POTUS 2016, part 3

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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
38
47%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
21
26%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
8
10%
Jill Stein (Green)
14
17%
 
Total votes: 81

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:09 am

retrofuturist wrote:In a deep blue state where only 4% of voters voted for Trump, is anyone actually surprised by this?
The question is: is anyone actually surprised by the fact that the white house press secretary spins such blatant lies over facts that can be otherwise assessed very easily as telling the exact opposite story?

I understand you have chosen to play devil's advocate, but when that entails defending what is so blatantly wrong, I don't see how it does service to anyone.

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Mkoll
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Mkoll » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:09 am

Right. The issue is not where the inauguration was held---that is irrelevant to what Spicer said. The issue is that Trump is directing his staff to give blatant lies to the American people on Day 2 of his term. This one is so obvious that a small child could tell you that it's BS. This is a bad sign for things to come, though unsurprising.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:53 am

Come on people! Just get your doublethink in gear and everything will be just fine.
chownah

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retrofuturist
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:27 am

Greetings,
Buddha Vacana wrote:I understand you have chosen to play devil's advocate, but when that entails defending what is so blatantly wrong, I don't see how it does service to anyone.
You misunderstand my comment then. I'm not interested in Spicer's comments per se... I'm more interested in the oddity that anyone on either side feels there's a valid or meaningful "point-scoring" opportunity to be had over the other by comparing inauguration attendances over the years.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:37 am

I think Cervantes would have had a good laugh.

Phena
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Phena » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:22 am

Mkoll wrote:Right. The issue is not where the inauguration was held---that is irrelevant to what Spicer said. The issue is that Trump is directing his staff to give blatant lies to the American people on Day 2 of his term. This one is so obvious that a small child could tell you that it's BS. This is a bad sign for things to come, though unsurprising.
Yes it's quite amazing that he kept a straight face. But if you read between the lines, what Spicer's media conference was really about was to attack the media, which will now be part of a concerted campaign to try and control the message. It will involve constant attacks on their veracity to say that they, the media, are misrepresenting the truth, to try and manipulate them into reporting his version of the truth and to portray him favourably. We saw how Trump singled out certain media outlets that he berated in his recent press conference, and then ultimately ignored. This will be another tactic I suspect that he will employ, to try and starve and cut-off the media outlets that don't report his version of events.

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pulga » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:41 am

Certainly the lesser turnout could have been spun more truthfully and given less importance -- though Spicer is probably correct about the global audience, albeit most people wanted to see it for its historical significance.

President Trump won the vote of most Americans east of California -- a good many who didn't have the time, the resources, or even the predilection to travel to Washington D.C. to see him inaugurated. Friday wasn't a public holiday: many found themselves having to work to support themselves and their families. Trump's supporters are of a different sort than those of Obama's.

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:49 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Buddha Vacana wrote:I understand you have chosen to play devil's advocate, but when that entails defending what is so blatantly wrong, I don't see how it does service to anyone.
You misunderstand my comment then. I'm not interested in Spicer's comments per se... I'm more interested in the oddity that anyone on either side feels there's a valid or meaningful "point-scoring" opportunity to be had over the other by comparing inauguration attendances over the years.

Metta,
Paul. :)
This is not a reply to retrofuturist.
Trumps propagandists like this stuff. It makes it so the intellectually lazy once again have serous doubts about what is true and who to trust. A large portion of the intellectually lazy like to have a strong figure to tell them what the truth is....keeping people confused and upset helps drive them to accept a strong reassuring figure who tells them the truth.
chownah

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:53 pm

pulga wrote: Spicer is probably correct about the global audience, albeit most people wanted to see it for its historical significance.
I think historical significance not so much as it is like how people like to drive slow past a wreck and look at the gore. The petulance about attendance is an example of the gore...so people weren't disappointed and will keep coming back for more.
Its like a real life soap opera.
chownah

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pulga » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:58 pm

chownah wrote:I think historical significance not so much as it is like how people like to drive slow past a wreck and look at the gore.
The wreck has yet to begin: the inauguration was the just lull before the coming storm.

Phena
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Phena » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:23 pm

pulga wrote:President Trump won the vote of most Americans east of California -- a good many who didn't have the time, the resources, or even the predilection to travel to Washington D.C. to see him inaugurated. Friday wasn't a public holiday: many found themselves having to work to support themselves and their families. Trump's supporters are of a different sort than those of Obama's.
There are plenty of red states not far from DC, so this is a flimsy argument.

The fact is that more people made the effort to get out and protest against Trump, than made the effort to get out and support him. This says it all really.

Justsit
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Justsit » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:37 pm

Protesters from Canada, UK, 'turned away at US border'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38694437

And so it begins.

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Mkoll
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Mkoll » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:50 pm

Now they are doubling down on the lie and continuing their assault on the media. 1984 here we come!
Reuters wrote:The White House vowed on Sunday to fight the news media "tooth and nail" over what it sees as unfair attacks, with a top adviser saying the Trump administration had presented "alternative facts" to counter low inauguration crowd estimates.

On his first full day as president, Trump said he had a "running war" with the media and accused journalists of underestimating the number of people who turned out Friday for his swearing-in.

White House officials made clear no truce was on the horizon on Sunday in television interviews that set a much harsher tone in the traditionally adversarial relationship between the White House and the press corps.

"The point is not the crowd size. The point is the attacks and the attempt to delegitimize this president in one day. And we're not going to sit around and take it," Chief of Staff Reince Priebus said on "Fox News Sunday."

The sparring with the media has dominated Trump's first weekend in office, eclipsing debate over policy and Cabinet appointments.

It was the main theme at the Republican president's first visit to the CIA, at the press secretary's first media briefing and in senior officials' first appearances on the Sunday talk shows.

Together, they made clear the administration will continue to take an aggressive stance with news organizations covering Trump.

"We're going to fight back tooth and nail every day and twice on Sunday," Priebus said.

He repeated White House press secretary Sean Spicer's assertions on Saturday that the media manipulated photographs of the National Mall to make the crowds on Friday look smaller than they really were.


Aerial photographs showed the crowds were significantly smaller than when Barack Obama took over as president in 2009.

The Washington subway system said it had 193,000 riders by 11 a.m. (1600 GMT) on Friday, compared with 513,000 at that time during the 2009 inauguration.

Spicer's categorical assertion that "this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration - period" was widely challenged in media reports citing crowd count experts and was lampooned on social media as well.

Asked on NBC's "Meet the Press" why the press secretary was uttering provable falsehoods, White House senior adviser Kellyanne Conway fired back.

"If we are going to keep referring to our press secretary in those types of terms I think that we are going to rethink our relationship here," she said.

Conway responded to criticism that the new administration was focusing on crowds rather than on significant domestic and foreign policy issues by saying: "We feel compelled to go out and clear the air and put alternative facts out there."

Priebus and Conway focused on a press pool report that said the bust of civil rights icon Martin Luther King Jr. had been removed from the Oval Office after Trump took office. The report on Friday night was quickly corrected, but Trump called out the reporter by name during a visit to the Central Intelligence Agency on Saturday. Spicer also berated the reporter later in the day.

[...]
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by SDC » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:41 pm

Justsit wrote:Protesters from Canada, UK, 'turned away at US border'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38694437

And so it begins.
This story sounds like BS.

However, if it did happen, heaven help us.

Justsit
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Justsit » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:38 am

SDC wrote:
Justsit wrote:Protesters from Canada, UK, 'turned away at US border'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38694437

And so it begins.
This story sounds like BS.

However, if it did happen, heaven help us.
Well, in general the BBC is not known for publishing "fake news" or sensationalism.

There are other sources that appear reputable.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/mont ... -1.3944657
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/sudb ... -1.3944672

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