Global Warming: Recent Data

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chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:54 am

robertk wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:19 am
I wonder why China is building so many coal stations over the next decade?
Chinese companies to build 700 coal plants in and outside China
1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries
Andrew Topf | Oct. 8, 2017, 4:35 PM

http://www.mining.com/chinese-companies ... ide-china/
There is a trend it seems:
Coal in 'freefall' as new power plants dive by two-thirds
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... hina-india
In latest move, China halts over 100 coal power projects:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china- ... KKBN151090
chownah

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robertk
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by robertk » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:03 am

yes , those articles are quite old. The link I supplied gives the latest figures I believe.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:58 am

robertk wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:19 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:08 am
pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:59 am
The question is when will alternative energy become cheaper than its more pollutive counterparts.
Solar and wind are already the cheapest source of energy in many places and situations already. If you google something like 'power generation cheapest' or something similar I think you may be surprised at what you see. It is the intermitten nature of these sources which keep them from completely taking over but the advances in battery technology and the decrease in cost through mass production will soon bring the cost of battery storage to a level where fossil fuel plants will be clearly seen as obsolete and will be close even before they have run their life cycles. Estimates of how long this will take are often in the five to ten year range.....but really it just depends on how fast the cost of batteries drops....and every year it keeps dropping.....china sees this very well and is doing alot to spur research an investment in alernative energy at all levels.
chownah

I wonder why China is building so many coal stations over the next decade?
Chinese companies to build 700 coal plants in and outside China
1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries
Andrew Topf | Oct. 8, 2017, 4:35 PM

http://www.mining.com/chinese-companies ... ide-china/
I suspect the answer to your question is complicated, Robert.
Firstly, I would like to see trend figures, not just current figures. How many coal plants were planned or under construction in these countries 5 years ago? ten years ago?
Secondly, I suspect that Chinese construction companies are undercutting the prices that anyone else can offer, either because the Chinese government is directly supporting 'new silk road' projects or because the slowdown in construction projects back home leaves them with underemployed skilled staff, or both.

:namaste:
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chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:58 am

robertk wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:03 am
yes , those articles are quite old. The link I supplied gives the latest figures I believe.
The latest figures given in your link do not disagree with what is given in the two I brought. Your link does not address whether coal power generation is expanding or not....it addresses the somewhat strawman arguements that coal is dead or that coal is a sunset industry. Your article also says:
Examples of China's domestic aversion to coal include:
•Two days ago Taiyuan, the capital of China’s northern province of Shanxi, which is known for its coal production, banned the sale, transport and use of most coal as it tries to cut air pollution
•In May Shanxi province decided to suspend or hold back the development of mines until 2020, which effectively will take out of the market about of 120 million tonnes of the fossil fuel.
•Also in May provincial authorities announced they will close 18 collieries and cut 17 million tonnes of coal capacity by the end of the year.
•In January Beijing announced it plans to shut down 800 million tonnes of outdated coal capacity by 2020.
You ask why chinese companies are building so much coal capacity....I think the answer is that it is profitable for them.
chownah

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:18 pm

chownah wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:08 am
pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:59 am
The question is when will alternative energy become cheaper than its more pollutive counterparts.
Solar and wind are already the cheapest source of energy in many places and situations already. ...
If the problem of storing the power can be solved, the next big challenge is capacity. How many wind turbines and solar panels would have to be built to replace the fossil fuel plants already in place? There are large swathes of the Western U.S. already covered (some would say littered) with wind turbines; to multiply these tenfold is probably what it would take to replace the conventional sources of electricity. I do think it is doable, however -- very unsightly but doable. The acceptance of hydroelectricity would lessen that amount, but it's almost as controversial as fossil fuels. But I suppose living on a cleaner planet with Native Americans and environmentalists complaining about dying salmon runs is a lot more palatable than the encroachment of climate change. With all its contaminated waste and the risk of catastrophic meltdowns, nuclear energy really out to be phased out as well.
chownah wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:08 am
china sees this very well and is doing alot to spur research an investment in alernative energy at all levels
Thank God for that.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:20 pm

pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:18 pm
Thank God for that.
From your link:
Pollution from China travels in large quantities across the Pacific Ocean to the United States, a new study has found, making environmental and health problems unexpected side effects of U.S. demand for cheap China-manufactured goods.
Kamma strikes again! ;)

:coffee:
Kim

chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:07 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:20 pm
pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:18 pm
Thank God for that.
From your link:
Pollution from China travels in large quantities across the Pacific Ocean to the United States, a new study has found, making environmental and health problems unexpected side effects of U.S. demand for cheap China-manufactured goods.
Kamma strikes again! ;)

:coffee:
Kim
Are you saying that if someone in the US buys a cheap shirt made in china then the fruition of thier kamma is lung disease?
chownah

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:14 am

French Nuclear Watchdog: Radioactive Cloud In Europe Came From Russia Or Kazakhstan

A cloud of radioactive pollution over Europe in late September likely originated from a nuclear facility in Russia or Kazakhstan, the French nuclear safety institute IRSN said.

https://www.rferl.org/a/radioactive-clo ... 46324.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russi ... SKBN1D92LJ


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pulga
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:51 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:07 am

Are you saying that if someone in the US buys a cheap shirt made in china then the fruition of thier kamma is lung disease?
Only if that someone happens to live in California.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:14 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:07 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:20 pm
pulga wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:18 pm
Thank God for that.
From your link:
Pollution from China travels in large quantities across the Pacific Ocean to the United States, a new study has found, making environmental and health problems unexpected side effects of U.S. demand for cheap China-manufactured goods.
Kamma strikes again! ;)

:coffee:
Kim
Are you saying that if someone in the US buys a cheap shirt made in china then the fruition of thier kamma is lung disease?
chownah
Not in so few words, but something like that.
When we (and Oz is as bad as the US in this) import 'cheap' manufactured/processed goods from China, Korea, Indonesia, Thailand, India, etc. we are exploiting the sweatshop labor and creating the pollution as surely as if we were doing it in our own country ... which we wouldn't do because of our 'more enlightened' labour laws and environmental controls, right?
:toilet:
Not only, that, we're throwing our own citizens out of work, and bringing down the average wealth of our country. At the same time, we are providing jobs and income to desperately poor people overseas, which on a global level tends to reduce economic injustice.
:juggling:
We're also, usually, facilitating the growth of greedy, exploitative, tax-evading multinationals at the expense of small-medium local businesses.
:guns:

Yes, it's complicated. Messy. Samsara is like that.

:namaste:
Kim

:focus:
(Pollution isn't climate change.)

chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:29 am

Alot of what you say may be true but it has nothing to do with kamma. Kamma is intention and action of individuals.....not of societies. I think you are misrepresenting what kamma is. Whether "shared kamma" or 'group kamma" exists has been discussed many times an in my memory there has never been even a shred of evience that the buddha taught shared or group kamma....and in fact I belive that he taught that each individual originates and obtains the fruit of their own intentions.
You seem to be using some pop culture definition of kamma and I think that to use that pop culture definition of kamma here on a buddhist website might give some people the idea that that is what the buddha taught......I'm just pointing out that it seems that it is not what the buddha taught.
:focus:
chownah

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:39 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:29 am
Alot of what you say may be true but it has nothing to do with kamma. Kamma is intention and action of individuals.....not of societies. I think you are misrepresenting what kamma is. Whether "shared kamma" or 'group kamma" exists has been discussed many times an in my memory there has never been even a shred of evience that the buddha taught shared or group kamma....and in fact I belive that he taught that each individual originates and obtains the fruit of their own intentions.
You seem to be using some pop culture definition of kamma and I think that to use that pop culture definition of kamma here on a buddhist website might give some people the idea that that is what the buddha taught......I'm just pointing out that it seems that it is not what the buddha taught.
:focus:
chownah
I think you're right, doctrinally speaking. I nearly said "poetic justice" in the first place, and I probably should have done so.

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Kim

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:40 am

After Paris ...
Powering Past Coal Alliance: 20 countries sign up to phase out coal power by 2030

Twenty countries including Britain, Canada and New Zealand have joined an international alliance to phase out coal from power generation before 2030.

The Powering Past Coal Alliance was unveiled at the COP23 climate talks in Bonn, Germany, which were working out the technical details of the 2015 Paris Agreement.

Included countries:
Angola
Austria
Belgium
Britain
Canada
Costa Rica
Denmark
El Salvador
Fiji
Finland
France
Italy
Luxembourg
The Marshall Islands
Mexico
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Niue
Portugal
Switzerland
Notable omissions (and excessive emissions!):
USA
Australia :embarassed:

More: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-17/2 ... 30/9161056

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robertk
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by robertk » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:25 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:40 am
After Paris

Twenty countries including Britain, Canada and New Zealand have joined an international alliance to phase out coal from power generation before 2030.

The Powering Past Coal Alliance was unveiled at the COP23 climate talks in Bonn, German

Included
Niue


:namaste:
Kim
I think tiny Niue woukd get most of its electricity from generators using diesel or petrol, not coal?

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:28 am

robertk wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:25 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:40 am
After Paris ...
Powering Past Coal Alliance: 20 countries sign up to phase out coal power by 2030

Twenty countries including Britain, Canada and New Zealand have joined an international alliance to phase out coal from power generation before 2030.

The Powering Past Coal Alliance was unveiled at the COP23 climate talks in Bonn, German

Included
Niue


:namaste:
Kim
I think tiny Niue woukd get most of its electricity from generators using diesel or petrol, not coal?
Yes, diesel generators - see https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewa ... er-em5193/. But they deserve our thanks for their in-principle support for what we all need to do.

:namaste:
Kim

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:09 pm

Russia Opens Commission Into "Nuclear Incident" Report
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia- ... rt-1779731

Russian nuclear facility denies it is source of high radioactivity levels
http://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/russian- ... 69583.html
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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 am

Norway Idea to Exit Oil Stocks Is ‘Shot Heard Around the World’
By Joe Ryan
and Anna Hirtenstein
November 17, 2017

$1 trillion sovereign wealth fund may divest from fossil fuels
Divestment movement suddenly has unparalleled momentum, heft

The Nordic nation’s $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund said Thursday that it’s considering unloading its shares of Exxon Mobil Corp., Royal Dutch Shell Plc and other oil giants to diversify its holdings and guard against drops in crude prices. European oil stocks fell. ...

The proposal rattled equity markets. While Norwegian officials say the plan isn’t based on any particular view about future oil prices, it’s apt to ratchet up pressure on fossil fuel companies already struggling with the growth of renewable energy.

Big Oil is under pressure, read more here

Norway’s Finance Ministry, which oversees the fund, said it will study the proposal and will take at least a year to decide what to do. The fund has already sold off most of its coal stocks. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -the-world

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:11 pm

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:09 pm
Russia Opens Commission Into "Nuclear Incident" Report
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia- ... rt-1779731

Russian nuclear facility denies it is source of high radioactivity levels
http://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/russian- ... 69583.html
Thanks, Lucas, although it's a bit OT here.
This story - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/t ... ge/9161442 - brings together, as it says, the nuclear and climate change threats. It also has wonderful drone footage of an incredibly beautiful part of the world.
A poison in our island

Rising seas caused by climate change are seeping inside a United States nuclear waste dump on a remote and low-lying Pacific atoll, flushing out radioactive substances left behind from some of the world’s largest atomic weapons tests.

On an atoll in the far-flung west of the Marshall Islands, halfway between Australia and Hawaii, sits “the dome”. ... Buried beneath this vast disc is 85,000 cubic metres of radioactive waste — a toxic legacy from the dawning of the thermonuclear age. ...
In the late 1970s, Runit Island, on the remote Enewetak Atoll, was the scene of the largest nuclear clean-up in United States history.

Highly contaminated debris left over from dozens of atomic weapons tests was dumped into a 100-metre wide bomb crater on the tip of the uninhabited island.

US Army engineers sealed it up with a half-metre thick concrete cap almost the size of an Australian football ground, then left the island.

Now with sea levels rising, water has begun to penetrate the dome. ...
:namaste:
Kim

More on the same story: the soldiers who did the clean-up were not protected and are now all riddled with cancers - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-28/t ... se/9168422

:namaste:

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:55 am

Monster heat wave reaches Greenland, bringing rain and melting its ice sheet

NASA's Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) mission warns the ice sheet is more at risk to global warming than we knew.

It’s been unusually warm in the United States in recent days, with records being set across the country. But it’s been scorching in Greenland, with temperatures as much as 54° above normal, which means above freezing in many places.

And this comes on the heels of new research from NASA’s aptly-named Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) mission, which finds that the enormous ice sheet is far more unstable than we realized. That’s bad news because the Greenland ice sheet contains enough land-locked ice to raise sea levels by over 20 feet. ...
https://thinkprogress.org/omg-heat-wave ... 1de9c6a92/

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:43 pm

Large iceberg breaks off from Grey glacier in southern Chile
Officials at Chile’s Torres del Paine National Park, home to the glacier, said such ruptures were rare and had not occurred since the early 1990s
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... hern-chile

THIS GIANT ICEBERG JUST BROKE OFF CHILE'S GREY GLACIER
http://www.newsweek.com/giant-iceberg-j ... ier-725764
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