Global Warming: Recent Data

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:41 pm

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:39 am

If the planet is under threat and you personally think it is, as you say, then your defence of Trump is quite weird. (I'm sorry, but I can't be any more polite than that.) Can you give us your reasons?
To begin with I don't consider Trump bashing a healthy activity, neither for oneself nor for society. He was duly elected President of the United States and his views ought to be considered without the incessant mockery and distortion that borders on dishonesty. I suppose it comes down to tolerance and the importance one places on the need to compromise for the sake of social harmony.

I agree that "Trump bashing" is unhealthy, as is "incessant mockery and distortion" of his views. On the other hand, I think we have a moral duty to speak out against the evil and corrupt actions of those in power.
As for considering his views, I've done that (as much as anyone can discern them through his smokescreen of lies and evasions) and I have not been impressed at all.
As for climate change, President Trump has conceded that it is real, though he is conflicted about the impact dealing with it might have on the American economy. In his eyes the Paris Agreement was a bad deal for America, especially when considering the negligible commitments from China and India which pose the real threat to the future of the planet.
Look at his deeds. He has actively opposed and undermined Obama-era energy reforms within the US from the moment he took office. In that context, conceding that climate change is real is purely window-dressing.
Even outside of the accord the U.S. still continues to push for cleaner energy and is developing the technology to achieve that goal. It's no surprise that many are ambivalent about whether the U.S. is in the accord or not.
Correction: "The US" does not continue to push for cleaner energy or develop the technology to achieve that goal. Individuals, cities and states are doing that (and I applaud them for it) in the face of wholesale opposition from the US government.

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Paris accord: Syria plans to join climate agreement, leaving US only country opposed


Syria has announced it intends to join the 2015 Paris agreement for slowing climate change, leaving the United States as the only country in the world opposed to the pact.

Syria, racked by civil war, and Nicaragua were the only two nations outside the 195-nation pact when it was agreed in 2015.

Nicaragua's left-wing Government, which originally denounced the plan as too weak, signed up last month.

"I would like to affirm the Syrian Arab Republic's commitment to the Paris climate change accord," deputy Environment Minister Wadah Katmawi told a meeting of almost 200 countries at the November 6-17 climate talks in Bonn, Germany.

Membership for Syria under President Bashar al-Assad would isolate the United States, the world's biggest economy and second largest greenhouse gas emitter behind China, as the only nation opposed to the accord. ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-08/s ... us/9128586

:namaste:
Kim

chownah
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:25 pm

I don't recall this report being mentioned in this thread but I very well could have missed it. It was published a year ago. It is about a study of the errors in the climate science papers that the nay sayers use to support their views:
"Learning from mistakes in climate research"
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 015-1597-5
The Abstract:
Among papers stating a position on anthropogenic global warming (AGW), 97 % endorse AGW. What is happening with the 2 % of papers that reject AGW? We examine a selection of papers rejecting AGW. An analytical tool has been developed to replicate and test the results and methods used in these studies; our replication reveals a number of methodological flaws, and a pattern of common mistakes emerges that is not visible when looking at single isolated cases. Thus, real-life scientific disputes in some cases can be resolved, and we can learn from mistakes. A common denominator seems to be missing contextual information or ignoring information that does not fit the conclusions, be it other relevant work or related geophysical data. In many cases, shortcomings are due to insufficient model evaluation, leading to results that are not universally valid but rather are an artifact of a particular experimental setup. Other typical weaknesses include false dichotomies, inappropriate statistical methods, or basing conclusions on misconceived or incomplete physics. We also argue that science is never settled and that both mainstream and contrarian papers must be subject to sustained scrutiny. The merit of replication is highlighted and we discuss how the quality of the scientific literature may benefit from replication.
chownah

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:32 pm
Paris accord: Syria plans to join climate agreement, leaving US only country opposed


Syria has announced it intends to join the 2015 Paris agreement for slowing climate change, leaving the United States as the only country in the world opposed to the pact.

Syria, racked by civil war, and Nicaragua were the only two nations outside the 195-nation pact when it was agreed in 2015.

Nicaragua's left-wing Government, which originally denounced the plan as too weak, signed up last month.

"I would like to affirm the Syrian Arab Republic's commitment to the Paris climate change accord," deputy Environment Minister Wadah Katmawi told a meeting of almost 200 countries at the November 6-17 climate talks in Bonn, Germany.

Membership for Syria under President Bashar al-Assad would isolate the United States, the world's biggest economy and second largest greenhouse gas emitter behind China, as the only nation opposed to the accord. ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-08/s ... us/9128586

:namaste:
Kim

Its not like signing agreements actually does anything... People need to stick to them, which they never will while some relative advantage can be gained by not doing so.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am
Its not like signing agreements actually does anything...
That's nearly true, but signing is a symbolic act, and symbols do have value.
Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am
People need to stick to them, which they never will while some relative advantage can be gained by not doing so.
In this case, the 'relative advantage' is on the side of those who do act. Firstly because the sooner we act, the less it will cost us. Secondly because the people and countries who get in quickest will become leaders in the industries of the future. That's already happening, of course - look at what China is making out of its solar and wind manufacturing. :jawdrop: The US is falling behind pretty fast and may end up in the position of Communist Eastern Europe, stuck with the oldest, dirtiest and least efficient industrial infrastructure.

Anyhow, smart people are pushing ahead with implementation of the Paris agreement -
The UN hopes to create an “operating manual” for implementing the Paris agreement on climate change, with talks in the next two weeks in Bonn.

“We want to advance further, faster, together to meet the goals set out in the Paris agreement,” said Patricia Espinosa, the UN’s chief official on the climate, at the opening of the talks. “We need an operating manual for the Paris agreement. This has to be the launchpad for the next level of ambition on climate change action, because we know the pledges [to cut emissions] made so far are not enough to take us to [meeting the Paris goals].”

...The EU is soon expected to set out its own progress on meeting its emissions-cutting target, and how it intends to ensure its 2030 target of a 40% emissions cut is met.

Discussions would also take place on climate finance, which involves ways of helping poorer countries to cut their emissions, Espinosa promised. She declined to give any targets on how much finance should be raised and where it should come from, but said the outlook was positive. “There is a very clear tendency going in the direction of green financing,” she said, referring to estimates that more money worldwide is going into low-carbon projects.

She also said the US delegation was present and taking a full part in the talks. President Donald Trump announced last summer his intention to begin the withdrawal process, the only country to have done so. Despite this, the US will be party to the agreement until 2020, as the the withdrawal process will take several years.

The UN said 169 countries of the 197 signed up to the Paris agreement had now ratified it.
More - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... is-says-un
More still - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... conference

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:39 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am
In this case, the 'relative advantage' is on the side of those who do act. Firstly because the sooner we act, the less it will cost us. Secondly because the people and countries who get in quickest will become leaders in the industries of the future.
Those are medium and long term advantages - and I agree with you that they are real advantages, and will deliver to those countries which pursue them.

But for as long as countries can increase their economic output in the short term, generate jobs, and raise standards of living (all of which is to say, bribe the electorate with wealth in exchange for votes) with short term tactics like building coal power stations, they will.

The UN hopes to create an “operating manual” for implementing the Paris agreement on climate change, with talks in the next two weeks in Bonn.

“We want to advance further, faster, together to meet the goals set out in the Paris agreement,” said Patricia Espinosa, the UN’s chief official on the climate, at the opening of the talks. “We need an operating manual for the Paris agreement. This has to be the launchpad for the next level of ambition on climate change action, because we know the pledges [to cut emissions] made so far are not enough to take us to [meeting the Paris goals].”

...The EU is soon expected to set out its own progress on meeting its emissions-cutting target, and how it intends to ensure its 2030 target of a 40% emissions cut is met.

Discussions would also take place on climate finance, which involves ways of helping poorer countries to cut their emissions, Espinosa promised. She declined to give any targets on how much finance should be raised and where it should come from, but said the outlook was positive. “There is a very clear tendency going in the direction of green financing,” she said, referring to estimates that more money worldwide is going into low-carbon projects.

She also said the US delegation was present and taking a full part in the talks. President Donald Trump announced last summer his intention to begin the withdrawal process, the only country to have done so. Despite this, the US will be party to the agreement until 2020, as the the withdrawal process will take several years.

The UN said 169 countries of the 197 signed up to the Paris agreement had now ratified it
This is all just talk, as people have been talking for years. Doing is harder than talking, which means people would rather talk about their 'intentions', their 'ambitions', their 'participation', but it's all just talk.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:49 am

And then there's this ... https://www.wearestillin.com/DayOfAction2017

:thumbsup:
Kim

pulga
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am
The US is falling behind pretty fast and may end up in the position of Communist Eastern Europe...
I kind of doubt that.
Prior to the building of more gigafactories (see below), Tesla may expand and potentially double the size of Gigafactory 1. In June 2015, Tesla announced it exercised its option to buy 1,864 acres (754 hectares) of land adjacent to the original 1,000-acre (400 ha) Gigafactory site. Tesla spokeswoman Alexis Georgeson. "The purchase gives us the opportunity for future growth."
Gigafactory 1

China is adept at taking advantage of such technology, but the U.S. will be the primary source for its development.

When it comes to coal -- which is clearly on its way out in the U.S. -- exports continue to soar due to Europe and China's insatiable need for fossil fuels. As even the left-leaning Reuters has the honesty to concede....

U.S. coal exports soar, in boost to Trump energy agenda, data shows

As a business man President Trump saw the Paris Agreement for what it is -- a dog and pony show, the sort of bureaucratic nonsense that means nothing in the real world. All of its "commitments" are "voluntary", which is a glaring reminder that the agreement is nothing but a symbolic act of little or no consequence.

Thankfully, even when it comes to coal, as the U.S. phases it out domestically it is investing in the technology to burn it more cleanly.

Natural Gas Plant Makes A Play For Coal's Market, Using 'Clean' Technology

Many environmentalists are against developing such technology, regarding it as counterproductive to expanding the use of solar and wind as our source of energy. But at this point in time solar and wind aren't viable alternatives to fossil fuels. The transition needs to be made, but it needs to be approached realistically and honestly. It's going to take time.

chownah
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm

pulga wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm


Thankfully, even when it comes to coal, as the U.S. phases it out domestically it is investing in the technology to burn it more cleanly.

Natural Gas Plant Makes A Play For Coal's Market, Using 'Clean' Technology

Many environmentalists are against developing such technology, regarding it as counterproductive to expanding the use of solar and wind as our source of energy. But at this point in time solar and wind aren't viable alternatives to fossil fuels. The transition needs to be made, but it needs to be approached realistically and honestly. It's going to take time.
I'm not sure why you brought this link. It is not about clean coal. It is about how clean coal is being abandoned I think. Here is some information about the problems which seem to be the death knell of "clean coal":
http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... UUnvFLVkNn
https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 5Gp9UC0NT-
chownah

chownah
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:17 pm

pulga wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am
The US is falling behind pretty fast and may end up in the position of Communist Eastern Europe...
I kind of doubt that.
Prior to the building of more gigafactories (see below), Tesla may expand and potentially double the size of Gigafactory 1. In June 2015, Tesla announced it exercised its option to buy 1,864 acres (754 hectares) of land adjacent to the original 1,000-acre (400 ha) Gigafactory site. Tesla spokeswoman Alexis Georgeson. "The purchase gives us the opportunity for future growth."
Gigafactory 1

China is adept at taking advantage of such technology, but the U.S. will be the primary source for its development.
Maybe china is doing more than you know about....here is an article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -batteries
which contains this:
As Elon Musk races to finish building the world’s biggest battery factory in the Nevada desert, China is poised to leave him in the dust.


Chinese companies have plans for additional factories with the capacity to pump out more than 120 gigawatt-hours a year by 2021, according to a report published this week by Bloomberg Intelligence. That’s enough to supply batteries for around 1.5 million Tesla Model S vehicles or 13.7 million Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrids per year, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.


By comparison, when completed in 2018, Tesla Inc.’s Gigafactory will crank out up to 35 gigawatt-hours of battery cells annually.
and this:
“This is about industrial policy. The Chinese government sees lithium-ion batteries as a hugely important industry in the 2020s and beyond,” Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst Colin McKerracher said.
While china has lith-ion batteries as a hugely important industry it seems that trump has coal mining as a hugely important industry.....hard to imagine that coal is going to be a hugely important industry in the future since it is so dirty in many ways and if it is found to be possible to clean it up (so far it has not been shown to be viable) that will surely increase its cost while there is still no end in sight for the lowering of prices for solar and wind.
chownah
chownah

pulga
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:54 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:17 pm


Maybe china is doing more than you know about....here is an article:...
That's great news, though I still contend that the technology will still continue to come from the U.S.. If automation ever does kick in in a big way, the U.S. will be in a position to drastically increase its production. As of now China has the upper-hand solely due to its lack of environmental regulations and low labor costs.

In the U.S. natural gas is replacing coal in its generation of electricity. (The downside of course is all the fracking that is necessary to supply the natural gas.) On a human level I can understand President Trump's dilemma. It is hard for him to see the suffering brought on by the decline in our domestic coal market, though he seems to have found a way to drastically increase our exports to those countries who now pride themselves for being members of the Paris Agreement. I tend to see a narrative far more nuanced than the one being fed to us by the social engineers from above.

pulga
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:15 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm

I'm not sure why you brought this link. It is not about clean coal. ...
The link has more to do with the technology itself. As it is applied to coal, the PBS Newshour aired a story on it back in June 2017:


User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:00 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm
hard to imagine that coal is going to be a hugely important industry in the future
Plentiful, cheap, energy store, easily converted to heat and power, without the need for advanced technology. Coal will be the first choice of any developing nation for a while to come.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

chownah
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:16 pm

pulga wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:15 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm

I'm not sure why you brought this link. It is not about clean coal. ...
The link has more to do with the technology itself. As it is applied to coal, the PBS Newshour aired a story on it back in June 2017:

[mediahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fxrs1a7fD0&t=283s/media]
As the video says, the cost will go up when the coal cleaning technology is added.
What the reality is right now is that wind and solar are already cheaper than coal in alot of places (but not everywhere yet) and are projected to keep getting cheaper as time goes on. I think that a resurgence in coal is mostly wishful thinking. Already people in the energy industry are saying that when battery prices come down a bit more there will be a watershed moment where suddenly solar and wind will just take over and things will change very quickly.....looks like china will be well positioned for this when it happens since they are putting this technology on the fast track.
chownah

pulga
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:42 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:16 pm
Already people in the energy industry are saying that when battery prices come down a bit more there will be a watershed moment where suddenly solar and wind will just take over and things will change very quickly.....looks like china will be well positioned for this when it happens since they are putting this technology on the fast track.
If President Trump is successful in bringing back manufacturing to the U.S. -- though I concede that it probably won't bring back as many jobs as many hope -- it will be a win-win for both countries. For now I don't think that solar and wind are as viable as is being let on. How big a battery in feasible in trying to store the electricity from solar and wind to run whole cities continuously 24/7? That degree of technology may be a long ways off. Right now they're just focused on storing enough power to run an automobile, not an electrical power plant.

There are reasons why both solar and wind were being so heavily subsidized in the U.S.. It will be interesting to see the impact a reduction in subsidies is going to have on the industry in the U.S.. Up until and including last year a person could take a 30% tax credit on their investment in such alternative energy sources. Most of the money the U.S. was supposedly "investing" in alternative energy sources was in the form of such subsidies, most of which benefited wealthier Americans. Though I don't begrudge the fact, since they are the ones paying most of the taxes.

chownah
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:49 am

pulga wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:42 pm
For now I don't think that solar and wind are as viable as is being let on. How big a battery in feasible in trying to store the electricity from solar and wind to run whole cities continuously 24/7? That degree of technology may be a long ways off. Right now they're just focused on storing enough power to run an automobile, not an electrical power plant.
Seems you are not keeping up with what is happening already in the world today. Tesla is half way through the construction of a 100 megawatt battery system for a huge wind powered generating utility in australia.....the technology is not a long way off...it is here today and being implemented already:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... f-complete
Also, tesla installed a PV system with battery storage in puerto rico for an entire hospital. That hospital gets all of its electricity needs satisfied from that installation.....there are other examples and if you search on the net I think you will find them.....a community in hawaii comes to mind....
chownah

pulga
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:59 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:49 am

Tesla is half way through the construction of a 100 megawatt battery system for a huge wind powered generating utility in australia.....the technology is not a long way off...it is here today and being implemented already:...
That is impressive. I did a quick google search and apparently it should be able to supply power to up to 100,000 homes. Let's hope that Tesla can pull it off. Still I think it is going to take some time to replace the fossil fuel generation of electricity with solar and wind. Generally implementation follows what is most cost effective. In the U.S. natural gas generation is replacing coal, not solely because it is cleaner but because it is less expensive. The question is when will alternative energy become cheaper than its more pollutive counterparts. It is a noble effort, and as I said before I have no qualms about subsidizing such technology so long as the money is spent wisely.

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4539
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:03 am

Good to see such a constructive conversation going on while I wasn't around - :thanks:

Can I just add that batteries are far from the only storage solution?
Pumped hydro - using excess solar/wind/tidal power to pump water from a low dam to a higher one, and using the hydro power when the sun sets and the wind drops - is a proven technology which is doing well. See http://energystorage.org/energy-storage ... ic-storage
Molten salt storage has been used by solar farms for some years. It's just one form of thermal energy storage - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage

:reading:
Kim

chownah
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:08 am

pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:59 am
The question is when will alternative energy become cheaper than its more pollutive counterparts.
Solar and wind are already the cheapest source of energy in many places and situations already. If you google something like 'power generation cheapest' or something similar I think you may be surprised at what you see. It is the intermitten nature of these sources which keep them from completely taking over but the advances in battery technology and the decrease in cost through mass production will soon bring the cost of battery storage to a level where fossil fuel plants will be clearly seen as obsolete and will be close even before they have run their life cycles. Estimates of how long this will take are often in the five to ten year range.....but really it just depends on how fast the cost of batteries drops....and every year it keeps dropping.....china sees this very well and is doing alot to spur research an investment in alernative energy at all levels.
chownah

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2493
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by robertk » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:19 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:08 am
pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:59 am
The question is when will alternative energy become cheaper than its more pollutive counterparts.
Solar and wind are already the cheapest source of energy in many places and situations already. If you google something like 'power generation cheapest' or something similar I think you may be surprised at what you see. It is the intermitten nature of these sources which keep them from completely taking over but the advances in battery technology and the decrease in cost through mass production will soon bring the cost of battery storage to a level where fossil fuel plants will be clearly seen as obsolete and will be close even before they have run their life cycles. Estimates of how long this will take are often in the five to ten year range.....but really it just depends on how fast the cost of batteries drops....and every year it keeps dropping.....china sees this very well and is doing alot to spur research an investment in alernative energy at all levels.
chownah

I wonder why China is building so many coal stations over the next decade?
Chinese companies to build 700 coal plants in and outside China
1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries
Andrew Topf | Oct. 8, 2017, 4:35 PM

http://www.mining.com/chinese-companies ... ide-china/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests