POTUS 2016, part 3

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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
38
47%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
21
26%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
8
10%
Jill Stein (Green)
14
17%
 
Total votes: 81

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Cittasanto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Cittasanto »

Justsit wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: if the FBI can take months to sift through the data how can the SPLC in hours? where do they take their data, and how do they do it?

I am aware of the SPLC from them condoning a group that has leaders say horendous things. Look up their views of Black LivesMatter and what the leader of BLM say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awX_9mC8rX4
The video refers to Canada, not US. The source defines itself as "Conservative news and opinion from Ezra Levant and his team of reporters and commentary." it relies on the opinions of one man and his employees and is not exactly an objective source.
yeah forgot it was Canada BLM there just went and got the link without rewatching... But regardless of the source, the tweets can be seen.
but the point is still relevant as they have used chants such as pigs in blankets... which happened just before police officers were shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0vbCH5OFZE
" The Southern Poverty Law Center https://www.splcenter.org/ is an American nonprofit legal advocacy organization specializing in civil rights and public interest litigation. It is noted for its legal victories against white supremacist groups, its classification of hate groups and other extremist organizations, its legal representation for victims of hate groups, and its educational programs that promote tolerance" [bold is mine]. The source of their data was first person reports from those who experienced the activities reported; since that is one of their normal activities, they are able to tabulate data quickly. They have been working since 1971 for victims of hate in its various forms, and are well-respected in the legal community. AFAIK the do not "condone" any groups.
but they do condemn. not condemning a group so open about what they want to happen to cops is condoning, when they spend time condemning hate crimes.
From the BBC - a responsible news outlet has also reported on the crimes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37945386
I am not denying incidents are happening, However, a reported incident does not show much about the incident like why or what brought it about. Also, there are false reports being made, false attributions, and fake stories, do these get included? do see the heavy link which does detail some of these, also do watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42QuXLucH3Q

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Cittasanto
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Cittasanto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Cittasanto »

Mr Man wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
What is your point, are you trying to say this isn't happening?
My point is that your clip is rubbish right wing propaganda.
ok, so do you have information that changes the context on any of these clips?
if the fact that is was compiled by a trump supporter and not the raw video I would be glad to find the full videos. if that doesn't matter, then your objection is a pointless sidetrack from any real meaningful point. and do note I was asking about similare acts from pro-trump side, and have provided a link that details incidents by both. and have since found another http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/18/elect ... -hyperbole
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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rowboat
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by rowboat »

Trump national security adviser General Flynn wrote:"Not anymore, Jews. Not anymore."
Donald Trump appoints anti-Semite Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn to national security adviser
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by ancientbuddhism »

rowboat wrote:
Trump national security adviser General Flynn wrote:"Not anymore, Jews. Not anymore."
Donald Trump appoints anti-Semite Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn to national security adviser
From 07∙24∙16

meh…
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

A Handful of Leaves
chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

rowboat wrote:
Trump national security adviser General Flynn wrote:"Not anymore, Jews. Not anymore."
Donald Trump appoints anti-Semite Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn to national security adviser
I don't think the article is adequate to label flynn an antisemite....but of course it is not surprising that an article on the website for the jerusalem post would think it is.

I think this is a good example of the trump campaign playing a race card and a religion card in that many people carry both biases. As I have said before, playing a race card is not the same thing as being a racist.
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Justsit
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Justsit »

Cittasanto wrote:...but the point is still relevant as they have used chants such as pigs in blankets... which happened just before police officers were shot...
but they do condemn. not condemning a group so open about what they want to happen to cops is condoning, when they spend time condemning hate crimes...
I am not denying incidents are happening, However, a reported incident does not show much about the incident like why or what brought it about. Also, there are false reports being made, false attributions, and fake stories, do these get included?
Without a long discussion of the history of racism in the US, from slavery to the present day, it is hard to describe why the state of race relations here has declined so dramatically in the past few years. Suffice it to say that there is a significant percentage of black people here who are hopeless. They live in conditions of extreme poverty, rampant drug use, minimal education and some recent instances of documented police brutality and blatant miscarriage of justice that have resulted in the BLM movement. Black people are tired of being shot in the streets, sometimes totally unarmed; police sometimes overreact and shoot indiscriminately. BLM is a reaction to that.

I am not condoning illegal activity by BLM members in any way. Violence is not the answer. But I can understand how volatile communities have reached a tipping point, and government has sometimes turned a blind eye. When people feel their lives don't matter, they have nothing to lose by acting out.

And now we have hard line white supremacists in the White House and positions of power. Things could get very ugly.
chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

Excellent post, Justsit!
Only thing it is missing is some little pieces of a long discussion of the history of racism in the US, from slavery to the present day. I am really concerned that without bringing something here as a reality check that people will think that you/we are just bringing more biased political discussion....which is wrong. Racial bigotry is often thought of as far in the past and young people today largely do not know how bad it really was and how recently it was really so bad. For instance how many here know that the last documented kkk lynching occurred in 1981? Not so long ago. And don't forget that this is not just some strange thing which randomly happened in 1981....it was the continuation of a long unbroken history of racial bigotry and racial violence which has extended from the end of the civil war right up to the present.

Can you remember 1981? I can.....and you can be sure that southern blacks can. Can you?

In 1957 nine black students were enrolled in an all white high school in Little Rock, Arkansas. Here, can you believe that this is what it took to get nine black students into a good highschool rather than the substandard black highschools of the time:
By the end of September 1957, the nine were admitted to Little Rock Central High under the protection of the 101st Airborne Division (and later the Arkansas National Guard), but they were still subjected to a year of physical and verbal abuse (being spat on and called names) by many of the white students. Melba Pattillo had acid thrown into her eyes[9] and also recalled in her book, Warriors Don't Cry, an incident in which a group of white girls trapped her in a stall in the girls' washroom and attempted to burn her by dropping pieces of flaming paper on her from above. Another one of the students, Minnijean Brown, was verbally confronted and abused. She said


I was one of the kids 'approved' by the school officials. We were told we would have to take a lot and were warned not to fight back if anything happened. One girl ran up to me and said, 'I'm so glad you're here. Won't you go to lunch with me today?' I never saw her again.[10]

Minnijean Brown was also taunted by members of a group of white male students in December 1957 in the school cafeteria during lunch. She dropped her lunch, a bowl of chili, onto the boys and was suspended for six days. Two months later, after more confrontation, Brown was suspended for the rest of the school year. She transferred to New Lincoln High School in New York City.[2] As depicted in the 1981 made-for-TV docudrama Crisis at Central High, and as mentioned by Melba Pattillo Beals in Warriors Don't Cry, white students were punished only when their offense was "both egregious and witnessed by an adult".
There are alot of black adults who can remember this vividly. There are alot of black adults who lived in this reality every day of their lives as children. There are black adults who lived in this reality every day of their lives as parents.

Go google "kkk lynching"
Go google "race riots in america"
You won't believe it.

I really don't think that most posters here know how hellish it was and how recent that hell has been brought forward.
chownah
chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

Hoping that someone has learned something new about why racial bias is still a big problem in the usa and also hoping that no one is thinking that I condone the violence done by anyone:

On to a question about the campaign:
There has been alot of mention of blm as if it was closely linked to clinton's campaign. I haven't been able to find anything which substantiates this supposed link. I have seen that she has in fact uttered the words "black lives matter" but it also can be seen that blm has confronted her during the campaign and that she showed no affection for them.
Can anyone bring a reference where clinton has said something nice about blm the organisation?
chownah
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mikenz66
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by mikenz66 »

Thanks Chownah. When I lived in Charlottesville, VA in the early 80s I was struck by how recent some of these things were. See, for example, this article about the "Massive Resistance" to school integration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_resistance

:anjali:
Mike
chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah »

Trump on david duke, kkk, and white supremacist:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/28/polit ... remacists/
Watch the video. Do you know what they are saying in the ghetto?....no?.....well I'll tell you. They are saying that every jive a55 NEGRO on the street knows who david duke is....every SEX WORKER on the corner knows who david duke is....you mean trump is going to be the next president and he doesn't know who david duke is?....and he doesn't know about the kkk?....he is one stupid mother if he thinks I believe that!!!! He be president; NEGROES be hurting.

What do you expect them to think? White society has been sh1tt1ng on blacks for over 200 years (slavery anyone?) and blacks have had to fight (fight as in everything up to and including riots) just to be treated as human beings.

I do not condone the violence done by anyone....I am just trying to shed light on the unwanted side effects of the trump campaign. Did trump play a race card? Did trump not know anything about david duke? Did trump not know anything about the kkk? Do you think that blacks are so stupid? You have got to be kidding.
chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Thisperson »

Justsit wrote:And now we have hard line white supremacists in the White House and positions of power. Things could get very ugly.
Who would that be?
Justsit
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Justsit »

Thisperson wrote:
Justsit wrote:And now we have hard line white supremacists in the White House and positions of power. Things could get very ugly.
Who would that be?
IMO Steve Bannon is hard line in that he represents Breitbart and the alt-right white nationalist viewpoint.

Even if you don't agree that he is "hard line," I think it is fairly obvious that his appointment signals an anti-minority bias in the incoming administration. We already knew that would be the case from Trump's statements and platform.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Thisperson »

Justsit wrote:
Thisperson wrote:
Justsit wrote:And now we have hard line white supremacists in the White House and positions of power. Things could get very ugly.
Who would that be?
IMO Steve Bannon is hard line in that he represents Breitbart and the alt-right white nationalist viewpoint.

Even if you don't agree that he is "hard line," I think it is fairly obvious that his appointment signals an anti-minority bias in the incoming administration. We already knew that would be the case from Trump's statements and platform.
Well, the same people stating that Trump and/or Bannon are anti minority and a "white nationalists" are the same people who were against everyone except for Clinton during the primaries and general election. The same people that said Trump had no chance at victory. Why anyone would take them seriously anymore, I have no idea..

Here's a short article featuring comments from a gay jewish man, Milo Yiannopoulos, who works for Breitbart.
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/11/1 ... made-star/

In the article Milo is questioned:
“Do you think your boss, Steve Bannon, chairman of Breitbart and now Trumps Chief Strategist, do you think he has horribly regressive attitudes? He’s been described by some liberals as an anti-semite, a white nationalist, have they got that wrong?”
Milo answers..
“Well Breitbart is a company staffed almost entirely by Jews, I am a gay Jew and he made me into a star, he flew over from America to hire Raheem Kassam to run the London office who is a brown skinned Muslim. This stuff is ridiculous, what a lot of Brits don’t always understand is how ugly and terrifying American politics can be, the name calling can be extraordinary.”
Here's Trump with the rainbow flag:



Of course one could just continue the rhetoric of him hating anyone who is not a straight white male and say he did the above as a "stunt". If that's one's position I have nothing to offer..
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by lyndon taylor »

Even Hitler had Jews working for him.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Justsit »

Thisperson wrote: Here's a short article featuring comments from a gay jewish man, Milo Yiannopoulos, who works for Breitbart.
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/11/1 ... made-star/

In the article Milo is questioned:
“Do you think your boss, Steve Bannon, chairman of Breitbart and now Trumps Chief Strategist, do you think he has horribly regressive attitudes? He’s been described by some liberals as an anti-semite, a white nationalist, have they got that wrong?”
Milo answers..
“Well Breitbart is a company staffed almost entirely by Jews, I am a gay Jew and he made me into a star, he flew over from America to hire Raheem Kassam to run the London office who is a brown skinned Muslim. This stuff is ridiculous, what a lot of Brits don’t always understand is how ugly and terrifying American politics can be, the name calling can be extraordinary.”
From a very revealing article from a not-exactly-liberal site (link below):

Milo - “We live in a post-fact era. It’s wonderful,” he says, pointing to various web pages on his giant computer screen that show photos of, supposedly, Bill Clinton’s grown black son. “The Washington Post gives a truth check, and no one cares. Now you have to use the truth and other strategies. You have to be persuasive. Dumpy lesbian feminists and shrieking harpies in the Black Lives Matter movement are not persuasive,” he says, digging into the egg, turkey, and avocado scramble prepared by his full-time trainer.

In this Kafkaesque troll war for America’s soul, Yiannopoulos believes that all offense is performed rather than truly felt. “I have never been offended. I don’t know what it means. It’s not that I disagree with it. I don’t understand it. I’ve never had that feeling,” he says. “I don’t let feelings control my life. I’m more disciplined than other people. I have a dark, ADD, Asp-y [Asperger’s syndrome] brain. I’m totally autistic or sociopathic. I guess I’m both.”

More below, if you can stomach it.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016 ... nnopoulos/

As it says in the Christian bible, Time will tell where wisdom lies. We can speculate all we want, we just have to wait and see.
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