POTUS 2016, part 3

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
38
47%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
21
26%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
8
10%
Jill Stein (Green)
14
17%
 
Total votes: 81

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:33 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:
chownah wrote:You say you have a pretty good sense of what the climate policies are going to look like.....show some bravery here and say something definite...make a prediction...what will he do?
I am no prophet, and I see no reason to take your rather coarse bait here. If you mean to say he is not going to do anything bad, let's talk about it again in a couple of months. Obviously, the man himself doesn't know what he wants to do. But the mere fact that he was elected had a devastating effect on the Marrakesh climate conference. What I can predict, is more of the Trump we already know, which is pretty awful.
chownah wrote:About the video: ....
...
....
chownah
I agree with your analysis, but I don't see how it would contradict anything I have said before. My comment was not about how well he is doing with his base but on how well he will actually be committed to benefit them, because if they don't (want to) see it, some do. Noah insists on the fact that deluded people will do any kind of mental gymnastic to keep believing whatever they have chosen to believe. I don't see either how it contradicts your analysis.

A very telling move will be whether he supports the $15/h increase or not. It seems many of his supporters would die at his hands rather than disavow him, or at least they think that whatever wrong he can ever do, be it nuclear war, it will always be a lesser evil compared to those socialists who want to make healthcare affordable. But those who have voted for him and who may still have a little bit of common sense left and regard for facts will surely come to their senses sooner or later. I doubt he can ever be reelected, but then again never underestimate how delusional humans can be.
My course bait? I'm just wanting people to stop talking in general terms of how "horrible" it will be as if they know what he will do and start actually saying what he will do to make it so "horrible".
I don't mean to say he is not going to do anything bad....I mean to say exactly what I said before which is "I have no idea what he will do."
You say you don't see how my analysis of the video contradicts what you have said....what I wrote was directed at the video and if it is a comment on anything you have said it is a comment on you saying "Also, we can see what he is doing right now. See from 2:11 onwards" which was your introduction to the video. My comment is that the video does not suggest what trump will be doing...it just comments on people's lack of understanding on his current rhetoric which I think we both agree might not have anything to do with what he will do.

IN short....I'm tired of people making vague statements about how horrible trump will be which implies that they know what he is going to do and if they know what he is going to do then say what it is....and specificaly inre your recent postings you said "we can still get a pretty good sense of what the climate policies are going to look like" and then you decline to say in any specific way what you think he will do....and you haven't even specified in a general way what you think he will do. I could give what I consider to be a likely scenario but I'm the one who admits out front that I really don't know while you who say you have a good idea won't even hazard a guess! I hope you don't take this personally or think that I am being confrontational about this. It is not a serious issue to be fretful over.

The minimum wage has been mentioned here recently and it seems to me that he will treat it just the way all the other politicians are treating it...not something to justify the term "horrible" but nothing to be happy about either. Whatever it is that gets done I'm sure that trump's rhetoric will be designed to keep his not-so-analytical base following along......he'll keep the professional politicians arguing among themselves and provide the lens to show his base that he is their champion in the matter.
chownah

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:31 pm

chownah wrote:specificaly inre your recent postings you said "we can still get a pretty good sense of what the climate policies are going to look like" and then you decline to say in any specific way what you think he will do....and you haven't even specified in a general way what you think he will do.
Just as if a chimp were in charge of the cockpit and someone were to ask you where exactly the plane is going to crash...

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Mr Man » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:20 pm

SDC wrote: Once again, I have yet to see any actual Trump supporters in this thread. Hillary despisers, yes. Republicans, yes. But anyone who has lent enough support to be called a "supporter", not IMO.
Isn't pulga a Trump supporter? In the poll Trump did get 20 votes so they must have been in here at some time.

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pulga » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:04 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Isn't pulga a Trump supporter?
I'm not a Trump supporter, though I prefer him as our president rather than Hillary Clinton.

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Mr Man » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:12 pm

pulga wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
Isn't pulga a Trump supporter?
I'm not a Trump supporter, though I prefer him as our president rather than Hillary Clinton.
Thanks for clarifying pulga.

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retrofuturist
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:54 pm

Greetings,

The Electoral College has now made it official... Donald Trump has the 270+ electoral college votes to be president.

Despite the attempts to get Republicans to defect from Trump, early reports indicate there have been more defections away from Clinton than from Trump (though I guess that's easier for an electoral college voter to do when the stakes aren't so high, and their nominee's vote count has already become largely irrelevant since they cannot possibly reach 270).

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by alan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:34 am

Main thing that worries me is his inability to hold a thought for more than a few moments. You can tell by the way he talks at his rallies. No sentence is ever complete, they just ramble on, as ideas come up and vanish depending on his desires at the time, and how he feels the audience will respond.
He'll also assume things to be true which are obviously not, and does not appear to have the judgement to know the difference.
He's not getting the daily intelligence briefings, because he's "already more intelligent than everyone else".
He's a lifelong egomaniac and narcissist who has never shown an interest in public service, only enriching himself and his family through businesses that have left his workers and contractors often out of money, if the deal goes bad. Which thy often have.
He's also willing to use hateful rhetoric and stir up a crowd of losers to get what he wants. But I don't think he really knows what he wants--other than for people to love him, and to have power and fame. I short, he's the worst form of human. The type Third World countries used to elect, but now it has happened in America. I find this disgusting.

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:47 am

Welcome to Trump supporters' parallel universe

Image

alan
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by alan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:08 am

I'd call it an alternate universe. One where facts have no meaning.

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:15 am

It sounds very much like the kind of crowd lobotomizing in Orwell's 1984 where people believe anything that comes out from the speaker's mouth, even if he changes his mind completely half-way through the sentence.
"There is no such thing any more as facts"

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:26 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:
chownah wrote:specificaly inre your recent postings you said "we can still get a pretty good sense of what the climate policies are going to look like" and then you decline to say in any specific way what you think he will do....and you haven't even specified in a general way what you think he will do.
Just as if a chimp were in charge of the cockpit and someone were to ask you where exactly the plane is going to crash...
Still no specifics....just vague horror. I have no idea what he will do.(Maybe it is just a case of 'ignorance is bliss'?) Those who claim they know give no specifics and are filled with vague horror.

So far he hasn't done anything. Anyone he has chosen to be in his administration can easily be fired....he is very experienced in firing people you know. Does trump seem like the kind of guy who will delegate authority to others? I think his advisors are mostly window dressing....and I think they know it.
chownah

Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:04 am

chownah wrote:Still no specifics....just vague horror.
We will get them soon enough, don't worry. I don't see how saying a chimp is going to make a mess without being able to foretell what mess he's going to make exactly weakens the opinion. Anyone who had a chimp out loose in their kitchen would be right to expect a big mess and try to do something about it rather than sitting to watch what's going to happen and saying 'still no specifics....just vague horror', let's see if the chimp is going to cook us a dinner properly.

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:32 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:
chownah wrote:Still no specifics....just vague horror.
We will get them soon enough, don't worry. I don't see how saying a chimp is going to make a mess without being able to foretell what mess he's going to make exactly weakens the opinion. Anyone who had a chimp out loose in their kitchen would be right to expect a big mess and try to do something about it rather than sitting to watch what's going to happen and saying 'still no specifics....just vague horror', let's see if the chimp is going to cook us a dinner properly.
Believe me, I am not worrying....seems your mirror will show who is worrying. I guess you are admitting that you really don't know what he will do, which of course is about all that can be said. He has not been very predictable in the past and I expect that trend to continue. The chimp is doing nothing yet. Nothing can be done now to stop what he is doing because he isn't doing anything now.

Can you predict what things will be like after four years of trump?....or are you just going to stick with your vague horror predictions? Me personally, I have no idea what it will be like...I haven't got a clue. You seem to think you have a better idea then me so please give me a clue.
chownah

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Kim OHara
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Kim OHara » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:30 am

The Trump Administration Is Filling Up With Koch Allies

On the campaign trail, President-elect Donald Trump boasted that he had no need for the Koch brothers, claiming to have rejected meetings with them and calling his Republican primary opponents “puppets” for meeting with the Kochs.

Yet, today, Trump's transition team and Cabinet are quickly filling with a number of Koch affiliates, confidantes, and business associates.

Politico has called it Trump's Koch administration. Talking Points Memo noted that “Behind Make America Great, the Koch agenda has returned with a vengeance.” Others have called Trump an unwitting “puppet” of the Koch brothers.

On the LittleSis network map embedded below, you can see how Trump's top officials and his energy, climate, and environment staff are tied to the Koch brothers and their donor networks. ...
https://www.desmogblog.com/2016/12/19/t ... och-allies

As the old saying goes, if you're not worried yet, you're not paying attention.

:toilet:
Kim

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:04 pm

chownah wrote:Believe me, I am not worrying....seems your mirror will show who is worrying.
I am worrying, and I don't try to pretend otherwise as if it were some sign of higher spiritual achievement. The mere fact that truth isn't a reference any more for millions of people is already something pretty bad per se, without having to wait and see how exactly things are going to unfold as a result. We have seen plenty already to have a fair idea.

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:10 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
The Trump Administration Is Filling Up With Koch Allies

On the campaign trail, President-elect Donald Trump boasted that he had no need for the Koch brothers, claiming to have rejected meetings with them and calling his Republican primary opponents “puppets” for meeting with the Kochs.

Yet, today, Trump's transition team and Cabinet are quickly filling with a number of Koch affiliates, confidantes, and business associates.

Politico has called it Trump's Koch administration. Talking Points Memo noted that “Behind Make America Great, the Koch agenda has returned with a vengeance.” Others have called Trump an unwitting “puppet” of the Koch brothers.

On the LittleSis network map embedded below, you can see how Trump's top officials and his energy, climate, and environment staff are tied to the Koch brothers and their donor networks. ...
https://www.desmogblog.com/2016/12/19/t ... och-allies

As the old saying goes, if you're not worried yet, you're not paying attention.

:toilet:
Kim
Well, kim, I do think that I am paying attention....and yet I am not worrying. Maybe I am a drooling idiot or a slack jawed yokel. So how do I fit into "if you're not worried yet, you're not paying attention"? Maybe you can tell me what I have to be worried about....or what should be the basis for my worrying.
chownah

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:19 pm

Buddha Vacana wrote:
chownah wrote:Believe me, I am not worrying....seems your mirror will show who is worrying.
I am worrying, and I don't try to pretend otherwise as if it were some sign of higher spiritual achievement. The mere fact that truth isn't a reference any more for millions of people is already something pretty bad per se, without having to wait and see how exactly things are going to unfold as a result. We have seen plenty already to have a fair idea.
There have always been millions of people whose grasp on truth/reality has been marginal. Democracy in america has largely been a contest on who can incorporate these millions into an electoral powerhouse. Politics in america has not in recent memory (nor in not so recent memory) been equated with truthfulness. Discerning americans who deal in the truth and who are willing to give up their preconceived notions of how gov't work and who maintain a cool head have for many many years been calling for a write in candidacy for american president with the motto "vote Nobody...who keeps their campaign promises?...it is Nobody....who works for the benefit of common people and not big money?...it is Nobody....vote Nobody." Maybe you are just waking up to this....I don't know.....maybe you are not...

chownah

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Buddha Vacana » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:20 pm

chownah wrote:There have always been millions of people whose grasp on truth/reality has been marginal. Democracy in america has largely been a contest on who can incorporate these millions into an electoral powerhouse. Politics in america has not in recent memory (nor in not so recent memory) been equated with truthfulness. Discerning americans who deal in the truth and who are willing to give up their preconceived notions of how gov't work and who maintain a cool head have for many many years been calling for a write in candidacy for american president with the motto "vote Nobody...who keeps their campaign promises?...it is Nobody....who works for the benefit of common people and not big money?...it is Nobody....vote Nobody." Maybe you are just waking up to this....I don't know.....maybe you are not...
If you put Donald Trump on one side and Kim Jong Un on the other, I'll readily go and vote Donald Trump. Fortunately, we're not there yet. Just because things were already pretty bad in the past doesn't mean they can't get significantly worse. It's easier to sit and relax when you think you're not going to suffer from the storm. Some of those who are also pretty safe, though, worry for those who are not. People living in poor and badly drought-stricken areas are among those I worry about.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:20 pm

Anyone that thinks Trumps hasn't done anything yet, must be unaware of his cabinet picks, which give a pretty clear indication of just how bad his agenda is going to be.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Kim OHara
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Kim OHara » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:33 pm

chownah wrote:
Kim OHara wrote:... https://www.desmogblog.com/2016/12/19/t ... och-allies

As the old saying goes, if you're not worried yet, you're not paying attention.

:toilet:
Kim
Well, kim, I do think that I am paying attention....and yet I am not worrying. Maybe I am a drooling idiot or a slack jawed yokel. So how do I fit into "if you're not worried yet, you're not paying attention"? Maybe you can tell me what I have to be worried about....or what should be the basis for my worrying.
chownah
Hi, chownah,
That was aimed mainly at the Americans. The rest of the world has a little less to worry about, but not nothing. In no particular order ...
Breakdown of the last vestiges of respect for truth in politics.
Ditto separation between politicians and big business.
Further moves against science in general, in favour of religious conservatism and irrationalism.
Stalling and reversing government action on climate change.
Trashing of administration competence by bringing in so many people with no experience.
... and there are plenty more.
Your own biggest worry should perhaps be that China will expand its sphere of influence even faster in the absence of effective US administration.

:namaste:
Kim

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