POTUS 2020, part 1

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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chownah
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:33 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Nancy Pelosi chosen again as House Democratic leader — but tally suggests deep division

Looks like the Democrats are doubling down on their current path...

Metta,
Paul. :)
This post is not a reply to retrofuturist.

There is nothing in the article which deals directly with what path pelosi or the democrats in the house are planning on taking so to say that democrats will increase their efforts without changing their direction is not what the article is saying. What the article is saying is that there seems to be a rising of discontent among many democrats in that there is a loud voice calling for rethinking of what path should be taken. I would say that the article is saying that perhaps changes will be coming shortly. Perhaps some people will only read the first half of the title of the article and neglect to register the second half which is "but tally suggests deep division".
Why not read the article yourself and see what you think.
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:24 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Nancy Pelosi chosen again as House Democratic leader — but tally suggests deep division

Looks like the Democrats are doubling down on their current path...

Metta,
Paul. :)
This post is not a reply to retrofuturist.

Here is another article concerning pelosi's re-election. Does it make it look like the democrats are going to double their efforts directed in the way they have done in the election? I don't think so. You decide.
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:18 am

I'm sure that absolutely no one has any misgivings about president trump having total access to all internet connected computers and information....but....what about vice president putin? Trump has asked putin to hack the american internet during the campaign and now he is trying to make light of what is evidently a very compelling case that putin DID hack the american internet. Sounds alot like there is some enabling going on here.

So, why is everything so open to attack? One reason is because the american gov't has pushed hard for total access to all internet connected data. I haven't followed this very closely but I do remember some really strong arm twisting going on with some large media providers and hardware manufacturers to make back doors for gov't access.

Well, how do you all feel about this now that vice president putin has this access? I think that most people would have, in the past, never thought that a president elect would have condemned a sitting president for taking action against a foreign power for attacking our information infrastructure......so......if people could have never imagined this before what are the things that we can not imagine now but which will come to pass in the future concerning our information infrastructure and control of our data?

Maybe in chosing a candidate to support in the 2020 potus election (or even for candidates in congressional and local elections too) we should consider one who wants to keep ALL govt's out of our data (even our own gov't) by promoting if not mandating strict encryption or all internet users and uses instead of the present gov't push for them having unlimited access in all cases at all times.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:31 pm

Greetings,

At recommendation of members, the thread on Artificial Intelligence, Automation, and the Economy has been moved into its own topic.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:18 am

When thinking about the 2020 potus elections I think we should be thinking about the rapid rise of automation and artificial intelligence. As several of my posts (which have been moved to another thread) have pointed out this is coming at a rate much faster than most people expect. Not only will the extent of this trend cause major social changes but also the rate at which these things are implicated will cause social displacement and concern. My view is that it is the gov'ts responsibility to facilitate social action and so it should take steps to recognize and mitigate for the social displacement which this will cause. My view is that people will procrastinate and wait until there is a crisis before really starting to deal with it. My view is that people should start thinking about this now and start thinking in terms of how can we as a society take action before the crisis comes. My view is that we should start a dialogue with politically minded people to prod them into thinking and discussing these issues now....trying to get them to delineate some alternatives and getting them to pass these ideas around so people can start considering what to do. If we don't do anything it will just be the ultra rich taking over or perhaps a long protracted struggle between economic and political powers.....and I think most of us know that this kind of struggle has not so far lead to very satisfactory outcomes.
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:45 am

When thinking about the 2020 potus election we would be wise to think about which candidates bring the most intelligent discussion concerning automation. The link I bring today talks about how some european legislators are thinking about robots. My personal take on what they are thinking is that it is trying to take old concepts and fit them onto the new realities and that what we really need is some new "outside the box" ideas to at least be presented and discussed.....you might want to read this and see what you think and whether we should be looking for politicians who can discuss these issues with respect to old and new ideas. Don't let the title fool you....this is about a lot more than just kill switches for robots:
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/ ... -on-robots

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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:49 pm

Here is an example of why I think that the advances in automation and artificial intelligence are going to happen before people/society/the gov't have a plan in mind. Here is an example of an article saying that 51% of all job tasks could be automated by today's technology....which is fine....but then there is a video of some media figures discussing the article and they proceed to predict what the future would probably be like based on the article. Only one very big problem....the article talks about what can be done with the TECHNOLOGY OF TODAY.....while the panel is making predictions about what the future will be AS IF THE TECHNOLOGY OF TODAY WILL NOT ADVANCE IN THE FUTURE. This is a classic mistake. Not only will technology advance in the future it is certain that it will advance at an increasing rate of speed. It is almost certain that some technologies which will be cutting edge in ten years (and maybe only five years) have not even been invented today.
While technology is advancing more rapidly every day it seems that the stupidity of social commentators is easily keeping pace. Have you noticed that in general politicians have had lack of vision on climate change? It is true that many or even perhaps most have come around to see the truth but look at how long it took. Seems like climate change and global warming were first raised in gov't circles about 40 years ago....and still there is resistence to admitting and addressing the problem. This same thing will happen with advanced technologies and artificial intelligence unless the people start forcing a discussion of these issues.
Look at the rate of advance of technologies and AI...look at how it is advancing more rapidly as time goes on.....see that about half of job tasks can already be automated WITH TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY....think of how powerful technology will become in 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years which seems to be the time lag for politicians to wake up to a problem. If politicians were so unprepared to deal with climate change and they are equally unprepared to deal with societal effects of automation and AI then storms a brewin'.
chownah
p.s. Just so you know: my view is that advancing technologies can be a wonderful thing for reducing suffering....or it can be a wonderful thing for creating suffering. It just depends on how it is grasped.
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by pink_trike » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:31 am

poto wrote: Full disclosure: I used to work in the adult industry doing web and marketing. It is not a wholesome livelihood.
Hello Poto,

"It's not a wholesome livelihood" obviously needs some unpacking. If you're referring just to the manufacturing of adult entertainment as "not a wholesome livelihood" ... a constructed narrative that maybe or maybe is not the result of modern Western 'religious' conditioning ... then there's not much to discuss here. The reality is that in our hyper-aggressive, pathologically alienated, capitalist / consumer society, the adult entertainment industry is inevitable, necessary, and valuable ... and should be respected as such. And, the adult entertainment industry in the U.S. is a multibillion dollar industry that employs how many boring, well-behaved accountants, business managers, art directors, videographers, programmers, graphic artists, sales staff, management, etc... ordinary people who go to work each day. A blanket dismissal / degradation / condemnation of 'sex work' as "unwholesome", especially if it is a conditioned, knee jerk, received / trained reaction, is intellectually shallow, reactive, culturally bigoted, and inconsistent with the goal of Dhamma / Dharma practice.

However, if just the act of manufacturing adult entertainment in itself isn't the basis of your "not a wholesome livelihood" comment, then I assume you're talking about elements and circumstances of this community that cause suffering. That we can talk about.

I have a broad, deep, intimate, and lengthy understanding of and association with the adult entertainment industry. I provided pro bono substance abuse counseling / psychotherapy / educational services / and practical support (food and shelter) to the hetero / bi / homo / trans / intersex adult entertainment community in San Francisco and the European male escort circuit for nearly a decade. Through this work I became an active member of the adult entertainment community ... socializing with them, advocating and agitating for them politically, cultivating life long friendships, and blessed with quite a number of loving relationships ... while simultaneously providing substance abuse counseling / psychotherapy / educational services on a fee basis to middle and upper class San Francisco / Marin county residents. After spending the day working with the financially secure, I would descend into the world of the financially insecure and those who have been rejected by mainstream bourgeoisie society for one reason or another ... which often included doing street outreach late at night in dangerous circumstances. I can say emphatically, as a result of this long and intimate association with this community, that I much preferred working with sex workers over the fortunate mainstream, for a few reasons:

1. The adult entertainment community is, by far, in my experience, the closest thing to a true meaning of 'community' (fellowship and caring for each other) that I have ever experienced, and I've been a long time member of quite a number of cultural communities and sub cultures (including an active and committed member of various 'Buddhist' communities for nearly 45 years). My experience of people in the adult entertainment industry, in general, is that they look out for each other with a deep sense of responsibility and caring, and are deeply loyal and generous, to a degree that I haven't witnessed outside this community in modern Western society. It is comparable to the sense and practice of community that I've witnessed in remote Native American, rural Mexican, and remote Southeast Asian communities that are relatively free from Western contamination and degradation.

2. Sex workers (adult video performers, prostitutes, phone / cyber sex workers, erotic dancers), in my experience, in general, have a clearer perception of reality, of what really is taking place right now, in this moment, and the nature of desire / craving, than the average person that identifies as 'Buddhist' in the Western world. They tend to have a clearer perception of the nature of existence, as a result of their outsider status, lived uncertainty, and experiential / psychic mediation of reality. Yes, I'm saying that the average sex worker has a clearer perception of reality and existence than the average middle / upper class self-identifed 'Buddhist' (and those who have absorbed the values of dominant culture). They tend to have a very stripped down way of mediating reality that is consistent with the view of reality that Dhamma / Dharma records have preserved and advocates (minus the very recently added 'religious' lens, the result of the modern Western occupation of Dhamma / Dharma since the late 18th century). There's no evidence of the concept of 'religion' or the emotional state of 'religiosity' in Dhamma / Dharma prior to 18th / 19th century Western interpretation of it.

3. Dhamma / Dharma practice really isn't about about modeling the construct of good vs bad mores of modern Western society, a misconception that is now deeply engrained into modern understandings of the purpose of Dhamma / Dharma practice. Dhamma / Dharma practice really isn't about being "good" and the rejection of the body and material world ... a clear understanding of Dhamma / Dharma rejects the dualistic parsing of 'good' and 'bad' and 'material / immaterial'. Rather, it is really all about the refinement of perception, the cultivation of clarity (vision, free from cultural conditioning, conceptual habits, and emotional reaction), the acknowledgement and acceptance of emptiness (and liberation from the delusion of self-existence), the rejection of dualism, and the value of the compassion that organically arises from the dissolving of the delusion of self-existence and permanence. I've heard countless times the doctrine of 'non-self, interrelation, and impermanence, and the personal testimonials of the organic kindness that rises out of the understanding of these central elements of Dhamma / Dharma, in late night revelations, free from the modern Western jargon of "Buddhism", often delivered in the peak of self-medication, from those who sell their bodies to strangers or give up their naked image to the gaze of hungry masses, in order to provide food and shelter for themselves and their children ... importantly, absent the reward that most modern Buddhists expect ... a privileged 'rebirth' and a cherished self-identification of 'good' and 'spiritual', and 'better than / not like everyone else' (it's fascinating how many people who identify as 'Buddhist' unconsciously think of themselves as 'special' ... which is just one more deluding 'self' concretization ... or, in modern terms, state of insanity.

Are there dangers associated with sex work? Yes, of course. A dear friend of mine ... one of the most intelligent and awake women I've ever met ... was beheaded by one of her escort customers. Does exploitation happen in this industry? Yes, of course. Do some people who work in this industry suffer long term psychological effects? Yes, of course. And yet ... are there dangers associated with law enforcement? Yes ... a dear friend who was a policewoman in Paris was tortured and killed by a drug gang. Are there dangers associated with dentistry? Yes...a dear friend who was a successful dentist recently killed himself ... dentists have the highest rate of suicide of any profession. Are there dangers associated with computer programming? Yes ... a longtime friend and programmer employee recently lost management of his mind and was committed to an asylum ... programmers have a higher than average rate of psychopathology. Are corporate bio-drones exploited ... yes, often extremely. Yet, I've hunted for decades for statistics that support the idea that sex work is more dangerous than socially acceptable occupations. Or more immoral than many socially acceptable occupations, and statistics do not seem to support this popular perception (that is commonly held by 'religious' people). Is sex work really more dangerous, unwholesome, or immoral than corps / industry that deplete and poison the thin fragile layer of life here in Earth that humans and all other living beings depend on for sustenance and survival ... that perhaps irreparably harms DNA, resulting in extreme transgenerational epigentic disease extending 2-3 generations and perhaps infinitely into the future of the collective human organism? Is it more dangerous, immoral, unwholesome than the unholy marriage between politicians and the military ... that results in millions of people killed or displaced on an ongoing basis? It's just so easy for modern, western, religiously indoctrinated people to tsk tsk about sex, while ignoring the indisputable fact that Western civilization itself is immoral and dangerous, and has resulted in 150k species going extinct annually and accelerating ... 70% of all species are projected to go extinct by the end of this century (just 85-ish years) ... and human cancer rates are projected to increase by 70% in the next 20 years, as a result of a delusional, immoral, religionized, mystified, and mythified view of nature and existence and our embedded place within these realities.

Can sex be an obstacle to awakening? Of course. Can anything / everything we do ... the circumstances of life that we encounter in every moment and our reaction to them (even consensually acceptable reactions), be an obstacle to waking up to reality? Yes. Can blindly taking refuge in 'Buddhist" mythology, dogma, and self-identity be an obstacle to awakening? You bet. So let's not point the eager finger of judgement at those "other' people who don't match our conditioned view of acceptable behavior and occupation.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:35 am

SO you're claiming the easiest way to reach enlightenment is to be a sex worker?? I beg to disagree!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:36 am

I don't think being a sex worker will help you to get elected as potus in 2020.
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:07 am

chownah wrote:I don't think being a sex worker will help you to get elected as potus in 2020.
chownah
Yes, it could be a hindrence in the US, especially since sex work seems to be illegal there. Not such an issue in New Zealand:
Georgina Beyer (born November 1957) is a New Zealand politician and former Labour Party Member of Parliament. She was the world's first openly transsexual mayor, as well as the world's first openly transsexual Member of Parliament. She is also among a very small number of former sex workers to hold political office.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgina_Beyer
Image

:heart:
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by pulga » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:05 pm

Amrapāli, also known as "Ambapālika" or "Ambapali", was a nagarvadhu (royal courtesan) of the republic of Vaishali in ancient India around 500 BC. Following the Buddha's teachings, she became an arahant. She is mentioned in the old Pali texts and Buddhist traditions, particularly in conjunction with the Buddha staying at her mango grove, Ambapali vana, which she later donated to his order and wherein he preached the famous Ambapalika Sutta. The legend of Amrapali originated in the Buddhist Jataka Tales some 1500 years ago. -- Wikipedia

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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:16 pm

Great! I think if people want to support a sex worker, whether active or retired, for potus then I recommend a sex worker who knows that advances in automation and artificial intelligence will create radical changes in social interactions are a certainty and it is only the exact time line which is not known.
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by pink_trike » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:32 am

lyndon taylor wrote:SO you're claiming the easiest way to reach enlightenment is to be a sex worker?? I beg to disagree!!
No, I certainly didn't claim that. That is something that apparently your mind manufactured (note: Dharma / Dhamma warns about this). Please point to anything I said in my post that specifically says "the easiest way to reach enlightenment is to be a sex worker".

Many people stumble to an awakened state. There are many karma-induced paths to clarity (84,000 is the number named in 'Buddhist' texts). Many of them are very difficult, even excruciatingly so, but no less fruitful (and sometimes more fruitful and expedient) than the conventional "be good" drenched-in-religiosity path.

Recall the royal courtesan (courtesan = prostitute / sex worker) of Vaishali. Which is more likely:

1. Sid waved a magic wand over her head and shazaam! she was awakened?

or...

2. Her life experience as a sex worker gave her unique insight into Dharma / Dhamma when she encountered it ... having likely realized essential elements of it as a direct result of her life of sex service.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2020, part 1

Post by chownah » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:12 pm

pink_trike wrote:
Recall the royal courtesan (courtesan = prostitute / sex worker) of Vaishali.
A courtesan was originally a courtier, which means a person who attends the court of a monarch or other powerful person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan
Courtesan does not equal sex worker in ancient times it seems.
Does this have anything to do with potus 2020?
chownah

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