Victims of Communism

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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Will
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Location: So Cal

Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Will » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:32 am

DooDoot:
The Buddha focused largely on "causes" rather than "fruits".

Will:
Solutions to which causes were motivated by the suffering caused by the poisonous fruits of craving & ignorance. Until the dukkha nature of societal & personal living is felt to the point of revulsion & renunciation, the world will stay as it is.

Here is a selection from a daily digest of one of the worst forms of societal poisons:

http://victimsofcommunism.org/category/daily/
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

Upeksha
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Upeksha » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:52 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 am
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:59 am
The relationship between communism and Theravada Buddhism is simply that: it has already happened, very brazenly, in the 20th century.
Could you kindly substantiate these assertions with some concrete examples & evidence. Thanks. Its like saying Communism was Russian.
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:59 am
And its relationship to capitalism is simply that: it is happening, right now in the 21st century.
Theravada Buddhism is not a political system, such as Islam.
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:59 am
And the relevant point with respect to both is that: both systems are completely foreign and alien to ancient India; both are products of European modernity, and both spread to become global in scope. One has basically failed, and one is in full flight.
Its still probably not related to Theravada Buddhism. India probably followed whatever systems the Indian monarchs implemented.
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:59 am
And my point is simply that: it's actually not at all clear what relationship Buddhist Dhamma has to modern political economy. And that is why it is actually quite productive to discuss these things, as Buddhists.
Buddhist Dhamma is not related to modern political economy. Buddhist Dhamma is just a path for individuals.
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:59 am
But the problem is: people tend to be more attached to their favoured political economy than just about anything else. If they could, the victims of communism in the 20th century would attest to this fact.
The 20th century was extremely complex (unless you follow the high school & Hollywood version). Obviously there were sufficient social factors & support that resulted in the political rule of Communists in Russia & later in China. Unless a victim of pure imperialism (such as indigenous peoples of the Americas & Australia), "victimhood" generally does not occur in isolation.
1. Communist revolutions occurred in Theravadan Buddhist countries. The evidence (of relation) could not be more concrete than that. It's just a statement of historical fact. Be clear that I am saying nothing at all about the value of that relation (except perhaps that it is rather complex and vexing and worth examining).
2. Because Theravada Buddhism takes place now in the 21st century, it necessarily takes place under conditions of capitalism. Again, simple statement of fact that has very direct implications on the way we all navigate our relationship with Dhamma. Again, that is not a value statement. I'd say the same thing about as before: it's complex, vexing, worth examining.
3. So long as monks get food in their bowl (and so long as we buy Dhamma books on Amazon + work for a living + have stable govts etc) , then there is - unambiguously - some kind of relation between Buddha Dhamma and political economy.

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DooDoot
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by DooDoot » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 am

Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:52 am
1. Communist revolutions occurred in Theravadan Buddhist countries. The evidence (of relation) could not be more concrete than that. It's just a statement of historical fact. Be clear that I am saying nothing at all about the value of that relation (except perhaps that it is rather complex and vexing and worth examining).
Communist Revolution occurred in Christian Russia, which does not make Communism Russian or Christian. A Communist takeover occurred in Cambodia, obviously heavily influenced by the political players in the Vietnam War. Since these Communist Revolutions actually tried to destroy both Christianity & Buddhism, how can they be related to Christianity or Buddhism? :shrug:
In 1975 when the communist Khmer Rouge took control of Cambodia, they tried to completely destroy Buddhism and very nearly succeeded. By the time of the Vietnamese invasion in 1979, nearly every monk and religious intellectual had been either murdered or driven into exile, and nearly every temple and Buddhist temple and library had been destroyed.

The Khmer Rouge policies towards Buddhism- which included the forcible disrobing of monks, the destruction of monasteries, and, ultimately, the execution of uncooperative monks effectively destroyed Cambodia's Buddhist institutions.[15] Monks who did not flee and avoided execution lived among the laity, sometimes secretly performing Buddhist rituals for the sick or afflicted.[15]

Estimates vary regarding the number of monks in Cambodia prior to the ascension of the Khmer Rouge, ranging between 65,000 and 80,000.[16] By the time of the Buddhist restoration in the early 1980s, the number of Cambodian monks worldwide was estimated to be less than 3,000.[17] The patriarchs of both Cambodian nikayas perished sometime during the period 1975-78, though the cause of their deaths is not known.[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_ ... _Rouge_era

Upeksha
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Upeksha » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:59 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 am
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:52 am
1. Communist revolutions occurred in Theravadan Buddhist countries. The evidence (of relation) could not be more concrete than that. It's just a statement of historical fact. Be clear that I am saying nothing at all about the value of that relation (except perhaps that it is rather complex and vexing and worth examining).
Communist Revolution occurred in Christian Russia, which does not make Communism Russian or Christian. A Communist takeover occurred in Cambodia, obviously heavily influenced by the political players in the Vietnam War. Since these Communist Revolutions actually tried to destroy both Christianity & Buddhism, how can they be related to Christianity or Buddhism? :shrug:
If you try to destroy something, you are clearly relating to that thing. That's all I'm saying my friend.

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DooDoot
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by DooDoot » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:18 am

Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:59 am
If you try to destroy something, you are clearly relating to that thing. That's all I'm saying my friend.
Revolutions require money & weapons. Follow the money.

Circle5
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Circle5 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:20 pm

Images speak more than 1000 words. Below are images from the "mineriade" - the 1989 revolution was highjacked by a wing of the same communist party (current socialist party - PSD) that tried maintaining dictatorship. It took many more fights until 1996 when a real change happened. There were protests made by intellectuals and people from the cities that were squashed through police brutality and through sending the miners to Bucharest to beat them to death. Hundreds died beaten by the miners and the police. Universities, opposition newspapers and opposition party headquaters were destroyed by the miners. The famous shoutings they were using now sound ridiculos, but they were very popular back then: "We don't think, we work", "Death to the intellectuals", "IGMT factories are coming to make order".

Below is footage of protestors caught and beaten up worse than animals by police. The dialogues are also extremely funny and it's hard not to laugh your brains out when seeing such footage if you understand romanian. It's like taken out of an orwellian book :


If you can believe it, this was actually filmed by the police and put on national TV in order to inspire fear

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Will
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Re: Victims of Communism

Post by Will » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:58 pm

Circle5 - Video not watchable - a black screen says in white letters:
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Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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