What does the "Red Pill" mean

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Cittasanto
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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Cittasanto » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:48 pm

srivijaya wrote:
Saoshun wrote:there are many videos which have scientific basis like women do not pay taxes (ever),
Scientific? Okay, I'll tell my tax-paying wife, sister and mother that - see how I get on eh :guns:
that women will never love you
They do but love is a two-way street. If your best chat up line is something like... "Hey babe, you're almost nice enough to make me forget you've got a lizard brain" you ain't going to get too far in matters of the heart.
you must remember this person do not have buddhist background
It's clear that they don't but what about you?
so you need to get out your safe-buddhism room into reality and see things the way they are.
That's exactly what Buddha teaches too, if you check it out. Buddha points you right at it.

:anjali:
Women have no more the brains of a lizard than men.
:goodpost:
I would be interested to see whixh video covers the science though. Should be a laugh
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

Saoshun
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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Saoshun » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:16 pm

srivijaya wrote:
Saoshun wrote:there are many videos which have scientific basis like women do not pay taxes (ever),
Scientific? Okay, I'll tell my tax-paying wife, sister and mother that - see how I get on eh :guns:
https://nkilsdonkgervais.wordpress.com/ ... taxpayers/
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:12 am

Saoshun wrote:
srivijaya wrote:
Saoshun wrote:there are many videos which have scientific basis like women do not pay taxes (ever),
Scientific? Okay, I'll tell my tax-paying wife, sister and mother that - see how I get on eh :guns:
https://nkilsdonkgervais.wordpress.com/ ... taxpayers/
So there does seem to be evidence for women (as a group) recieving more benefits... paid for by tax... and thus using the money they pay in. However, that is not the same as "women do not pay taxes (ever)". It is like the difference between wage gap and earnings gap.
I would be interested in other studies showing different countries, and a breakdown of costs to the state... One study, of one country, does not make a global phenomenon.

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Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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srivijaya
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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by srivijaya » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Cittasanto wrote: So there does seem to be evidence for women (as a group) recieving more benefits... paid for by tax... and thus using the money they pay in. However, that is not the same as "women do not pay taxes (ever)". It is like the difference between wage gap and earnings gap.
I would be interested in other studies showing different countries, and a breakdown of costs to the state... One study, of one country, does not make a global phenomenon.

Kind regards
Cittasanto
But you have to ask what the point of the thing is. He's probably involved with a money-making scheme to push this junk and sex toys across the web onto any forum that allows it. It's probably just another kind of pseudo-intellectual pay-per-click, fake news scam run out of some kid's bedroom. He probably doesn't even believe a word of it himself.

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:17 pm

srivijaya wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: So there does seem to be evidence for women (as a group) recieving more benefits... paid for by tax... and thus using the money they pay in. However, that is not the same as "women do not pay taxes (ever)". It is like the difference between wage gap and earnings gap.
I would be interested in other studies showing different countries, and a breakdown of costs to the state... One study, of one country, does not make a global phenomenon.

Kind regards
Cittasanto
But you have to ask what the point of the thing is. He's probably involved with a money-making scheme to push this junk and sex toys across the web onto any forum that allows it. It's probably just another kind of pseudo-intellectual pay-per-click, fake news scam run out of some kid's bedroom. He probably doesn't even believe a word of it himself.
Try just dealing with the arguments. Instead of accusations. I'm sure there are other such channels without sea toys.
Fake news? I don't see the onion or other similar thing. But if you are referring to click bate that mainstream media is just as guilty.

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Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

dhammarelax
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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by dhammarelax » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:52 pm

Mr Man wrote:Swallowing the Red Pill: a journey to the heart of modern misogyny

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... sphere-men

Has anyone come across the Red Pill? What is the meaning? Are there implications for our community?
In a now classical approach one would ask, are there any Sutta refferences to this?

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Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by dhammarelax » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:08 pm

I must say thought that some of the parts of the theory that the "Red Pill" has seems to be correct:

Hypergamy: "the action of marrying a person of a superior caste or class"

I have seen this in action many times, it seems women and man tend to feel attraction for a perceived superiority. Beign unaware of this fact makes you a victim of a romantic view of relathipnships while actually is an emotional commodity trade.

Shit tests: " A test that a girl performs on a male by saying or doing something to judge the reaction or response from him."

I have seen this happen many times. I think also children tend to test the limits.

Smile
Dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by srivijaya » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:12 am

Cittasanto wrote:Try just dealing with the arguments. Instead of accusations.
I totally agree with you on the solid principle of this approach but for me anyone who states that women have lizard brains and never pay tax doesn't have an argument. As I mentioned earlier, Buddha nailed the human condition very nicely and we're all equally subjected to it. I'm not a religious dogmatic and I'm open to other ways of viewing man's condition but this is so obviously divisive that it's worth taking a step back from the "content" to consider the motivation of the poster.

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by dhammarelax » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:46 am

Mr Man wrote:Hi ihrjordan

Have you seen this blog post by Bhante Sujato which discusses the "black snake"?

https://sujato.wordpress.com/2010/12/05 ... utta-true/

There are a few links and more than 100 comments.
The argument that Bhante Sujato holds in this blog post is really weird, the sutta is AN 5.230:

"Monks, there are these five dangers of a black snake. What five? It is aggressive, bears grudges, has terrible poison, is fork-tongued, and betrays friends.

Just so, monks, there are five dangers of a woman. What five? She is aggressive, bears grudges, has terrible poison, is fork-tongued, and betrays friends. Herein, monks, a woman’s terrible poison is this – generally, a woman has keen lust. A woman’s forked tongue is this – generally, a woman uses back-biting speech. A woman’s betrayal of friends is this – generally, a woman commits adultery."

His argument starts like this: "And no, I don’t think this was really spoken by the Buddha. Deal with it. What I’m interested in is to subject this text to the same elementary standard that the Buddha himself insisted on, and that we would apply to any other truth claims: does it stack up against the evidence? I assume it doesn’t, but I’d like to see the proof."

So by using this criteria we should subject all the Tipitika to the same standard, in other words if there is evidence the Buddha said it if not he didnt.

So lets start:

Life is suffering. Has anyone know of empirical tests preferably from reputable universities that prove this point? No? Well then he didnt say it. It could be a late insert due to polical tensions between the happy go lucky people who really like enjoying life and the sad people who dont. After all havent we all felt joy in our life?

MN 115 "engaging in mental misconduct might on that account, for that reason, on the dissolution of the body,after death, reappear in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, even in hell" hmm.. mental misconduct that implies that something invisible is happing no? Any empirical evidence that thought even exist? Yes?, welll then any empirical evidence that hell exists? Rebirth? The Jhanas? etc. etc. By this method we will be left with what kind of Dhamma?

The we have: "Obviously, such psychological traits are heavily conditioned by culture..", nowhere in the Sutta the Buddha mentions this, as a matter of fact all the teachings of the Buddha have at least the pretense of universality, had the Buddha meant that only women of India of that era have those traits one would have thought he would have said so, I dont see what is so obvious about considering this characteristics as cultural, does this mean that there are cultures where we dont see this?

0) a woman has keen lust
1) agessive
2) a woman uses back-biting speech
3) bear grudges
4) is adulterous

And then he refferences the studies that surely dont prove that women dont have this characteristics but that men have them as well maybe even in a higher degree.

But we seem to forget that this is not what the Sutta says, the Sutta does not say women are more lusty than men or more aggressive or more adulterous, etc. Nor does the Buddha say not on this Sutta nor elswhere that men dont have those treats, he is simlpy stating that women have those traits, this is a text book straw man argument.

Smile
Dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by srivijaya » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:04 pm

dhammarelax wrote:
In a now classical approach one would ask, are there any Sutta refferences to this?

Smile
Dhammarelax
I appreciate the humour, thought I think a lot of suttas deal with this in one way or another. I think that the peer pressure on young people of both genders has been magnified in recent years. Social media platforms and a pervasive cult of celebrity contribute, so that every aspect of a person is discussed, heightened, observed and emphasised way beyond where it should (healthily) be. I guess 'the underlying conceit to self' is constantly fed in a manner which could not have been envisaged years ago. The Red Pill etc are part of this overall strudel - feeding Dukkha - providing a quick-fix solution for some isolated young men to vent off and develop a whole world view around their resentment.

This isn't in any way to detract from the genuine pain that some people feel. The college I work for has strategies in place to deal with suicides of young people of both genders, which is disturbing and tragic. My wife teaches school kids who are on medication for depression - kids who on the face of it seem confident - many of whom also self-harm. There is a genuine displacement of people in the industrialised world who question their place (or even if they have one) in life and it's a massive issue that modern brand-slave consumerism and snappy-slogan politics is not up to addressing.

Buddha located the core of this pain, though admittedly for non-Buddhists that may seem like confirmation bias, it isn't. Which comes back around to the suttas I guess.

Sorry, I know that's not what you meant but... :shrug:

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Aloka » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:18 pm

srivijaya wrote: I think that the peer pressure on young people of both genders has been magnified in recent years. Social media platforms and a pervasive cult of celebrity contribute, so that every aspect of a person is discussed, heightened, observed and emphasised way beyond where it should (healthily) be. I guess 'the underlying conceit to self' is constantly fed in a manner which could not have been envisaged years ago. The Red Pill etc are part of this overall strudel - feeding Dukkha - providing a quick-fix solution for some isolated young men to vent off and develop a whole world view around their resentment.

This isn't in any way to detract from the genuine pain that some people feel. The college I work for has strategies in place to deal with suicides of young people of both genders, which is disturbing and tragic. My wife teaches school kids who are on medication for depression - kids who on the face of it seem confident - many of whom also self-harm. There is a genuine displacement of people in the industrialised world who question their place (or even if they have one) in life and it's a massive issue that modern brand-slave consumerism and snappy-slogan politics is not up to addressing
.

Well said. :anjali:

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:55 pm

srivijaya wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Try just dealing with the arguments. Instead of accusations.
I totally agree with you on the solid principle of this approach but for me anyone who states that women have lizard brains and never pay tax doesn't have an argument. As I mentioned earlier, Buddha nailed the human condition very nicely and we're all equally subjected to it. I'm not a religious dogmatic and I'm open to other ways of viewing man's condition but this is so obviously divisive that it's worth taking a step back from the "content" to consider the motivation of the poster.
Yes, some of the things said may be preposterous to one degree or another, and I laughed at the never pay tax, thinking it had no basis. However the no tax did have a basis, just the expression was completely wrong, please see my response to that. There was an opportunity to correct errors, and only with the dissemination of ideas and their source can errors be corrected. The motive you propose would only result in defensiveness, why cant they be interested in educating those who do not understand? Even if they are 50% wrong and extreme in some views, the ability to see them is far more beneficial than for the view to be hidden. We always have the correct view if it is never challenged.
John Stuart Mills - On Liberty Chapter 2 wrote:But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.
In Truth
Cittasanto
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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srivijaya
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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by srivijaya » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:12 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
srivijaya wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Try just dealing with the arguments. Instead of accusations.
I totally agree with you on the solid principle of this approach but for me anyone who states that women have lizard brains and never pay tax doesn't have an argument. As I mentioned earlier, Buddha nailed the human condition very nicely and we're all equally subjected to it. I'm not a religious dogmatic and I'm open to other ways of viewing man's condition but this is so obviously divisive that it's worth taking a step back from the "content" to consider the motivation of the poster.
Yes, some of the things said may be preposterous to one degree or another, and I laughed at the never pay tax, thinking it had no basis. However the no tax did have a basis, just the expression was completely wrong, please see my response to that. There was an opportunity to correct errors, and only with the dissemination of ideas and their source can errors be corrected. The motive you propose would only result in defensiveness, why cant they be interested in educating those who do not understand? Even if they are 50% wrong and extreme in some views, the ability to see them is far more beneficial than for the view to be hidden. We always have the correct view if it is never challenged.
John Stuart Mills - On Liberty Chapter 2 wrote:But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.
In Truth
Cittasanto
Please don't take anything I say as a wish to close down debate. My apologies if it came across like that.
:anjali:

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:48 pm

srivijaya wrote: Please don't take anything I say as a wish to close down debate. My apologies if it came across like that.
:anjali:
I won't and understand where you come from.

Kind Regards
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: What does the "Red Pill" mean

Post by Mr Man » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:46 am

Cittasanto wrote:
So there does seem to be evidence for women (as a group) recieving more benefits... paid for by tax... and thus using the money they pay in. However, that is not the same as "women do not pay taxes (ever)". It is like the difference between wage gap and earnings gap.
I would be interested in other studies showing different countries, and a breakdown of costs to the state... One study, of one country, does not make a global phenomenon.
The article, that is linked to, is deeply misogynistic and the data is being used to justify misogyny. That is the bottom line.

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