A man with a score to settle

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:40 pm

Hello

I'm reading "What's Left?", by Nick Cohen, and I'm loving it. Since this discussion is so important today, and because most buddhists tend to be leftists like me, I highly recomend it. I'll quote Christopher Hitchen's review.

A man with a score to settle.

WHAT’S LEFT? How the Liberals Lost Their Way
by Nick Cohen
REVIEWED BY CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS

It is not until quite near the end of this mordant and instructive polemic that Nick Cohen comes right out with his own confession: “My instant reaction to the 9/11 attacks was that they were a nuisance that got in the way of more pressing concerns. Throughout the 1990s, I had been writing about the overweening power of big business and how it could corrupt democratic governments. I had lambasted new Labour for its love of conservative crime policies and attacks on civil liberties for years. Attacking Tony Blair was what I liked doing — what got me out of bed in the morning. Accepting that fascism is worse than western democracy, even western democracies governed by George W Bush and Tony Blair, sounds very easy in theory, but it is very difficult to do in practice when you are a habitual enemy of the status quo in your own country.”

He might have left it at this. After all, there are thousands and thousands of middle-aged lefties for whom their once-revolutionary “credentials” are all they have left to show for a lifetime of “activism”, and who could not face their friends — or, perhaps, their students — if they found themselves endorsing a war fought by British or American soldiers. (I myself remember repressing a twinge of annoyance at the idea that the assault on civilisation represented by the 9/11 attacks would drive my anti-Kissinger book from the front page where I still believe it belonged.) But Cohen goes further: “I wanted anything associated with Tony Blair to fail, because that would allow me to return to the easy life of attacking him.”

It is this sentence, and its implications, that make his book an exceptional and necessary one. Cohen has no problem with those who are upset about state-sponsored exaggerations of the causes of war, or furious about the bungled occupation of Iraq that has ensued. People who think this is the problem are not his problem. Here’s his problem: the people who would die before they would applaud the squaddies and grunts who removed hideous regimes from Afghanistan and Iraq, yet who happily describe Islamist video-butchers and suicide-murderers as a “resistance”. Those who do this are not “anti-war” at all, but are shadily taking the other side in a conflict where the moral and civilisational stakes are extremely high.

There are two possible sorts of “left” reaction to a dilemma like this. One is to seek out the democratic and secular forces in the Muslim world — the Kurdish revolutionaries in Iraq, say, or the Afghan women’s movement — and to offer them your solidarity whether Bush or Blair will do so or not. (Some things, as Orwell wrote, are true even if The Daily Telegraph says they are true.) The other is to say that globalisation is the main enemy, and that, therefore, any enemy of that enemy is a friend. In this twisted mental universe, even a medievalist jihad is better than no struggle at all. Cohen has decided to adopt the first position, and to anatomise and ridicule the second one. The result is an exemplary piece of political satire, in which the generally amusing and ironic tone should not lull you into ignoring the deadly seriousness of the argument.

It is not absolutely necessary to have a personal stake in a discussion like this, but it does help. Cohen started out trying to defend the honour of the left, and attempting to appeal to its better traditions. He swiftly found that this made him the target of the most hysterical slander, from people whose hatred of liberal democracy has a long and sordid ancestry. He then lowered his head, clenched his teeth, steered into the storm and embarked on the toughest struggle an old leftist can ever undertake: a confrontation with former comrades who suspect him of “selling out”. What probably began as a long essay has now metamorphosed into a full-scale settling of accounts.

It’s all here: from the pseudo-radicals who said there was nothing to choose between Nazi imperialism in Europe and British rule in India, through the supporters of the Hitler-Stalin pact, all the way to those who defended Slobodan Milosevic as a socialist and those who took, quite literally took, money from the bloody hands of Saddam Hussein. Just in the past decade or so, had this “anti-war” rabble had its way, we would have seen Kuwait stay part of Iraq, Bosnia and Kosovo cleansed and annexed by “Greater” Serbia, and the Taliban retaining control of Afghanistan. You might think that such a record would lead its adherents to be dismissed as a silly and sinister fringe, but instead it is they who pose as the principled radicals and their opponents who are treated with unconcealed disdain in the universities and on the BBC.

This betrayal (because there is no other word for it) has been made possible in part by a degraded version of multiculturalism. The hard left has junked its historic secularism, to say nothing of its principles of equality for females and homosexuals, to make common cause with Muslim outfits some of which are associated in other countries with the extreme right. It has done this by the use of nonsense terms such as “Islamophobia”, which are designed to give the no-less nonsensical impression that Islam is some kind of persecuted ethnicity. But the vile attacks by Islamists on the Jews (Britain’s oldest minority) and on India (Britain’s most important democratic ally after the United States) show the truly reactionary and hateful character of the opportunist alliance between failed ex-Stalinists and fanatical theocrats. For Cohen, as for some others of us, this is no longer a difference of emphasis within the family of the left. It is the adamant line of division in a bitter fight against a new form of fascism, at home no less than abroad.

I think he is right to identify the opening of this crisis with the events in Bosnia and Kosovo, because in that instance it was America (pushed by the supposed “poodle” Blair) that used force to prevent the annihilation of a Muslim community. Those who opposed that rescue operation, and who yet denounce the fight against Bin-Ladenism and its allies as “targeting” Muslims, have given the game away and shown that they hate only Anglo-American policy, to a degree that results in blindness. Meanwhile, Israel is always and everywhere to be denounced (and not always wrongly) while the other product of British partition policy during 1947-48, the part-rogue and part-failed state named Pakistan, is never indicted in the same way for its numberless bigotries and aggressions. This is bad faith, and needs to be unmasked as such. Cohen’s book is an admirable example of self- criticism and self-examination, using intellectual honesty as a means of illuminating a much wider canvas.

Do not feel that you have to be a leftist or liberal to read it, because it engages with an argument that is crucial for all of us, and for our time.

Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair and the author of Thomas Paine’s Rights of Man. What’s Left? is available at the Books First price of £11.99
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:34 pm

Hello.

I though I should post an excelent interview with the author of the book. This is not intended to cause debate. I think this issue is important, but too delicate for debates to have a significant effect. However, I believe that careful consideration of these issues is of paramount importance for the well being of human kind in the times to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5fXEp4O6Lo
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:12 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:This is not intended to cause debate.
Then why post it this stuff here? This may meet your political take on things, but I question the need for it on this forum in general. There are plenty political forums out there were this stuff can be debated to death, but I see no need for this stuff on a Buddhist form.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:25 am

I put it here because I think reflecting on this is of paramount importance for the future of the human race.

Regarding appropriateness, there are topics about POTUS elections, Brexit, Thailand's several political problems, Myanmar's several political problems, political polls, global warming, and so on. I think it's as valid a topic for the lounge section as any of these, and more important than some frivolous ones. Although I like the frivolous ones too. A fortriori I like these to.

Watch the interview. You may like it.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:38 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:I put it here because I think reflecting on this is of paramount importance for the future of the human race.

Regarding appropriateness, there are topics about POTUS elections, Brexit, Thailand's several political problems, Myanmar's several political problems, political polls, global warming, and so on. I think it's as valid a topic for the lounge section as any of these, and more important than some frivolous ones. Although I like the frivolous ones too. A fortriori I like these to.

Watch the interview. You may like it.
From what I saw of the video, and from Hitchens' review, probably not, but I am not going to waste an hour watching it. I find HITCHENS' review an unnecessary snarling bit, particularly when it comes to Islam, but then that was HITCHENS nasty biases. I am not a big fan of those threads, either, but this stuff, naw. There is something really rather unskillful, unwholesome from a Buddhist standpoint, about the politics of HITCHENS' review and the bit of video that I watched.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

chownah
Posts: 6582
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:50 am

Here’s his problem: the people who would die before they would applaud the squaddies and grunts who removed hideous regimes from Afghanistan and Iraq, yet who happily describe Islamist video-butchers and suicide-murderers as a “resistance”. Those who do this are not “anti-war” at all, but are shadily taking the other side in a conflict where the moral and civilisational stakes are extremely high.
So, is this the issue being raised?
chownah

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 18543
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:01 am

Greetings MP,

Thanks for sharing the video - I enjoyed that.

The aspect of most interest to me was when the guest was talking about the "post-Socialist left". With the fall of Planned Socialism (ala USSR) and with Capitalism seeming to be a working solution at the time, the raison d'être for the traditional left was lost, and when it coalesced, there was no longer a single uniting focus on socialist Economics. A diversity of non-Economic agendas arose pertaining to matters of oppression, the environment, the industrial-military complex etc. but they were not necessarily aligned or in ideological agreement... and concepts like intersectionality cannot glue them back together either.

I have been wondering about the origins of the current fragmentation of the left, and the explanation given in the interview seems quite sensible and plausible.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

chownah
Posts: 6582
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:29 am

hitchens wrote: and those who took, quite literally took, money from the bloody hands of Saddam Hussein.
Hitchens seems like a hack writer who excessively plays the emotional card and who dilutes the power of the written word by producing the obvious fallacy offered above....."quite literally took, money from the bloody hands..".....BS....a corruption of the english language or a blatant lie.
chownah

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5632
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:59 am

tiltbillings wrote:There are plenty political forums out there were this stuff can be debated to death, but I see no need for this stuff on a Buddhist form.
Totally agree. The media is saturated with politics and political skulduggery on a daily basis at the moment, particularly here in the UK. It would be nice if there was somewhere which was a temporary haven from all of that, as well as the endless speculation about it all, which often achieves nothing but busier minds and more confusion.

:anjali:

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:11 am

Aloka wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:There are plenty political forums out there were this stuff can be debated to death, but I see no need for this stuff on a Buddhist form.
Totally agree. The media is saturated with politics and political skulduggery on a daily basis at the moment, particularly here in the UK. It would be nice if there was somewhere which was a temporary haven from all of that, as well as the endless speculation about it all, which often achieves nothing but busier minds and more confusion.
And the vitriolic negativity that drips from Hitchens' pen, I just do not think we need this here. What is really the point of it?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5632
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:23 am

tiltbillings wrote: And the vitriolic negativity that drips from Hitchens' pen, I just do not think we need this here. What is really the point of it?
Just for clarification, Is it the same Christopher Hitchins who was an atheist and died of cancer in 2011 ?

.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:33 am

Aloka wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: And the vitriolic negativity that drips from Hitchens' pen, I just do not think we need this here. What is really the point of it?
Just for clarification, Is it the same Christopher Hitchins who was an atheist and died of cancer in 2011 ?

.
Yes.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:38 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Aloka wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:There are plenty political forums out there were this stuff can be debated to death, but I see no need for this stuff on a Buddhist form.
Totally agree. The media is saturated with politics and political skulduggery on a daily basis at the moment, particularly here in the UK. It would be nice if there was somewhere which was a temporary haven from all of that, as well as the endless speculation about it all, which often achieves nothing but busier minds and more confusion.
And the vitriolic negativity that drips from Hitchens' pen, I just do not think we need this here. What is really the point of it?
I'd rather say he was unforgiving toward evil people, like Henry Kissinger, and toward the many evil ideologies in this world. As Richard Dawkins put it, "He was our battering ram". The man was a brilliant deffender of democratic values and a fierce oponent to the enemies of democracy and human rights.

Aloka,

yes Christopher Hitchens, the writer, journalist and famous atheist who died of cancer around that time.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:47 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
I'd rather say he was unforgiving toward evil people, like Henry Kissinger, and toward the many evil ideologies in this world. As Richard Dawkins put it, "He was our battering ram". The man was a brilliant deffender of democratic values and a fierce oponent to the enemies of democracy and human rights.

Aloka,

yes Christopher Hitchens, the writer, journalist and famous atheist who died of cancer around that time.
Or he was a nasty axe grinding old fart. This thread would have been better served without that opening bit of nastiness from the nasty axe grinding old fart, and had you simply posted the video link with a brief description.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5632
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:01 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Aloka,

yes Christopher Hitchens, the writer, journalist and famous atheist who died of cancer around that time.
I have never been an admirer. (Nor of Dawkins)

:shrug:

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:06 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Modus.Ponens wrote:
I'd rather say he was unforgiving toward evil people, like Henry Kissinger, and toward the many evil ideologies in this world. As Richard Dawkins put it, "He was our battering ram". The man was a brilliant deffender of democratic values and a fierce oponent to the enemies of democracy and human rights.

Aloka,

yes Christopher Hitchens, the writer, journalist and famous atheist who died of cancer around that time.
Or he was a nasty axe grinding old fart. This thread would have been better served without that opening bit of nastiness from the nasty axe grinding old fart, and had you simply posted the video link with a brief description.
Tilt,

The first post was ages ago. I watched this interview recently and thought I should post it where it belongs.

What you see as negative vitriol, I see as a propper condemnation of evil people and ideologies. If the style doesn't suit you that's fine. If the content doesn't suit you then that's one of the purposes: to make people analyse themselves and their beliefs and views to check wether they're actually wholesome or not. And that can be very unconfortable, but also very necessary. That's why I try not to debate this stuff any more. If people want to do their critical thinking with an open mind then the best way is to do it in private, while objectively evaluating the arguments presented in the video. And if anyone likes it I suggest reading Nick Cohen's book.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

pulga
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by pulga » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:33 pm

“Only thing we have to fear Is fear itself” is FDR, not JFK. The interview is interesting, though I think Cohen's views on the ill effects of unbounded multiculturalism have been a focal point in conservative circles for years.

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:06 pm

pulga wrote:“Only thing we have to fear Is fear itself” is FDR, not JFK. The interview is interesting, though I think Cohen's views on the ill effects of unbounded multiculturalism have been a focal point in conservative circles for years.
I see what you mean. And that's why I don't like the word "multiculturalism". It has two meanings attached to it: pluralism, which I think is good; and cultural relativism, which has the potential to create moral and legal double standards. I don't like the criticism of multiculturalism that aims its attacks at pluralism, but disguises itself as aiming against cultural relativism. So I understand the hesitation.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:48 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Modus.Ponens wrote:
I'd rather say he was unforgiving toward evil people, like Henry Kissinger, and toward the many evil ideologies in this world. As Richard Dawkins put it, "He was our battering ram". The man was a brilliant deffender of democratic values and a fierce oponent to the enemies of democracy and human rights.

Aloka,

yes Christopher Hitchens, the writer, journalist and famous atheist who died of cancer around that time.
Or he was a nasty axe grinding old fart. This thread would have been better served without that opening bit of nastiness from the nasty axe grinding old fart, and had you simply posted the video link with a brief description.
Tilt,

The first post was ages ago. I watched this interview recently and thought I should post it where it belongs.

What you see as negative vitriol, I see as a propper condemnation of evil people and ideologies. If the style doesn't suit you that's fine. If the content doesn't suit you then that's one of the purposes: to make people analyse themselves and their beliefs and views to check wether they're actually wholesome or not. And that can be very unconfortable, but also very necessary. That's why I try not to debate this stuff any more. If people want to do their critical thinking with an open mind then the best way is to do it in private, while objectively evaluating the arguments presented in the video. And if anyone likes it I suggest reading Nick Cohen's book.
So, you are posting this for our benefit, because we need to be exposed to the truly true truth about things, because you have it and we do not. Since this has nothing to do with the Dhamma, has it ever occurred to you that the people here, if they wanted to pursue this line of thinking that it would not be here; rather, it would be in any number of forums that are dedicated this this sort exploration of the truly true truth about the world? The problem with Hitchens and Cohen line of thinking, it is rather ugly stuff. As was said above: "The media is saturated with politics and political skulduggery on a daily basis at the moment, particularly here in the UK. It would be nice if there was somewhere which was a temporary haven from all of that, as well as the endless speculation about it all, which often achieves nothing but busier minds and more confusion."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: A man with a score to settle

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:09 pm

I'm starting to think that your multiple posts of meta discussion and hostile negativity have no other purpose than to try to make me lose my cool so you can close the topic. Perhaps even on grounds of meta discussion.

I get that you don't like the content. But I have given appropriate justification for the legitimacy and importance of this topic, namely that it is of paramount importance to the human race's survival that we get this question right. It is thus of paramount importance to the dhamma too.

Diversity of opinion is essential to democracy, as long as these opinions are not incitements to violence. And these are far from incitetments to violence. They are actualy the opposite of that. It's ok that you or Aloka don't want to hear them. I don't read many of the topics either. You can choose not to read this topic too. But some others have taken something of value from it.

Have you seen the interview?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lyndon taylor and 14 guests