North Carolina's "bathroom law."

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
Locked
persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:11 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:Look up what gender dysphoria is and you will see why I answered your question as I did. "Most" people's gender can be ascertain from their self-reflection on their body. In some people, self-reflection on the body causes the mental state of gender dysphoria to arise. It is a deeply and profoundly unpleasant mental state. If you suffer from gender dysphoria, that makes to transexual, regardless of if you body looks male or female.
Yes, gender dysphoria is a mental illness causing such problems. But fortunately, just like most other psychological problems, it tends to disappear after a while. Studies say that 80-90% of those who manifest transgender feelings gradually loose those feelings after a while. The same can not be said about gays. Been gay is not a mental illness and those feelings do not tend to disappear.

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:15 pm

Cittasanto wrote: Hi Chownah,
I believe the issue is some don't understand gender is (in this case particularly) not the psychological rather the physical. A transsexual actually has gender dysphoria and aims to be the oposite sex.
Kind regards
Cittasanto
True, allowances and compromises are made in the form of an artificially construed "sex-gender dichotomy", in order that biological essentialists and transphobic individuals can be mildly placated and can join the general discourse held by the rest of us who do not have such hang-ups, in the hopes that they can be at least educated remedially as to why transsexuals deserve basic respect.

Ask any transexual if they feel their true gender is any different from their sex. You will get a very telling answer.

Also this is presented backwards. The general appearance of the sex-gender dichotomy is that sex is biological, gender is psychological.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3375
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by Mr Man » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:57 pm

persecuted wrote: Yes, gender dysphoria is a mental illness causing such problems. But fortunately, just like most other psychological problems, it tends to disappear after a while. Studies say that 80-90% of those who manifest transgender feelings gradually loose those feelings after a while. The same can not be said about gays. Been gay is not a mental illness and those feelings do not tend to disappear.
It is not considered a "mental illness" in the UK (or at least not by the NHS).
Biological sex is assigned at birth, depending on the appearance of the genitals. Gender identity is the gender that a person "identifies" with or feels themselves to be.

While biological sex and gender identity are the same for most people, this isn't the case for everyone. For example, some people may have the anatomy of a man, but identify themselves as a woman, while others may not feel they're definitively either male or female.

This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness.
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dys ... ction.aspx

persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:57 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:True, allowances and compromises are made in the form of an artificially construed "sex-gender dichotomy", in order that biological essentialists and transphobic individuals can be mildly placated and can join the general discourse held by the rest of us who do not have such hang-ups, in the hopes that they can be at least educated remedially as to why transsexuals deserve basic respect.

Ask any transexual if they feel their true gender is any different from their sex. You will get a very telling answer.
Yes, they deserve basic respect just like people suffering from OCD, depression, schizofrenia etc. deserve basic respect. But they should not demand the status of gays or demand that society molds itself after their wishes like in the case of transgender bathrooms.

And I have another question. Why do transgenders want to use their chosen gender-specific bathroom in the first place ? In what way does that help them ?

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:22 pm

Transgenders should be denied the status of gays???? What is the status of gay?? Equality is what they are asking for but seldom get, so trangender do not desreve equality or anywhere near that?? Disgusting.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:27 pm

persecuted wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:True, allowances and compromises are made in the form of an artificially construed "sex-gender dichotomy", in order that biological essentialists and transphobic individuals can be mildly placated and can join the general discourse held by the rest of us who do not have such hang-ups, in the hopes that they can be at least educated remedially as to why transsexuals deserve basic respect.

Ask any transexual if they feel their true gender is any different from their sex. You will get a very telling answer.
Yes, they deserve basic respect just like people suffering from OCD, depression, schizofrenia etc. deserve basic respect. But they should not demand the status of gays or demand that society molds itself after their wishes like in the case of transgender bathrooms.

And I have another question. Why do transgenders want to use their chosen gender-specific bathroom in the first place ? In what way does that help them ?
Transexuals want to be able to use the bathroom of that corresponds to their gender for the same reason you, presumably, want to use the bathroom that corresponds to your gender. They would like to not be treated differently by society, despite the fact that they are different, on account of their dysphoria. Similarly, homosexuals would like to not be treated differently by society, despite the fact that we are different, on account of our irregular sexual orientation.

The idea that 80-90% of transexuals just "grow out of it" is blatantly untrue.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:37 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
persecuted wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:True, allowances and compromises are made in the form of an artificially construed "sex-gender dichotomy", in order that biological essentialists and transphobic individuals can be mildly placated and can join the general discourse held by the rest of us who do not have such hang-ups, in the hopes that they can be at least educated remedially as to why transsexuals deserve basic respect.

Ask any transexual if they feel their true gender is any different from their sex. You will get a very telling answer.
Yes, they deserve basic respect just like people suffering from OCD, depression, schizofrenia etc. deserve basic respect. But they should not demand the status of gays or demand that society molds itself after their wishes like in the case of transgender bathrooms.

And I have another question. Why do transgenders want to use their chosen gender-specific bathroom in the first place ? In what way does that help them ?
Transexuals want to be able to use the bathroom of that corresponds to their gender for the same reason you, presumably, want to use the bathroom that corresponds to your gender. They would like to not be treated differently by society, despite the fact that they are different, on account of their dysphoria. Similarly, homosexuals would like to not be treated differently by society, despite the fact that we are different, on account of our irregular sexual orientation.

The idea that 80-90% of transexuals just "grow out of it" is blatantly untrue.
But they are different in a different way than gay are different. Their condition is in the DSM. And my statistic is true and taken serious in every other western country except US and UK. Undergoing the sex change operation is a major decision that should be taken as a last resort if other methods fail to work. Even then, in europe, the person is required to live 1 year dressed as a woman under a psychologist supervision before taking this step. Transgender regret is a known phenomenon and 42% of those undergoing the operation attempt suicide. It's not a decision to be taken in a rush.

persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:45 pm

for the same reason you, presumably, want to use the bathroom that corresponds to your gender.
Been heterosexual in my sexual preference, I'd use the woman bathroom anytime. The reason I don't use it is because that would disturb those women. If this is not a big deal for me, I don't see why it would be a big deal for transgenders.

chownah
Posts: 7597
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by chownah » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:47 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: Hi Chownah,
I believe the issue is some don't understand gender is (in this case particularly) not the psychological rather the physical. A transsexual actually has gender dysphoria and aims to be the oposite sex.
Kind regards
Cittasanto
True, allowances and compromises are made in the form of an artificially construed "sex-gender dichotomy", in order that biological essentialists and transphobic individuals can be mildly placated and can join the general discourse held by the rest of us who do not have such hang-ups, in the hopes that they can be at least educated remedially as to why transsexuals deserve basic respect.

Ask any transexual if they feel their true gender is any different from their sex. You will get a very telling answer.

Also this is presented backwards. The general appearance of the sex-gender dichotomy is that sex is biological, gender is psychological.
So, I guess that some people think that sex is based on genitals and gender is based on the brain....but you do not share this view.
Anyway, it would be interesting if someone who sees sex and gender this way would come on board and tell me how to determine what gender I am.
chownah

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:36 pm

chownah wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:The general appearance of the sex-gender dichotomy is that sex is biological, gender is psychological.
So, I guess that some people think that sex is based on genitals and gender is based on the brain....but you do not share this view.
Anyway, it would be interesting if someone who sees sex and gender this way would come on board and tell me how to determine what gender I am.
chownah
From the webpage Gender 101, on a site that proliferates the ideology of the sex-gender dichotomy for the purposes of education.
While many people use the words sex and gender interchangeably, these words have different meanings.

We define sex as biological and legal characteristics used to classify humans as male, female, intersex or another categories, primarily associated with physical and physiological features including chromosomes, hormones, and reproductive/sexual anatomy. People are usually assigned male or female at birth and this marker goes on legal documents such as birth certificates.

Gender refers to socially and culturally constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and trans people. One example, of a gender role is that boys may be expected to ply with trucks and girls with dolls. The ways people think about gender change over time and are different across cultures.

Often people’s sex and gender match up, but many people identify as a gender that is different from the sex they were assigned at birth.
I think you are mistaken. I am well aware of this ideology, and the only reason it exists is to placate nitpicky transphobic individuals who wants to say, to trans people, "But you aren't REALLLLY a man/woman". It has been embraced as a pedagogical tool for educating these types of people. I do not disagree with this ideology, it is merely depressing to know that it has to be implemented, because people can't just give trans people the basic respect of treating them as what they are by their own volition.
persecuted wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: The idea that 80-90% of transexuals just "grow out of it" is blatantly untrue.
But they are different in a different way than gay are different. Their condition is in the DSM. And my statistic is true and taken serious in every other western country except US and UK.
Your statistic is very popular in the US and UK as well, and frequently misquoted there by individuals who want to silence and deny transsexuals basic autonomy over their own bodies. It only applies to children, which the original study was about. It does not apply to adolescents or adults, and the children in the study did not want to surgically change their gender. Assuming you are referring to the widely disseminated study quoted in this book, which is the only one I know of that has those exact percentiles reflected in its results, and is widely quoted in anti-trans circles on reddit.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:02 pm

I can not open that book, it requires account. But yes, that is the statistic I am speaking about. Could you please link a respected scientific study contradicting that statistic ?

1) I see that you clam to be little more informed on the topic than the average leftist (you called others transphobics, I have all the right to call you leftist). Could you please address the "90% of transgender are autogynephalic transgenders" and only 10% real transgender statistic ?

2) What is your opinion about the effectiveness of the sex-change procedure giving that attempted suicide rate is 42% ? Only those who realistically look like a woman after the operation and are not autogynephalic have improved mental well-been. For those who do not, it only leads to more mental problems. If the sex-change operation is a good idea and most who take it are real transgenders not autogynephalic ones, where does the 42% suicide rate come from ? Why is the suicide rate increasing instead of decreasing after the operation? Could you say some words about those who manifest transgender regret like Mike Penner ? Statistics say there are quite a lot like him out there.

3) Could you address these statistics too and provide a link to a respectable study that contradicts the one presented in my previsious topic witch, by the way, is about teens not children ? (especially since teen are given hormones in the US before even reaching puberty, unlike what is happening in europe)
because people can't just give trans people the basic respect of treating them as what they are by their own volition.
4) Do you feel that people suffering from OCD are not given the right respect in our society because of the mental illness stigma ?

persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:19 pm

To get things straight, I have no problem with people who have a feminization fetish just like I don't have a problem with people having a BDSM fetish. I understand that autogynephalic transgenders to not like the fetish stigma because that would be hard to explain to their parents, to friends etc. The problem is that if you have such a fetish and undergo the operation, then you get bored of the new status quo just like they got bored of transvestism. This is the nature of fetish, the problem is craving not the external world.

If a person undergoes the operation because of a feminization fetish, he will simply not extract as much pleasure out of this as expected. And then he will be left with the associated problems without extracting any pleasure. This is where the 42% suicide rate comes from. Not only is this bad for the individual but it's also bad for society because such persons tend to be unemployed. Nobody is benefiting from this, not the transgender and not the society. Only people who are benefiting are plastic surgeons.

Those who are into BDSM may know from themselves not just from articles the problem with the rise of feminization and cuckhold porn. 10 years ago, there were almost no such videos. Now, feminization is nr 1 in the bdsm field and cuckhold also in top positions. This simply did not exist not long ago. Cuckholding also has a downside in making your partner leave you in 99% of the cases. I checked some forums about that out of curiosity, this is something they take for granted when pursuing this fetish. But they at least extract some pleasure out of thinking about how her partner is having fun with their new boyfriend and do not risk unemployment and high suicide risk. All in all, feminization and cuckholding are 2 very destructive fetishs if pursued to the extreme.

...there are some pleasures you have to abstain from in this world. And buddhist should know better.

A good article describing this phenomenon: https://transgenderreality.com/2015/06/ ... -me-trans/ (check the comments too. Many are happy they found out about this and stopped pursuing this fetish)

What do you have to say about those "hypnotic" porn videos that are supposed to make you a woman ? Teens are especially vulnerable to fall for this and ruin their lives just like Mike Penncer. Do you happen to know of any campaigns for rising awareness about this kind of problem ? I don't. The well been of so many people is sacrificed without anybody caring at all. Promoting leftism is more important than these innocent victims. And you're telling me you are the one caring about transgenders ? I say you're caring more about politics than about fellow humans.

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:39 pm

persecuted wrote:I can not open that book, it requires account. But yes, that is the statistic I am speaking about. Could you please link a respected scientific study contradicting that statistic ?

I see that you clam to be little more informed on the topic than the average leftist (you called others transphobics, I have all the right to call you leftist). Could you please address the "90% of transgender are autogynephalic transgenders" and only 10% real transgender statistic ?
I call and have called certain other people transphobic because their behaviour is transphobic, quite simple. If the shoe fits. Transphobia is being used as a term for subscribing to and proliferating ideologies that are antithetical to trans liberation and that encourage a lack of acceptance of trans peoples as equal to cisgendered peoples.

To be called a leftist is not an insult. Nor is to be called a transphobic individual an ad hominem. Transphobia is a label for a specific set of behaviors and ideologies. Honestly I'll just repeat what I said because if you had read it, you would not be asking that question of me.
Coëmgenu wrote:Your statistic is very popular in the US and UK as well, and frequently misquoted there by individuals who want to silence and deny transsexuals basic autonomy over their own bodies. It only applies to children, which the original study was about. It does not apply to adolescents or adults, and the children in the study did not want to surgically change their gender.
If you had read this you would see that I am not refuting the study. The study is a perfectly sound study concerning gender nonconforming behavior among children. To apply this study to adults is to misrepresent the study, as I said in my previous post to you. It is not necessary that I provide a counter-study to you because I am not refuting the study in question.
persecuted wrote:And what is your opinion about the effectiveness of the sex-change procedure giving that attempted suicide rate is 42% ? Only those who realistically look like a woman after the operation have improved mental well-been. For those who do not, it only leads to more mental problems. If the sex-change operation is a good idea and most who take it are real transgenders not autogynephalic ones,
Most countries that offer any sort of regulated medicare have an extensive screening processes to determine if interventionary sex-change surgery is, in fact, a medical necessity, or if it is not. Both for the benefit of the patient and for the benefit of the tax payer. After all, if the surgical intervention is not a medical necessity, the operation falls under the purview of cosmetic plastic surgery, and the state doesn't need to be paying for peoples' cosmetic surgery.

In order to address the suicide rate, it would be interesting to know how many of those individuals went through the proper medical channels in their home country (assuming their home country even a) had the resources to provide reputable medical channels for the screening of sex-change operations or b) regulated healthcare at all), and how many flew overseas to countries famous for sex-change operations, like Thailand, without any psychological counselling.
persecuted wrote: where does the 42% suicide rate come from ? Why is the suicide rate increasing instead of decreasing ? Could you say some words about those who manifest transgender regret like Mike Penner ? Statistics say there are quite a lot like him out there.
There are also homosexuals who feel such despair and horror at their orientation that they pursue what is called 'conversion therapy'. One could call this, "gay regret", although unlike post-transition dissatisfaction, it is not tied to a single event, but rather an identity. Many are able to stabilize their reactions to their social 'otherness', but a fair amount find more happiness and fulfillment as "Ex-gays", living functionally straight lives in loving relationships with women despite their homosexual sexual orientation, which they frame as 'same-sex-attraction' rather than orientation. It doesn't invalidate the lives of homosexuals who can live functional lives as homosexuals. It simply shows that people are different and prone to difference. Similarly, post-transition dissatisfaction does not invalidate those transsexuals who feel post-transition satisfaction and a dramatic lessening of their symptoms of gender dysphoria. Some transsexuals, like the homosexuals in the example given above, simply do not want to and/or cannot live lives as transsexuals, once the medical transition has altered their bodies in such a way as that they are visually identifiable as transsexuals in social settings. This is only one way of looking at the phenomenon of post-transition dissatisfaction, and one way in which that dissatisfaction sometimes arises. Here are some resources about post-transition dissatisfaction from a trans health website, which has associated academic links available to you if you hold the Academy in high regard. Post-transition satisfaction is just another factor that illustrates the need for the establishment and maintenance of proper medical channels for surgical intervention in cases of gender dysphoria.

Most of the transsexuals I know have elected not to undergo surgical intervention because of they do not believe that their genitalia is an important defining factor for their gender-presentation or gender-identity, since public nudity is a rarity in our culture. There is also an increasing growing trend among transsexuals to opt out of any medical alteration of the genitalia at all, on the basis that they are not satisfied with what changes current medical science is capable of producing, and because of the nascent discourse of "What's in my pants is my business not yours", to phrase it casually.

During the 90s, when sex-change operations first became available, there was a lot of misconceptions about what exactly the process was, what the result of the process was, and if the process was absolutely necessary for all transsexuals to live fulfilling lives without gender dysphoria impacting their quality of life. There will always be some people for whom surgical intervention is not necessary, or not safe, psychologically and/or medically. This just shows why it is very important that the surgery be regulated. If people opt to circumvent the medical establishment, and fly to a foreign country to pay for a sex-change in a private hospital, any post-transition dissatisfaction is really their own fault. Its a pity, but sometimes you dig your own grave.
persecuted wrote:Could you address these statistics too and provide a link to a respectable study that contradicts the one presented in my previsious topic witch, by the way, is about teens not children ?
What do you mean by your previous topic? Do you mean your previous post? If it is off-topic here we can discuss it over PM.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

persecuted
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by persecuted » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:41 pm

If you had read this you would see that I am not refuting the study. The study is a perfectly sound study concerning gender nonconforming behavior among children.
You mean in people below 18 years old ? That includes teens. Calling them children is misleading.
In order to address the suicide rate, it would be interesting to know how many of those individuals went through the proper medical channels in their home country
Proper medical treatment of transgender is only avaliable in Europe. If you want to know the situation in US, check the article posted by me. In the US, identity politics and capitalism had won the day as usual.
This just shows why it is very important that the surgery be regulated. If people opt to circumvent the medical establishment, and fly to a foreign country to pay for a sex-change in a private hospital, any post-transition dissatisfaction is really their own fault. Its a pity, but sometimes you dig your own grave.
I completely agree. But what do you do if therapist (social workers, not even psychologist) are behaving like in the US, doing their best to rush people in taking the operation, even children ? Do you know any organization rising awareness about this problem ? The "90% of transgenders are autogynephalic" and the 42% suicide rate statistics kinda say this is a widespread problem.


Have you read this ? https://transgenderreality.com/2015/06/ ... -me-trans/ Any words ?

I say mother europe knows better at least on this topic.... I say identity politics have gone too far in US and UK...

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6629
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: North Carolina's "bathroom law."

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:15 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: Hi Chownah,
I believe the issue is some don't understand gender is (in this case particularly) not the psychological rather the physical. A transsexual actually has gender dysphoria and aims to be the oposite sex.
Kind regards
Cittasanto
True, allowances and compromises are made in the form of an artificially construed "sex-gender dichotomy", in order that biological essentialists and transphobic individuals can be mildly placated and can join the general discourse held by the rest of us who do not have such hang-ups, in the hopes that they can be at least educated remedially as to why transsexuals deserve basic respect.

Ask any transexual if they feel their true gender is any different from their sex. You will get a very telling answer.

Also this is presented backwards. The general appearance of the sex-gender dichotomy is that sex is biological, gender is psychological.
yet none of this actually addresses the concerns regarding the law.

you can claim all sorts but it doesn't change the fact that in the case of the law gender should be understood as sex. and considering gender and genital has the same root (genus)... It is not the psychological gender being referred to but the anatomical, this is not something new but rather the . This is because we are talking about toilets.

To further this explanation (which I have stated earlier) to quote two medical dictionaries which do differentiate (as is appropriate to do) between gender identity and gender.
gender
Type: Term
Pronunciation: jen′dĕr
Definitions:
1. Category to which an individual is assigned by self or others, on the basis of sex.
http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldicti ... hp?t=36609

gender identity
Type: Term
Definitions:
1. the consistency and persistence of one's individuality as male, female, or androgynous. Particularly as experienced in self-awareness; the internalized representation of gender role.
http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldicti ... hp?t=43370

2 entries found.
1: gender (noun)
2: gender identity (noun)

Main Entry: gen·der
Pronunciation: \ˈjen-dər\
Function: noun
1: sex
2: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex
http://c.merriam-webster.com/medlineplus/gender

Kind Regards
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests