International Men's Day

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International Men's Day

Post by Ben » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:45 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: International Men's Day

Post by ryanM » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:27 pm

Finally! Much deserved.
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya

"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"

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Re: International Men's Day

Post by Dan74 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:49 am

I am a great fan of the First Dog, but he could've done better this time I feel, Ben. I mean he spends many of his cartoons right drawing attention to endangered species, but when it comes to me, there is the awkward leftie shuffling around 'well, we are meant to be the privileged gender, umm... we don't need extra attention probably'. Maybe this is true for Andrew Marlton, but there are sure as heck millions of men who don't feel that way.

There is one frame where he mentions high rates of suicide among men but there are many other issues. Many of us feel criminalised by all the talk of domestic violence perpetrated by men and child abuse. I've been helping a friend who was physically abused by his ex-wife and when he tried to look for help, there was none. He was suicidal for a while as well. The family law system is also quite unfair on many fathers who try to have fair arrangements to see their children. The rate of suicides among them is 7 times higher than among women, I believe. Maybe this is saying something?

Unfortunately people tend to see it as a black-and-white issue - either your support women's rights or if you talk about men's rights, you are a chauvinist pig. To me, there are obviously serious issues with domestic violence against women, pervasive sexism and objectifying women in our society. But there are also serious issues affecting men's rights and especially men's well-being.

Often some interest groups succeed in promoting their cause and both the money and the public attention is allocated disproportionately. It is not that the cause is unjust or the money and attention are not well-spent, but a matter of balance and priorities. A very simple quantifiable example that was pointed out to me recently was the number of fatalities from prostate cancer and breast cancer, and the respective funds allocated for research on each (breast cancer is about double of the prostate cancer). There may of course be an explanation I am missing for this. ... statistics ... statistics ... report.pdf


In any case, it is a very strange picture that emerges if we look at what are our greatest challenges are and what do we actually pay most attention to. They don't match too well, IMO.

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Re: International Men's Day

Post by Modus.Ponens » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:13 am

Dan, you cisgendered heteronormative white male, stop calling attention for any problem that men may have. It's offensive to try to raise awareness to half the world's population problems. :tongue:

Amyway on International Man's Day at least I can have fun ridiculing postmodernists and their view of the world. Long live equality! True equality!
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Re: International Men's Day

Post by SDC » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:48 pm

I do not feel bad, nor responsible, for the shortcomings of other men -- just based on the fact that I am a man. All bad behavior is unfortunate, but failure to be a good person is on that person, and I am under no obligation to set that record straight for anyone (even though I may incidentally do so through my own good behavior). I also do not feel any sort of exclusive 'men only' sympathy for what they go through based on our common attributes. It is beyond unappealing to try and foster compassion this way.

Compassion should not be based on anything other than the fact that others are there, and that they are in need of support. And if such a view was promoted just as hard as the multitude of condition-specific, cause-based, case-by-case channels of compassion it would have a far more lasting effect. This idea that the world needs to be educated about a specific type of mistreatment before they can see that it is wrong, and are able to show compassion, is absolutely ridiculous. If you have to sit there and convince another that compassion is needed than that person needs an education on compassion in general, not on that specific cause being described.

The wonderful thing about metta is that it emphasizes such a broad view that there is no need to convince the world that the situation requires our attention and compassion. We all have suffering in common and that should be enough to give reason to treat others well. This way when it comes to our attention that "this is happening to such and such a group" there is not a second thought as to whether or not compassion is justified -- we would already know it is justified.

If we keep letting history tell us what is immediately present we are going to waste a good deal of time. There is opportunity to take care of another and we should know, based on our own tendency to experience suffering, that helping is well worth it.

Just my take.

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Re: International Men's Day

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:15 pm

SDC wrote:Just my take.
Mine too. Well said.

Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: International Men's Day

Post by samseva » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:14 pm

SDC wrote:[…]
Nicely said, SDC.


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