POTUS 2016, part 3

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
38
47%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
21
26%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
8
10%
Jill Stein (Green)
14
17%
 
Total votes: 81

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:20 pm

Harvard professor says (after a multi-year research project) that politics in the US is the major factor for the decline in economic vitality there.
From the article: “Today, we believe that our political system is now the major obstacle to progress on the economy, especially at the federal level,” according to the report.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hbs-compe ... 19596.html
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badscooter
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by badscooter » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:40 pm

Monkey Gift of Honey wrote:Re: Hillary Clinton's comments about American voters

To make a blanket statement about tens of millions of Americans, to label them all as being "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic", etc, is just plain wrong. Yes, there are people who are racist, and people who are sexist, and so on, but to say that the people that aren't voting for her, these tens of millions of Americans are all of these horrible things is just dark, twisted thinking. I know people who are Trump supporters, they are not all of those things, they are not any of those things she has judged and labeled them to be. The people I know are virtuous, kind-hearted people. For her to besmirch tens of millions of people she could not possibly know in this way is shameful and very disturbing. I know friends who were going to vote for Jill Stein, but now in solidarity with the tens of millions who are just a "basket of deplorables", as she calls them, they are going to vote for Trump as a a sign of unity against this slander and hate toward fellow co-workers and friends.
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"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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pluto
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pluto » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:17 pm

It's regrettable that Clinton has made what, fearfully, may turn out to be a grave mistake in her 'deplorables' comment. By not separating actions, behavior and attitudes from people themselves. This is a cultural tendency and error that most of us share and it's insulting. No hearts and minds won here. People are not racist, bigoted, etc but have racist and bigoted attitudes and carry out hateful acts. If she could pivot on that and drive it forward it might help her. We'll see what happens in the debates. The evidence is clear from the tapes and transcripts that Donald Trump is fomenting harm in the form hate and violent actions at proportions never before seen in a presidential race; at least in my lifetime.

Yesterday at a gas station in rural Georgia I saw a sweet elderly grandmother with two high-energy toddlers in tow. She was buying them ice creams and saying kind things to them. She had on a Trump t-shirt. Clearly this person is not a 'deplorable' but perhaps is uninformed, frightened and sees in Trump someone who's familiar, someone who shares her race, speaks with authority, has the persona of an all powerful male who promises to solve all the problems. This is no doubt part of her cultural conditioning.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pulga » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:34 pm

What irked people about Hillary's "deplorable" comment was not only its gross simplicity, but the condescension it displayed towards those who don't share her views.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:19 pm

pulga wrote:What irked people about Hillary's "deplorable" comment was not only its gross simplicity, but the condescension it displayed towards those who don't share her views.
I thought she was displaying condescension towards racists, bigots, sexists, and the usual gamut of haters. I think she already said that she was wrong to have made her comment. I agree with her that she was wrong to have made the comment. Do you agree with her on this?
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pulga » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:13 pm

chownah wrote: I think she already said that she was wrong to have made her comment.
If I'm not mistaken I believe she said that she "regrets" making the comment. Keep in mind that both Bill and Hillary have law degrees, so they tend at times to be very precise and circumspect in their wording, e.g. Bill's eel-wriggling over what the definition of "is" is in the Monica Lewinsky scandal which among other things led to his disbarment. She was speaking at one of her private fundraisers, so it is understandable that she was loose -- and a bit too forthcoming -- in expressing her views.

I do believe Hillary regrets making the statement.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:34 am

Greetings,

... And she only "regrets" it, because she belatedly realized that blatantly insulting and disrespecting a significant percentage of Americans wasn't the best campaign strategy...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Phena » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:06 am

... and the scoreline so far for mass insults is ...

Hilary Clinton - 1
Donald Trump - 101

Not that I condone any insults, but it's good to keep things in perspective. Come to think of it, I don't think I've heard one word of kindness, or any utterances that have not been divisive form Trump during the whole campaign, or for that matter, ever.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:14 am

Paul Davy wrote:Greetings,

... And she only "regrets" it, because she belatedly realized that blatantly insulting and disrespecting a significant percentage of Americans wasn't the best campaign strategy...

Metta,
Paul. :)
Paul Davy the mind reader. Thanks for checking in on this thread. I hope you stop by more often and let us know what is going on in other people's minds.
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rowboat
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by rowboat » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:45 am

Image

Trump used $258,000 from his charity to settle legal problems
Donald Trump spent more than a quarter-million dollars from his charitable foundation to settle lawsuits that involved the billionaire’s for-profit businesses, according to interviews and a review of legal documents.

Those cases, which together used $258,000 from Trump’s charity, were among four newly documented expenditures in which Trump may have violated laws against “self-dealing” — which prohibit nonprofit leaders from using charity money to benefit themselves or their businesses.
Trump Hosted Fundraiser for Florida AG After She Dropped Trump U Investigation
As Slate's Josh Voorhees explained Tuesday, Donald Trump is taking renewed (and deserved) heat for having had his Trump Foundation charity give $25,000 to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi in 2013 shortly before she decided not to launch a fraud investigation of his apparently quite fraud-tastic Trump University program.
Image

Every Bogus Claim in Donald Trump’s Defense of Trump University
What Trump didn’t address at all? According to a lawsuit filed against Trump and Trump University by New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, the so-called curriculum that was ultimately used was “developed by a third-party company that creates and develops materials for an array of motivational speakers and seminar and timeshare rental companies.” So much for “respected institutions.”

Nor did Trump address claims that that many of the Trump University instructors were a mix of motivational speakers and less-than-successful housing-market investors.


:rofl:
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It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:39 am

Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:Paul Davy the mind reader. Thanks for checking in on this thread. I hope you stop by more often and let us know what is going on in other people's minds.
Well, as various commentators have said, if it were more than mere "regret", then she would have actually apologised and/or retracted her statement.

Yet she did neither of those things (unless she has in the meantime and I didn't hear about it), despite the seriousness of her tasteless aspersions.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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tiltbillings
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:34 am

Trump supporters, they are all deplorable.

>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

chownah
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by chownah » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:24 am

Paul Davy wrote:Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:Paul Davy the mind reader. Thanks for checking in on this thread. I hope you stop by more often and let us know what is going on in other people's minds.
Well, as various commentators have said, if it were more than mere "regret", then she would have actually apologised and/or retracted her statement.

Yet she did neither of those things (unless she has in the meantime and I didn't hear about it), despite the seriousness of her tasteless aspersions.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Mere" regret? Kind of loading the dice here...regret can actually be taken as an apology or retraction. She expressed regret at having used too broad a brush in painting trump supporters. Would you think that the next step above "mere regret" would logically be falling on her sword?

I tried to draw attention to just what the percentages of bigots, racists, homophobes, etc. there are supporting each of the candidates and the american population overall but now I can't find that post....I thought I put it here in this thread but I can't find it. Oh well, since you are here and since you bring up the topic of who might be deplorable and why is clinton so politically incorrect to only regret exaggerating the number of trump supporters who are bigots, racists, homophobes, etc. I will again suggest the we take a look at whatever data is available to determine how widespread these attributes are. Why not let's take homophobia as an example...what percentage of americans overall are homophobic and what percentage are in the two big political parties?

Another possible topic for discussion is whether it is inappropriate altogether to say that anyone is deplorable. What is your view on this?....and what do you think most americans think about this?
chownah

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cjmacie
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by cjmacie » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:30 am

tiltbillings wrote:Trump supporters, they are all deplorable.
... video ...
Good change-of-pace ... :popcorn:

Sobering how so many here take themselves (their political opinions, or rather more their emotions) so seriously.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by pulga » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:07 pm

In energizing their political support Hillary seems to rely on the patronizing attitude of white liberal elitism in all its menacing and belittling condescension, while Trump depends upon the belligerency of populism. Both are troubling in the way they alienate and threaten different segments of the population.

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