POTUS 2016, part 3

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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
38
47%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
21
26%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
8
10%
Jill Stein (Green)
14
17%
 
Total votes: 81

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Cittasanto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Cittasanto »

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Cittasanto,

I would just say that there is a difference between "wallowing in past misdeeds" and acknowledging the problems that the past has caused and finding solutions. The latter is what has largely happened in New Zealand. Trying to ignore the past hardly ever seems to be a good solution.

The video has little to do with this issue - it's simply a Maori comedian poking fun at the idea of the clever, civilised, English in a very un-PC way, as was his style...

:anjali:
Mike
I had said
There is a difference between bearing the past in mind and dwelling in it.
Kind Regards
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

Cittasanto wrote:
chownah wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: There comes a time when people need to stand up and take responsibility for their lives and not blame the past.
People in the ghetto don't blame the past. They come to an understanding about the past and use it to inform their actions and beliefs in the present....and it might be that they use the past to MISinform their actions and beliefs in the present...I am not going to try to determing how well informed their actions are because I am not in their situation. Should blacks be perfectly comfortable with trump first saying nothing about david duke and then when pressed claimed to not know hime and to not know white supremecists especially keeping in mind that in 1981 the kkk lynched a black man?....for blacks it wasn't so much about blaming the past as it was "here we go again". Blacks are not so stupid to think that trump didn't know about those things and one can only wonder why trump presented such an obviously bogus denial....and so what does a bogus denial of that sort say?....to many blacks is says that it is no denial at all but rather an expression of complicity.
well taking one small part of the whole post you will miss quite a lot. I did directly say "Maybe being there to criticize when criticism is due is needed (I believe it is)...".
how does Trump claiming not to know a white supremacists relevant to a kkk lynching in 1981? I will point you to my post to Mike, and point out that someone supporting a candidate does not mean they are endorsed in return by that candidate. It is ridiculous to assume when things have been said by David Duke that indicate his support was for the best of a bad bunch (a sentiment I agree with, yet I find other aspects of his I know about deplorable, funny how people can agree on one thing yet disagree with everything else). and they disagree on points such as Israel.
If trump, or anyone else, had declared support for david duke, or another such individual that would be another matter.
Anyway, whether you think their actions and beliefs are well informed or misinformed is interesting but does not bring us closer to any solution to any problem....seems it is just blaming. Seems you think THEY shouldn't be blaming but it is ok for YOU to be blaming them.
well If you had taken the full post you quoted a small part of, I pinpoint some areas that should be looked at. I didn't just criticize, nor say they can not criticize. Please read the post fully. However, please say how you believe a solution/s are being sort?
Anyway, if we take your approach and for the purposes of discussion only we accept what I consider to be a counterfactual proposition namely that blacks are blaming the past...then...let's consider why they do this....and let us consider how can we help them to overcome their blaming attitude....do you have any suggestions or are you limited to only blaming?
I had said in the very post you quoted, some areas (generally) that could be looked at.
Instead of protesting and calling for police to fry like bacon, maybe there is another option? Maybe being there to criticize when criticism is due is needed (I believe it is), but also being there to help their community members get out of crime, get a better education, mediate disputes, learn a trade... but that would be easy. it is far easier to get angry at the situation, instead of working for change you can believe in.
I also detailed why the police may actually be somewhat more on edge when dealing with black individuals.

Please read the posts you quote.

Kind Regard
Cittasanto
Cittasanto,
Thank you for this post. You are right....I did not read your post carefully enough. My reaction was to the first part of your post and I mostly ignored the rest. This was a big mistake on my part and I am disappointed in my haveing made that mistake. As a result of my misconceptions I made unwarranted comments and asked questions whose answers you had already provided. I am sorry for having posted in that way. I hope you can see that I was replying to someone who might be only willing to blame (there are many such people in the world) but I see now that this is not you....I cast my blaming onto you and while blaming in general is a misguided action I am especially at fault here because you presented a post which is quite the opposite and through my negligence I did not see that.
I am sorry for having made that post and hope that you will accept my sincere apology,
chownah
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rowboat
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by rowboat »



Video of an alt-right conference in Washington, D.C., where Trump’s victory was met with cheers and Nazi salutes.
“Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!”

That’s how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as “an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world.”

Spencer has popularized the term “alt-right” to describe the movement he leads. Spencer has said his dream is “a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans,” and has called for “peaceful ethnic cleansing.”

For most of the day, a parade of speakers discussed their ideology in relatively anodyne terms, putting a presentable face on their agenda. But after dinner, when most journalists had already departed, Spencer rose and delivered a speech to his followers dripping with anti-Semitism, and leaving no doubt as to what he actually seeks. He referred to the mainstream media as “Lügenpresse,” a term he said he was borrowing from “the original German”; the Nazis used the word to attack their critics in the press.

“America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity,” Spencer said. “It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

Preemptive strike: No one is saying that trump is a nazi and no one is saying trump's views have anything to do with the views of the people in the video.
What I am saying is that trump's rhetoric has been the wind beneath their wings.
chownah
Meggo
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Meggo »

rowboat wrote:


Video of an alt-right conference in Washington, D.C., where Trump’s victory was met with cheers and Nazi salutes.

"...It's not just that many are genuinely stupid. Indeed, one wonders if these people are people at all..."


- Killtron, chairbot of the human-AI ethics comitee. New Atlantis, Mediterranean sea, 2046.
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cjmacie
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by cjmacie »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Phena,

There was never anything said in what I said that implied "ALL" liberals. It was the folly of Chownah to repeatedly insist there was, despite the clarifications. But then, Chownah has been "sea-lioning" for pages now, so I don't expect anything different from him now.
Welcome to the club. :popcorn:

Edit: btw - here's a vote to add an image of a "sea-lion" to the emoticons / similies; would come in handy here...
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Cittasanto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Cittasanto »

chownah wrote:Cittasanto,
Thank you for this post.
Thank-you for that.
I have certainly done the same, and am sure there will be occurrences in the future. Please accept my apologies for my contribution toward any misunderstandings there.

In Truth
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

Cittasanto wrote:
chownah wrote:Cittasanto,
Thank you for this post.
Thank-you for that.
I have certainly done the same, and am sure there will be occurrences in the future. Please accept my apologies for my contribution toward any misunderstandings there.

In Truth
Cittasanto
Thank you,
chownah
chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

cjmacie wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Phena,

There was never anything said in what I said that implied "ALL" liberals. It was the folly of Chownah to repeatedly insist there was, despite the clarifications. But then, Chownah has been "sea-lioning" for pages now, so I don't expect anything different from him now.
Welcome to the club. :popcorn:

Edit: btw - here's a vote to add an image of a "sea-lion" to the emoticons / similies; would come in handy here...
Hey! Can I join the club? I think the idea of having an emoticon club is great! Can I have a walrus emoticon?
chownah
plwk
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by plwk »



From the man himself...
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lyndon taylor
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by lyndon taylor »

In other words big breaks for the billionaire businesses that invested in his campaign and pretty much no real help for the common man, but then that's what I would have expected from Drumpf.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Cittasanto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Cittasanto »

Regarding the Violence in the USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FRwyWM0LYE
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Justsit
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Justsit »

Geez, Cittasanto, I hope you posted that vid as satire, because it's not exactly a reliable source.
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Cittasanto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Cittasanto »

Justsit wrote:Geez, Cittasanto, I hope you posted that vid as satire, because it's not exactly a reliable source.
Can you show how it isn't reliable? considering I have provided two links both of which show there have been fake claims, and I have asked for demonstrable evidence of violent trump supporters previously.

Kind Regards
Cittasanto.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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lyndon taylor
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by lyndon taylor »

Trump supporters seem to have a certain level of gullibility when it comes to fake news stories that support their world view, in fact reputable media outlets are claiming that fake news stories may have been a factor in throwing the election to Trump.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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