POTUS 2016, part 3

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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
38
47%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
21
26%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
8
10%
Jill Stein (Green)
14
17%
 
Total votes: 81

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mikenz66
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:18 am

:jumping:

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Mr Man » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:47 am

UK singer accepts invitation to sing at DT's inauguration:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/3 ... n-ceremony

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Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Buddha Vacana » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:58 pm

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chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby chownah » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:04 am

I read something on the internet today which asked an interesting question:
Julian assange has repeatedly claimed that he guarantees that the leaked clinton emails and associated information did not come from the russian gov't.....but.....the wikileaks websight claims that their system for accepting leaks is such that it is impossible for anyone at wikileaks to know who submitted a leak. If this is true then it is impossible that assange can know that the clinton leaks did not come from the russian gov't. It means that assange can have no knowledge whatsoever about where the leak came from.

Which is it? Is assange lieing or are leaks not anonymous?
Also...didn't I read that assange has offered a reward for a certain type of email from any member of the outgoing obama administration?....if the system is anonymous then how would he know who to give the reward to? My memory is fuzzy on this, maybe I have misconstrued something.
Seems like it might be that assange is not so politically neutral as he has claimed and notice that I say "might" here in that I am uncertain about this.
chownah

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Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Buddha Vacana » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:11 am

Assange has done a lot of good work (and I hope he will continue), but as you underlined, a number of things he has said over the past few months, including openly lying in an interview about Wikileaks' commitment to leak Trump's tax returns (immediately backpedaled and presented as 'a joke' by the Wikileaks team), and refusing to acknowledge that he did take sides in the election, especially by releasing leaks at a time when they would make maximum damage, have convinced me that he is no longer the paragon of truth he once claimed to be. He has made himself a political pawn.

Also, I see people cheering at the fact that Trump disavows his own intelligence agencies to defend Assange. But the reason why he does this makes it actually a scary thing, first because according to evidence rendered public, Russia did interfere, so that he is just putting his head in the sand and refuses to acknowledge established facts, and secondly because the reason why he does this is that it's in his own self-interest at this point in time. Tomorrow if Assange does what he has pledged to do and releases leaks incriminating Trump, he will become his new target. He might even speak of nuking him.

Actually, prosecuting Clinton would be the one worthy thing that Trump could do and promised he would, but never intended to.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Buddha Vacana » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:11 am

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pulga
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby pulga » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:07 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:
Also, I see people cheering at the fact that Trump disavows his own intelligence agencies to defend Assange.


While I believe that Russia probably hacked the DNC it should be noted that Trump isn't president yet, i.e. the heads of the agencies in place were appointed by Obama and technically they aren't even his until he takes office. Given the way Obama politicized the Department of Justice it wouldn't be surprising if at least some politics were in play in these intelligence agencies as well. It's also odd that the NSA which gathered the information only has "moderate" confidence in the report. It seems to me that Trump gives the report the same level of confidence as that of the NSA.


Buddha Vacana wrote:Actually, prosecuting Clinton would be the one worthy thing that Trump could do and promised he would, but never intended to.


It's not over yet for Clinton. One of the reasons for the upheaval in the FBI during the campaign was the instructions it was given by the DOJ in the investigation of the security breach to turn a blind-eye to evidence of the quid-pro-quo bribery Hillary engaged in as Secretary of State. Personally I hope that Trump maintains his leniency towards her, if only to focus on more important problems facing the country.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby chownah » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:01 pm

pulga wrote: One of the reasons for the upheaval in the FBI during the campaign was the instructions it was given by the DOJ in the investigation of the security breach to turn a blind-eye to evidence of the quid-pro-quo bribery Hillary engaged in as Secretary of State.

Back then when alot of people were making insinuations that clinton was involved with quid pro quo as sec of state....but there never was any evidence brought...none at all that I ever saw and I did some looking (but not alot).

Now what you are saying about the DOJ directing the FBI is very interesting. Can you provide something that talks about this?....or is it just rumors?

I guess since the investigation is ongoing we will see this evidence if it exists. Of course if no evidence is found there will still be alot of people who have already made up their minds that clinton did this and they will continue to think this even without any evidence. I will wait until evidence comes to light before formulating an opinion on this. It would not surprise me if there was some quid pro quo and it would not surprise me if there was not.

chownah

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Mkoll » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:46 pm

pulga wrote:Personally I hope that Trump maintains his leniency towards her, if only to focus on more important problems facing the country.

I agree. The situation reminds of Ford's presidential pardon of Nixon after the latter resigned. Apparently the decision was an unpopular one at the time---people wanted to see the crook punished. But the reasoning behind it was similar to how it is today. A trial would focus the national attention on something ultimately irrelevant to national well-being rather than the more important problems facing the country.

edit: Hillary looks safe from the likely AG

Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, 69, also pledged to recuse himself from any investigation into former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38564478
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Buddha Vacana » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:20 pm

You do know that a country of over 300 million people can tackle more than one problem at once, right?

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Mkoll
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Mkoll » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:01 pm

Buddha Vacana wrote:You do know that a country of over 300 million people can tackle more than one problem at once, right?

What an insulting response.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby pulga » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:05 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:You do know that a country of over 300 million people can tackle more than one problem at once, right?


After this last election I'm not so sure.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby chownah » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:28 am

Pardoning nixon and not pursuing clinton sends a strong message to all americans that some people are in fact above the law.....and specifically it sends the strong message that anyone who plays along with the big business and big bank people need not worry about breaking the law.....just like NO ONE WENT TO JAIL OR WAS PUNISHED IN ANY WAY FOR THE OBVIOUS ILLEGAL ACTIVITES OF THE BANKING SYSTEM WHICH PERCIPITATED THE LAST ECONOMIC MELTDOWN.

It is pretty much a known fact that alot of people in the usa are pretty much above the law......so it is just BUSINESS AS USUAL.

Of course we would not want to distract society from the business at hand...or is that we would not want to show society about the business at hand....I forget which it is....
chownah

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby chownah » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:40 am

pulga wrote: Personally I hope that Trump maintains his leniency towards her, if only to focus on more important problems facing the country.

Yeah, right. What a compassionate man that trump is for not picking on the woman when she is down..hahhahahha Trump is such a wonderful man....he lets bygones be bygones....hahhahaha

Besides, he very well may need leniecy himself in the future so it is a good investment in himself.

Also, maybe he knows that there is not enough evidence to convict her and it would end up looking like he was just conducting a witch hunt........better to not prosecute and look like a compassionate gentleman than to come off as a nit picking black hearted cramudgeon.

Also, he could stand and look like the forgiving gentleman even as he sets the hounds loose......and then claim deniability....like he did with the white nationalist vote....

You may see that his non-pursuit is just a ploy but he is not trying to convince you....he is aiming this at many of his already existing supporters who in my view will swallow this hook line and sinker.....he is looking to the future (2020).
chownah

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:56 am

chownah wrote:Pardoning nixon and not pursuing clinton sends a strong message to all americans that some people are in fact above the law.....and specifically it sends the strong message that anyone who plays along with the big business and big bank people need not worry about breaking the law.....just like NO ONE WENT TO JAIL OR WAS PUNISHED IN ANY WAY FOR THE OBVIOUS ILLEGAL ACTIVITES OF THE BANKING SYSTEM WHICH PERCIPITATED THE LAST ECONOMIC MELTDOWN.

It is pretty much a known fact that alot of people in the usa are pretty much above the law......so it is just BUSINESS AS USUAL

Indeed. And the wealthy and powerful being above the law is not anything new in the US or even Ancient India. There's a sutta where the Buddha makes a point using a simile of the rich and powerful getting away with committing crimes that the poor are punished for when they commit those very same crimes. Those who are listening are the ones who affirm this, indicating it was common knowledge. I don't remember the exact sutta though...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Buddha Vacana » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:11 am

Mkoll wrote:
Buddha Vacana wrote:You do know that a country of over 300 million people can tackle more than one problem at once, right?

What an insulting response.

I am sorry that you felt insulted and I am willing to take suggestions as to how I could have expressed the same opinion without openly undermining your earlier statement; however wasn't there a point?

chownah wrote:Pardoning nixon and not pursuing clinton sends a strong message to all americans that some people are in fact above the law.....and specifically it sends the strong message that anyone who plays along with the big business and big bank people need not worry about breaking the law.....just like NO ONE WENT TO JAIL OR WAS PUNISHED IN ANY WAY FOR THE OBVIOUS ILLEGAL ACTIVITES OF THE BANKING SYSTEM WHICH PERCIPITATED THE LAST ECONOMIC MELTDOWN.

It is pretty much a known fact that alot of people in the usa are pretty much above the law......so it is just BUSINESS AS USUAL.

Of course we would not want to distract society from the business at hand...or is that we would not want to show society about the business at hand....I forget which it is....
chownah

:goodpost:

chownah wrote:Besides, he very well may need leniecy himself in the future so it is a good investment in himself.

Also, maybe he knows that there is not enough evidence to convict her and it would end up looking like he was just conducting a witch hunt........better to not prosecute and look like a compassionate gentleman than to come off as a nit picking black hearted cramudgeon.

Also, he could stand and look like the forgiving gentleman even as he sets the hounds loose......and then claim deniability....like he did with the white nationalist vote...

In my opinion a more probable scenario is that an investigation into Clinton's misdeeds would certainly show that Trump was part of them and is implicated with her in the same misdeeds. He has openly admitted offering money to politicians for favors in return and we know he gave to the Clinton foundation as well. It would just prove that he is every bit as corrupt as Clinton.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:52 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
Buddha Vacana wrote:You do know that a country of over 300 million people can tackle more than one problem at once, right?

What an insulting response.

I am sorry that you felt insulted and I am willing to take suggestions as to how I could have expressed the same opinion without openly undermining your earlier statement;

The suggestion would be not to be sarcastically insult the intelligence of someone you don't know well. Where I'm from, that kind of sarcasm is used jokingly and playfully in the right situation, and between people who know each other well. Here, it's just rude.

Buddha Vacana wrote:however wasn't there a point?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby pulga » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:51 am

chownah wrote:Pardoning nixon and not pursuing clinton sends a strong message to all americans that some people are in fact above the law.....and specifically it sends the strong message that anyone who plays along with the big business and big bank people need not worry about breaking the law.....just like NO ONE WENT TO JAIL OR WAS PUNISHED IN ANY WAY FOR THE OBVIOUS ILLEGAL ACTIVITES OF THE BANKING SYSTEM WHICH PERCIPITATED THE LAST ECONOMIC MELTDOWN.

It is pretty much a known fact that alot of people in the usa are pretty much above the law......so it is just BUSINESS AS USUAL.


It is interesting the Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner's father was sent to prison for illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion, and witness tampering. It all seems so arbitrary. To a degree Hillary has already paid for her crimes in losing the presidency and becoming perhaps the most reviled woman in our country's history. I'm sure she enjoys her luxuries, but they most probably leave a bad aftertaste. The same is true of Trump: due to the means he has used to achieve his wealth and power he seems to have ended up unhappy and tormented.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby chownah » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:08 am

To a degree Hillary has already paid for her crimes in losing the presidency and becoming perhaps the most reviled woman in our country's history.
Whatever crimes we might imagine that clinton has committed could not be "paid for" by loss of an election or public opinion. To say so is just to be complicit in promulgating the idea that privelaged people are above the law.
chownah

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Postby pulga » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:12 pm

chownah wrote:Whatever crimes we might imagine that clinton has committed could not be "paid for" by loss of an election or public opinion. To say so is just to be complicit in promulgating the idea that privelaged people are above the law.
chownah


I never said that Clinton fully paid for her crimes, only that she is suffering some consequences for having committed them.


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