the rise of critical race theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_ ... ace_theory

This theory advocates against color-blindness and anti-racism measures used before. In my opinion, this theory is not only racist but also promoting hatred. It is also not based on any kind of scientific data, only on storytelling. It's basically marxism with "race" used instead of "class".
Last edited by Twilight on Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You'll have a better chance finding a moderate rebel in Ildib than finding a buddhist who ever changed his views. Views are there to be clung to. They are there to be defended with all one's might. Whatever clinging one will removed in regards to sense pleasures by practicing the path - that should be compensated with increased clinging to views. This is the fundamental balance of the noble 8thfold path. The yin and yang.
----------
Consciousness and no-self explained in drawings: link
How stream entry is achieved. Mahasi / Zen understanding vs Sutta understanding: link

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by SDC » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:40 pm

Twilight wrote:Yes, racism (no matter if it's anti-white or anti-black) has always been a problem in US. But this level of hate crimes that we are seen this year is something new. There is one thing to use a racial slur or make a racist grafitti and another thing to kill 5 police officers, scalp a disabled person, etc. Can someone give an example of such hate crimes (no matter against who they are directed) prior to 2015 ?
I saw a lot growing up and simply disagree with your assessment.

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Twilight » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:42 pm

I saw a lot growing up and simply disagree with your assessment.
Give me an example.

Example given by Mr. Man is simply a rape done by a white man against a black man. I am sure there are many rapes done by black man on white woman. That is not a hate crime.
You'll have a better chance finding a moderate rebel in Ildib than finding a buddhist who ever changed his views. Views are there to be clung to. They are there to be defended with all one's might. Whatever clinging one will removed in regards to sense pleasures by practicing the path - that should be compensated with increased clinging to views. This is the fundamental balance of the noble 8thfold path. The yin and yang.
----------
Consciousness and no-self explained in drawings: link
How stream entry is achieved. Mahasi / Zen understanding vs Sutta understanding: link

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SDC
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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by SDC » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:55 pm

Twilight wrote:
I saw a lot growing up and simply disagree with your assessment.
Give me an example.
That isn't the topic and even if it were I wouldn't indulge you.

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:58 pm

The Young Turks have provided some information
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTvOpszn-xY

It seems they were acquainted through school, but not friends
It is suspected he was targeted because he was mentally handicapped (I don't like this term as it doesn't indicate the extent of the "handicap")
He was dropped off at a McDonalds and soon the parents were receiving messages from the attackers via the victim's phone.

there was nothing implied about this it was an explicit act.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Twilight
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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by Twilight » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:00 pm

That isn't the topic and even if it were I wouldn't indulge you.
It is ontopic because I claimed that this wave of hate crimes is something new that has not happened since at least 1980. And I also claimed critical race theory is responsible for this new wave of hate crimes.

If you can post a link with similar racial motivated hate crimes happening in 1990 or 2005, no matter against who they are directed, then obviously I will change my mind. It would also mean my opinion about this hate crime been motivated by critical race theory is wrong.
You'll have a better chance finding a moderate rebel in Ildib than finding a buddhist who ever changed his views. Views are there to be clung to. They are there to be defended with all one's might. Whatever clinging one will removed in regards to sense pleasures by practicing the path - that should be compensated with increased clinging to views. This is the fundamental balance of the noble 8thfold path. The yin and yang.
----------
Consciousness and no-self explained in drawings: link
How stream entry is achieved. Mahasi / Zen understanding vs Sutta understanding: link

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Re: 4 charged in hate crime

Post by SDC » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:02 pm

It is okay if my posts are not convincing you. We are each entitled to our own views.

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