The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

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chownah
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:39 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:45 am
Greetings chownah,
chownah wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:34 am
so, retrofuturist, perhaps you should please calm down.
Don't worry, I'm cool.

8-)

From my perspective, we're all against murder, all against rape, all against violence, all against dislocation and the wanton destruction of property. (Someone correct me here, if I'm wrong...)

I find it odd then, that there's so much...

"Team A is violating Team B!"
"No, Team B is violating Team A!"
"No, no, they're violating one another!"
"Oh, but what about Team C?!"

The "who" part is the most boring part, yet it's the aspect most people seem hung up on... and for what purpose? We know what's kusala, we know what's akusala... so why all the hyped-up drama, accusations and aspersions?

:shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
If there is an identifiable "who" that is actually perpretrating violence on some other "who" then I find the attitude you express in this post as being enabling and just what the perpretrator of violence would want. If there is a gov't (I'm being theoretical) which wants to abuse a minority (this is theoretic but everyone knows that this happens all throughout history....of course we only have evidence from news reports and blah blah so we can always say we don't really know for sure....even those abuses that have had massive historic consequences we can say we can not be sure that they even happened at all based on present phenomenology) then don't you think it is good if people don't get bored with who is doing it but actually find out who is doing it and stop that who from doing it? Of course we can't be sure of anything....so....how many times have we been wrong? (at the societal level)....how many times have the wrong armies been accused of rape and pillaging?....we can't know for sure can we....oh well, if I hear someone screaming for help I don't realliy know if they need help or not...maybe they have been abusing someone and now someone else has stopped them and they are screaming for help to foil the person who is stopping them from abusing......we can't know for sure......
So....people might say...."oh! no! that is not what I am suggesting at all....we should do something" and yet here we are in a discussion about people being abused and the response of some posting seems to be "well, I really can't know for sure" with the implication or consequence (perhaps unintended) that "since I can't know for sure there is really nothing for me to do".
Enabling/encouraging paralysis and apathy.
If people actualy care and want to know what to do then go do whatever it takes to find out so that you can have some degree of certainty about what to do. Go find those new articles and videos from five years ago (or more if necessary) and study them. This is difficult but you only should do this because you weren't paying attention five years ago (or more) about what is happening in the world....so....go get those news article and videos.....analyse the clothing and speech of the various participants and determing who is being abused and who is the abuser....its not hard to tell when a monk is at the head of a mob of people with implements of destruction getting ready to evict and destroy that it is probably not muslims in that mob that is set to evict and destroy....it is not difficult to tell that when a prominent buddhist monk makes public statements condoning the eviction and destruction (even to the point of bodily harm) that it is not muslims doing the eviction an destruction. BUT YOU CAN'T BE SURE CAN YOU......IT IS ONLY WHAT IS READILY AVAILABLE IN THE NEWS BLAH BLAH....
The myanmar gov't hasn't stopped the violence whoever is doing it and there are more people on all sides that seem to be getting into the act.....and you can believe me that making statements like "I can't really be sure who it is or even if it is happening at all because it is just news blah blah and you can't really know anything anyway" is going to help to force that gov't to do something. Are you aware that the gov't has historically been known to abuse minorities and to violently quash minorities's attempts to gain their rights even when the minorities try to do it from within the structure of existing laws...and I am not talking about muslims...if you are not burmese then buckle under buddy because you are under the burmese thumb. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE MYANMAR GOV'T'S HISTORY OF ABUSING MINORITIES? BUT YOU CAN'T BE SURE CAN YOU......IT IS ONLY WHAT IS READILY AVAILABLE IN THE NEWS BLAH BLAH....NOTHING CAN BE KNOWN FOR SURE....
:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:
Don't worry, I'm cool.
chownah

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:15 pm

I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:17 pm

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

binocular
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by binocular » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:56 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:45 am
The "who" part is the most boring part, yet it's the aspect most people seem hung up on... and for what purpose? We know what's kusala, we know what's akusala... so why all the hyped-up drama, accusations and aspersions?
Because it hit so close to home. It's Buddhists, of all people, that are being accused of violence against innocent people. How can proper, native Asian Buddhists that we Westerners should to look up to, do such things? And, more subversively, fierce accusations of others as a projective way for some Buddhists to deny their own problematic tendencies. Someone should do a study on whether there is a correlation between A: identifying oneself as a Buddhist and fiercely criticizing the Buddhists in Burma, and B: identifying oneself as a Buddhist and supporting the breaking of precepts in the name of compassion or skillfulness.

binocular
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by binocular » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:01 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:39 pm
The myanmar gov't hasn't stopped the violence whoever is doing it and there are more people on all sides that seem to be getting into the act.....and you can believe me that making statements like "I can't really be sure who it is or even if it is happening at all because it is just news blah blah and you can't really know anything anyway" is going to help to force that gov't to do something. Are you aware that the gov't has historically been known to abuse minorities and to violently quash minorities's attempts to gain their rights even when the minorities try to do it from within the structure of existing laws...and I am not talking about muslims...if you are not burmese then buckle under buddy because you are under the burmese thumb.
That's a problem for the type of Buddhist (whether of Asian or Western provenance) who is an Asian supremacist; ie. the type of Buddhist who believes that only Asians have the right kind of Buddhism and that if anyone wants to get to nirvana, one has to follow the Asian Buddhist way.

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

chownah
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by chownah » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:46 pm

From the wikipedia article "2013 Myanmar anti-Muslim riots":
March riots in Meiktila[edit]

Tensions between Buddhist and Muslim ethnic groups flared into violent clashes in Meiktila, Mandalay Division on 20 March and continued until the 22nd, killing at least 40 and wounding 61 people. The violence started on 20 March after a Muslim gold shop owner, his wife, and two Muslim employees assaulted a Buddhist customer and her husband in an argument over a golden hairpin. A large mob formed and began to destroy the shop. The heavily outnumbered police reportedly told the mob to disperse after they had destroyed the shop.[3] In the evening, a local Buddhist monk not involved in the incident was dragged from his bicycle, doused in petrol, and burnt alive by six Muslim youths at a nearby mosque.[4] The killing of the monk caused the relatively contained situation to explode, greatly increasing intensity and violence.[3]

The deadliest incident occurred when a Buddhist mob attacked and torched the Mingalar Zayone Islamic Boarding School. While outnumbered security forces stood by, rioters armed with machetes, metal pipes, chains, and stones killed 32 teenage students and four teachers.[5]

On 25 March, communal rioting targeting Muslim houses and mosques spread to the towns of Othekone, Tatkone and Yamenthin. At least 9,000 residents were documented to have been displaced by the violence.[6] In April, the BBC obtained a leaked police video showing outnumbered police officers standing by while rioters torched houses and businesses in Meiktila. The video also shows the burning and killing of at least two Muslim students at the hands of rioters, which included Buddhist monks. The video was captured to prosecute the perpetrators later in court. On the third day, the situation stabilised when the government declared a state of emergency and deployed military troops.[3]

On 21 May, seven Muslims, including the gold shop owner and those who perpetrated the murder of the monk, were convicted for inciting the unrest and jailed from 2 up to 28 years. In July, the Burmese courts sentenced 25 Buddhists to up to 15 years in prison for murder and other crimes during the riot.[1]
chownah

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BlackBird
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by BlackBird » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:38 pm

You know, when this campaign of hatred, rape, pilagging and downright murder was in its infancy I remember trying to kick up a stink about one of its chiefs, a so called monk. I remember getting what was a lukewarm response here at best.

I came here today hoping to see that real Buddhists would finally be standing up against those who are commiting atrocious acts in the name of our religion that are completely antithetical to what we as Buddhists supossedly stand for.

Instead I see more than a couple of people I used to respect posting conspiracy theories about how the ethnic cleansing is fake news.

Shame on you.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/opin ... adesh.html
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:12 pm

Yes, the "Fake News" meme seems to be in the ascendancy. Personally, I've given up reading such posts, and arguing with them is, by definition, pointless, since that's dismissed as just more "Fake news"... :shrug:

:heart:
Mike

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:19 pm

Image


Image

Image

Image
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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BlackBird
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by BlackBird » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:16 am

Look there is no doubt that there has been a lot of violence from Rohingya islamists dating back a long way. The issue I am taking is with the Buddhist response to this, so called Buddhists engaging in terrible and despicable acts, raping women and children and burning babies alive. Man, no matter what someone has done to you, nothing calls for that level of depravity.

What did Gandhi say about an eye for an eye? Peace keeping and subjugation/reeducation/imprisonment of Islamic terrorists is one thing, murdering innocent people because they belong to the same ethnic and religious group as terrorists is a different kettle of fish altogether. Muslim Rohingyas are not some Orcish horde that needs to be pushed out of Gondor.

I say all this as someone who is very critical of Islam as a religion, it is often the antithesis of tolerance, but two wrongs do not make a right. You cannot rape and kill or incite that behaviour and call yourself a Buddhist.

:heart:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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retrofuturist
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:39 am

Greetings Blackbird,

To be clear, I don't think anyone here is condoning such disgraceful behaviours.

My understanding of this topic is that Kusala is simply questioning the Western mainstream narrative, suggesting that the situation on the ground may not be exactly as we've been led to believe. Given the declining integrity of the mainstream media in recent years, this isn't an unreasonable field of inquiry. As such, I think your earlier response to such an investigation was a tad unfair.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Mr Man » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:21 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:39 am
My understanding of this topic is that Kusala is simply questioning the Western mainstream narrative, suggesting that the situation on the ground may not be exactly as we've been led to believe.
Looks like Kusala is offering an alternative narrative rather than just questioning. And presenting that narrative as "Truth".

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:58 pm

Image

Image
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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DNS
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by DNS » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:10 am

Rohingya Truth
Mass grave found in Rakhine state:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/20/asia/myan ... index.html

Dhammavaro
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Dhammavaro » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:45 am

Thank you @ Kusala !

I have been there.
But here in the west, we get only one part of the truth.
^^The Greatest Gift to Buddha, our Parents, our teacher..is to open the eye of dhamma^^

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:57 pm

Image

Image

Image
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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

chownah
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by chownah » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:03 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:46 pm
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Myan ... slim_riots the wikipedia article "2013 Myanmar anti-Muslim riots":
April riots in Okkan[edit]

On 30 April 400 Buddhists armed with bricks and sticks overran mosques and torched more than 100 homes and shops in Okkan, killing two people and injuring at least ten more. Another 77 homes were destroyed in the nearby villages of Yadanakon, Panipin, Chaukthe and Thekon. The riot reportedly began when a Muslim girl on a bicycle accidentally bumped into a Buddhist monk, knocking over his alms bowl.[7]
chownah

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:29 am

well, muslims never did anything to me, but if they did i would try to focus on buddha's teaching of loving-kindness
you'll end up feeling a lot more pain in the long run if you retaliate
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:46 am

Image

Image

Image

Image
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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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