Global Warming: Recent Data

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chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:31 am

Scientific update on the shrinking american mountain glaciers and reminder that climate change can be clearly seen by those who look with eyes open:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-apos ... 33286.html
chownah

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:10 pm

People have expressed concern that electric vehicles would not emit less greenhouse gases than fossil fuel powered cars if the electric vehicles were charged up using fossil fuel powered electrical generation. The idea is that in generating the electricity to charge the electric vehicles more greenhouse gas would be generated and it would be better to just power the cars with the fossil fuel. This study shows that electric vehicles even when charged up with fossil fuel powered electrical generation do in fact emit less greenhouse gas than diesel powered cars:
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/ ... tudy-finds
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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:46 pm

Thanks, Chownah.
Here's the original Guardian report in case anyone wants to read it all - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tudy-finds
And here's another story your link led me to - http://business.financialpost.com/trans ... e-industry
All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years in twin ‘death spiral’ for big oil and big autos, says study that’s shocking the industries

This speedy revolution, a Stanford economist says, will be driven by technology, not climate policies — and while his timing may be off a few years, there is little doubt about the direction

No more petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will be sold anywhere in the world within eight years. The entire market for land transport will switch to electrification, leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century.

This is the futuristic forecast by Stanford University economist Tony Seba. His report, with the deceptively bland title Rethinking Transportation 2020-2030, has gone viral in green circles and is causing spasms of anxiety in the established industries.

We are on the cusp of one of the fastest, deepest, most consequential disruptions of transportation in history

Seba’s premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. ...

The cost per mile for EVs will be 6.8 cents, rendering petrol cars obsolete. Insurance costs will fall by 90 per cent. The average American household will save $5,600 per year by making the switch. The US government will lose $50 billion a year in fuel taxes. ...
:jawdrop:

I knew it was coming but the speed surprises me.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:02 pm

Filling in the most challenging gaps in our knowledge with some clever science:
Narwhal recruits track melting Arctic ice

By Pat Brennan,
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Don’t bother trying to attach radio transmitters to narwhals, the “unicorns of the sea,” says marine ecologist Kristin Laidre.

These tusked Arctic whales are so hard to find they might as well be actual unicorns.

“They’re one of the worst study animals ever,” said Laidre, who tagged narwhals to gather data on their icy environment. “They’re just really, really difficult. They are shy, they are elusive, they are sneaky. You can spend a month in the field and barely see a narwhal.”

Still, the narwhals have become unlikely allies in NASA’s efforts to understand Greenland’s rapidly changing ice sheet. In a cooperative arrangement meant to improve understanding of both narwhal behavior and melting glaciers, the data gathered by tagged narwhals will help fill an important scientific goal in a NASA project called Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG).

This multipronged endeavor seeks precision data on where, how, and how fast the relatively warm ocean waters are melting Greenland’s ice. NASA is attacking the problem by ship, plane and floating sensor.

But measuring the ocean near Greenland’s glaciers can be a major challenge even from a ship because of heavy sea ice and fjords choked with icebergs. That’s where the narwhals come in. ...
:reading: https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2643/narw ... rctic-ice/


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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:17 pm

Here's a local (for me) story with global implications:
Adani’s Australia Story: How a Massive Coal Mine is Sparking a New Wave of Environmental Concerns

This is the third story in a five-part series that examines the controversial Adani and Carmichael coal mine. Read the first and second part.

The Great Barrier Reef is one of the great natural wonders of the world. It stretches over 2,300 kilometres in length and spans over an area equal to 344,000 square kilometres, roughly the size of Germany. It consists of 2,900 individual reefs and is home to 10% of the world’s fish species. It is a remarkably bio-diverse ecosystem, and is the largest structure in the world made up of living organisms. It is even visible from outer space. Unsurprisingly, it attracts over two million visitors each year, giving shape to a tourism industry that contributes A$ 6.4 billion to Australia’s economy annually – about 0.5% of the country’s gross domestic product (GDP). It supports 64,000 jobs in tourism.

The reef is dying already, with or without the Adani coal mine. “The Great Barrier Reef is a sensitive eco-system and has borne the brunt of climate change for the past several years. For it to survive, we need to take drastic steps to reduce global warming by moving in the direction of zero emissions, and not build this massive coal mine”, said Imogen Zethoven, Great Barrier Reef campaign director at the Australian Marine Conservation Society. ...

The hitherto largely untapped Galilee basin stretches over approximately 247,000 square kilometres, larger in size than the United Kingdom. It contains an estimated 20 billion tonnes of coal, which if loaded onto a single train, it would stretch up to 2.5 million kilometres. If all the proposed mines in the Galilee basin were built, they would emit 700 million tonnes of carbon dioxide each year, making it the seventh largest polluting country in the world, if it were a country.

Using up precious ground water

The Great Artesian Basin is one of the world’s largest underground fresh water reservoirs. It underlies a vast 1.7 million square kilometres of area, occupying 22% of Australia. It is the only reliable source of fresh water supply for large parts of the arid and semi-arid regions of Queensland, New South Wales, South Australia and the Northern Territory.

In March, the Queensland government granted the Adani group an unrestricted license for sixty years to use groundwater from the Great Artesian basin for the purpose of the mine. It is estimated that the Carmichael coal mine could use as much as 26 million litres of water a day from the basin. ...
https://thewire.in/193156/adanis-austra ... -concerns/

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:32 am

Trump’s White House just declared that humans are responsible for all recent warming

:jawdrop:
But it's true: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-nationa ... 0781f7a9a/
On Friday, the Trump administration released the congressionally mandated National Climate Assessment, the “authoritative assessment of the science of climate change, with a focus on the United States,” as the report states.

What’s so stunning about the 600-page report, the work of scientists from 13 federal agencies, is that the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) oversaw the final review and clearance process of the report — and yet the report details just how dangerous the Trump administration’s policy of climate science denial is to Americans.

The National Climate Assessment (NCA) projects a devastated America — widespread Dust-Bowlification, 18°F Arctic warming, sea levels rising a foot a decade — on our current path of unrestricted carbon pollution. The report makes clear just how grave a threat are Trump’s plans to abandon the Paris climate deal, undo Obama-era climate rules, and boost carbon pollution.

Indeed, the report explicitly states that if governments don’t meet their Paris targets, and then go beyond them, catastrophic impacts would be inevitable. ...

Furthermore, the report warns that “climate models are more likely to underestimate than to overestimate the amount of long-term future change,” so there is a greater chance things will be worse than the report lays out than they will be better.

To get to the more manageable “lower emissions” scenario, the nation and the world must far exceed the emissions reduction goals agreed to in Paris in December 2015. Trump’s decision to withdraw the U.S. from the Paris accord and kill actions aimed at meeting our commitment puts the world on track for a “higher emissions” scenario that leads to unimaginable impacts. ...
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:17 pm

President Trump has offered time and again to renegotiate the Paris Agreement, his primary complaints against the previous accord being the incommensurable burden it placed on the U.S. -- especially when compared to China and India -- and the fact that it was neither debated nor approved by Congress. If the situation is so dire, why is there such a reluctance to take him up on his offer?

chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:09 pm

pulga wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:17 pm
President Trump has offered time and again to renegotiate the Paris Agreement, his primary complaints against the previous accord being the incommensurable burden it placed on the U.S. -- especially when compared to China and India -- and the fact that it was neither debated nor approved by Congress. If the situation is so dire, why is there such a reluctance to take him up on his offer?
I think trump wants to reduce the US committment which is something the other signators are not willing to do.

If trump really wants to renegotiate then he could just write a policy paper (or have someone in his amin. write it) as a means for starting discussion....but he hasn't done that or at least I haven't heard of him doing this. It is surprising that anyone would believe that trump is interested in renegotiating just because he says he is....he is a serial liar....
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:03 pm

Considering that the President took the first step in making the offer, I think it would behoove the international community to consider it rather than to reject it out of hand. The Paris Agreement was controversial in American society, not solely over the issue of climate change, but by the way it was negotiated. We had little if any representation in its drafting. Everything was left up to the Obama Administration, and the deal which would have had a far reaching impact on every American for years to come was approved by executive order, as if President Obama were some sort of dictator. Such globalism may be acceptable to some, but to many of us there was an injustice about it.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 am

pulga wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:03 pm
Considering that the President took the first step in making the offer, I think it would behoove the international community to consider it rather than to reject it out of hand. The Paris Agreement was controversial in American society, not solely over the issue of climate change, but by the way it was negotiated. We had little if any representation in its drafting. Everything was left up to the Obama Administration, and the deal which would have had a far reaching impact on every American for years to come was approved by executive order, as if President Obama were some sort of dictator. Such globalism may be acceptable to some, but to many of us there was an injustice about it.
This kind of pleading might make some kind of sense if Trump's position made any sense (it doesn't) or his track record on climate was better (it's appalling).
Trump's position, as Chownah said, is that he wants to reduce America's commitment. The global consensus is that the Paris commitments are not going to be enough to avoid serious climate impacts even if everyone does all they have promised to do, so we need bigger commitments, not less. (Not just from the US, of course - from everyone.)
And Trump has appointed a bunch of climate deniers, climate ignoramuses and fossil-fuel-industry insiders and shills to every possible position in science and energy departments.
See, for instance, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... 959cf80a65, https://insideclimatenews.org/news/0911 ... nge-denier and https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-skeptics from late 2016. It has only gotten worse since then, but that initial lot came up first in my search.
And note that these were presidential appointments. How are they any less 'dictatorial' than Obama's executive order??

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:20 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 am

And note that these were presidential appointments. How are they any less 'dictatorial' than Obama's executive order??
Presidential appointments have to be confirmed by our representatives in the U.S. Senate.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:27 am

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:20 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 am

And note that these were presidential appointments. How are they any less 'dictatorial' than Obama's executive order??
Presidential appointments have to be confirmed by our representatives in the U.S. Senate.
And the Senate was controlled by ... ta da! ... Republicans!! ... who had just been swept into power by a wave of Trumpism :jumping: and hadn't yet learned that the man couldn't be trusted :spy: with anything more complicated than a can-opener. :toilet:
(To their credit, they are gradually learning.)

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chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:46 am

pulga wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:03 pm
Considering that the President took the first step in making the offer, I think it would behoove the international community to consider it rather than to reject it out of hand.
He did not make an offer.....he just said he wanted to renegotiate....saying you want to negotiate is not making an offer. The international community considered what he said (which was basically just 'I would be interested in renegotiating') and they did what everyone (including trump) expected....they just took it as so much more wind coming out of a liars mouth.....but this doesn't bother trump because it keeps the issue open without him having to take any position whatever. This gives him plausible deniability for anyone who tries to show his failings and it frees him up to do whatever he wants and to take any position he wants in the future. It is political weaseling....it is not an offer to actually do something to move forward....it is bullstuff....the international community sees this and they aren't going to waste their time just because trump holds up a hoop. Seems like you think the international community serves to jump just because trump mentions an issue.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:56 am

chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:46 am
He did not make an offer.....he just said he wanted to renegotiate....
On the contrary: he never said he wanted to renegotiate the agreement, but rather expressed a willingness to do so, i.e. he made an offer. If the planet is under threat -- and personally I think it is -- the globalists ought to take him up on that offer. All their whining and chicken little hysterics only play in Trump's favor. If they keep it up, they'll be contributing to his re-election in 2020.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:39 am

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:56 am
chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:46 am
He did not make an offer.....he just said he wanted to renegotiate....
On the contrary: he never said he wanted to renegotiate the agreement, but rather expressed a willingness to do so, i.e. he made an offer. If the planet is under threat -- and personally I think it is -- the globalists ought to take him up on that offer. All their whining and chicken little hysterics only play in Trump's favor. If they keep it up, they'll be contributing to his re-election in 2020.
If the planet is under threat and you personally think it is, as you say, then your defence of Trump is quite weird. (I'm sorry, but I can't be any more polite than that.) Can you give us your reasons?

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:00 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 am
... And Trump has appointed a bunch of climate deniers, climate ignoramuses and fossil-fuel-industry insiders and shills to every possible position in science and energy departments.
See, for instance, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... 959cf80a65, https://insideclimatenews.org/news/0911 ... nge-denier and https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-skeptics from late 2016. It has only gotten worse since then, but that initial lot came up first in my search.
And note that these were presidential appointments. How are they any less 'dictatorial' than Obama's executive order??

:namaste:
Kim
Another one - very recent: https://thinkprogress.org/sam-clovis-no ... 186b08d0b/

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:50 am

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:56 am
chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:46 am
He did not make an offer.....he just said he wanted to renegotiate....
On the contrary: he never said he wanted to renegotiate the agreement, but rather expressed a willingness to do so, i.e. he made an offer.
Trump gave notice that the usa would quite the accord at its first legal opportunity and then said the if the accord was renegotiated the usa might stay. This is not making an offer unless you are talking about him making an offer to quit the accord. Clearly the accord members did not want to negotiate a smaller contribution from the usa.....they also probably wanted to make it clear to trump that he is not the prima donna of world affairs that he thinks he is.
AS a result of trumps actions, china is taking the lead....china is now a world leader and the usa is becoming a has been....which I think over all is a good thing for the international community. Perhaps it will put the brakes on the bullying which the usa has promulgated ever since....ever since....a very long time.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:39 am

If the planet is under threat and you personally think it is, as you say, then your defence of Trump is quite weird. (I'm sorry, but I can't be any more polite than that.) Can you give us your reasons?
To begin with I don't consider Trump bashing a healthy activity, neither for oneself nor for society. He was duly elected President of the United States and his views ought to be considered without the incessant mockery and distortion that borders on dishonesty. I suppose it comes down to tolerance and the importance one places on the need to compromise for the sake of social harmony. As for climate change, President Trump has conceded that it is real, though he is conflicted about the impact dealing with it might have on the American economy. In his eyes the Paris Agreement was a bad deal for America, especially when considering the negligible commitments from China and India which pose the real threat to the future of the planet. Even outside of the accord the U.S. still continues to push for cleaner energy and is developing the technology to achieve that goal. It's no surprise that many are ambivalent about whether the U.S. is in the accord or not.

I think Nikki Hailey explains the Trump Administration's position well in her interview with Jake Tapper back in June 2017.

Nikki Haley admits that Trump believes the 'climate is changing'

The White House's willingness to release the National Climate Assessment without any sort of resistance is noteworthy, and should be commended rather than invite attack and condemnation from those who have come to politicize the challenge.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:18 pm

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm

The White House's willingness to release the National Climate Assessment without any sort of resistance is noteworthy, and should be commended rather than invite attack and condemnation from those who have come to politicize the challenge.
The white house really had no alternative because.....:
wikipedia wrote: The National Climate Assessment (NCA) is conducted under the auspices of the Global Change Research Act of 1990. The GCRA requires a report to the President and the Congress every four years that integrates, evaluates, and interprets the findings of the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP);
...because it is manated by law.

I don't think that trump's upholding the law is commendable....on the contrary its just part of his job......he swore to uphold the laws when he took his oath of office didn't he?
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:17 pm

chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:18 pm

The white house really had no alternative because.....:
The Democrats weren't so sure about that. The White House could have disputed the findings within the report, perhaps even legally challenging the mandate itself.

Democrats renew pressure on Trump administration not to suppress federal climate report

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