Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

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robertk
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by robertk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:44 am

ihrjordan wrote:This is a really touchy subject. Is it even possible to rule over a country without killing or inciting others to kill? The Buddha pondered this question and I don't recall him ever coming to a conclusion. Even Asoka caused harm after his conversion to Buddhism. (As far as I know he still permitted executions, arresting etc.)

But with that being said, this probably isn't the best piece to promote unity considering around half of this country voted for him, I'm sure some of them are Buddhists (he is against abortion after all)...He has some pros and cons but so doesn't every politician. At the end of the day, and with all due respect to Ven. Bodhi, this is probably a topic best left to political pundits and non-recluses.
yes, well said. Imho

SarathW
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by SarathW » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:24 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
SarathW wrote:There is no account of Buddha pick on any one individual though.
His opinions are general not specific.
Can you elaborate on what you meant? I think that my English has failed me. "Pick on" means "bully" to me, and I agree that the Buddha would not bully anyone.
What I meant was taking a particular individual in isolation.
Buddha did not involve with politics even though he gave general opinions.
However there are account of him criticiseing individuals in Dhamma matters only. (which is his strong hold and related to his mission)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Will
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by Will » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:58 pm

I am saddened that the Bhikkhu has been sucked into partisan political movements. In 2012 he made a video about the Occupy Wall Street movement. He describes himself as part of the progressive movement.

There have been Sangha members who have curried favor with ruling powers and those who opposed them, throughout history. I do not think the society of any era becomes more selfless or suffering is reduced thanks to some Sangha folk picking sides.
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:57 pm

I think when a candidates platform, if put into effect, would cause so much suffering for so many people, like Trumps would, I would expect any socially aware Bhikkhu to speak out against that. I think Bhikkhu Bodhi clearly made a good choice to release his statement. This isn't just another Democrat vs Republican thing, this is much worse than that. I mean a lot of people's attitudes is like Jews in Nazi Germany telling each other," don't worry, he wouldn't really do that, how much worse can it get."
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

SarathW
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by SarathW » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:29 pm

like Trumps would
We don't know that yet.
This is a reaction vs proactive action.
Do not forget that we are living in the information age.
Things can change much faster than what we think.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:50 pm

I said the suffering that would be caused if Trumps plans WERE PUT INTO EFFECT.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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DNS
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by DNS » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:50 pm

robertk wrote: Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?
It might be a typo or maybe they are referring to how much the salary went up by?

NYU has one of the highest salaries for professors, the average being $218,811
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/prof ... _KO0,9.htm

Here is an old report from almost 10 years ago showing a median salary of $98,974 for all universities in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor ... tes#Salary

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:08 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
robertk wrote: Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?
It might be a typo or maybe they are referring to how much the salary went up by?

NYU has one of the highest salaries for professors, the average being $218,811
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/prof ... _KO0,9.htm

Here is an old report from almost 10 years ago showing a median salary of $98,974 for all universities in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor ... tes#Salary
But most professors do not have these high wages. Most professors are now "contract faculty" with low pay and tenuous job security.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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DNS
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by DNS » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:13 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:But most professors do not have these high wages. Most professors are now "contract faculty" with low pay and tenuous job security.
Are you sure? Those links are referring to the averages and the median, not the exceptions. Maybe you are thinking of non-tenured asst. professors and lecturers?

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:29 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:But most professors do not have these high wages. Most professors are now "contract faculty" with low pay and tenuous job security.
Are you sure? Those links are referring to the averages and the median, not the exceptions. Maybe you are thinking of non-tenured asst. professors and lecturers?
Well, in Canada at least, most professors are not tenured. They have contract positions that constantly rotate, and universities do not have to pay them the wages of an actual tenured professor. So yes, if you have tenure, a job as a professor can be very comfortable, but that is a big "if", universities do not have to pay contract faculty much above minimum wage if they want to in Canada.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by DNS » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:37 pm

Okay, thanks for the info. That may be the case in the U.S. too with so many earning Ph.D.s the old supply-and-demand, salaries may have gone lower or stabilized with the contract arrangements; I've been out of academia for over 20 years.

To tie this back to the OP somehow: :mrgreen:

Bhikkhu Bodhi has a Ph.D. from Clairemeont Graduate School, a fairly prestigious graduate school. He could have been a professor almost any where making high salary, but instead chose to be a good monk; admirable, imo.

chownah
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by chownah » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:17 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
robertk wrote: Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?
It might be a typo or maybe they are referring to how much the salary went up by?

NYU has one of the highest salaries for professors, the average being $218,811
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/prof ... _KO0,9.htm

Here is an old report from almost 10 years ago showing a median salary of $98,974 for all universities in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor ... tes#Salary
Concerning it might be how much the salary went up:
"The promotion comes with an 18 percent raise to $80,000, a source said."
This would mean that before the raise he was making more than $400,000.....unlikely.
mathematics is powerful
chownah

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by chownah » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:29 am

Concerning the prof. who was censured and then promoted, I think it would be good to bring his thoughts on all this to this thread:
Here’s what happened when I challenged the PC campus culture at NYU
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... 0596af7fe7
These are the thoughts of someone who Yale University supports. Perhaps higher education is not as bad as some people are suggesting.
chownah

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by Phena » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:36 am

So it seems the person that the Prof. wants to speak at his university is none other than the alt-right's and Breitbart News' pin-up boy, Milo Yiannopoulos. I would say well done and good decision to New York University for banning his appearance. They got it right. This is the guy Twitter banned for trolling the comedian and actress Leslie Jones. In fact trolling seems to be one of his specialties along with racist and hate speech.

From what I gleaned from this article, much of the Prof's gripe is centred around the so-called political correctness that is being adhered to and the freedom of speech that is apparently being violated. Well, when it comes to a choice between speech that is tainted with hate and that can incite others to extremes in an already charged environment, I'll take political correctness any day; and the nanny state and all the tags and labels the right-wing use to try to silence any opposition and criticism of them. Essentially this is what it is at the end of the day. It's a bullying tactic designed to shut people down, ironically the same charge that they level that others are apparently doing to them. It's a clever tactic, but don't be conned.

Furthermore, this notion that we should have free speech at any cost without it coming with responsibility attached is dangerous and flawed, because without any qualification to this ideal, anyone can use any megaphone of the of mass media to incite and vilify. I would say why give a platform to a character like Yiannopoulos? Obviously, NYU asked the same question, as did Twitter.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Post by JackOfHearts » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:17 pm

Although Bhikkhu Bodhi lost all credibility as a Dhamma teacher for me with his advocacy for a doctrine of Just War, here, though he couches it as "defending women's reproductive rights," he's advocating for women's right to have an abortion. No matter how much I'd like to sugarcoat it, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that once again Bhikkhu Bodhi is encouraging people to violate the first precept. I take it as further evidence of a fundamental failure by Bhikkhu Bodhi to understand the Dhamma at even a basic level despite his deep familiarity with the suttas. Shocking, I know. But his statements are absolutely irreconcilable with the Dhamma unless you are willing to throw out the teachings of all the Ajahns and the Pali Canon itself. Myself, the only way to reconcile the irreconcilable is to reluctantly admit that despite his admirable efforts in translating the Canon, I cannot hold him up as any sort of Dhamma teacher.

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