Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

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Caodemarte
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by Caodemarte » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:52 am

rajitha7 wrote:Please address things I raised. There is no one else here.

I will re-iterate, the Tamil policy formulated in 1949 is here. I have attached the speech in verbatim.

[the northern parts of the Island must for long have been predominantly Tamil and it must have been difficult for the Singhalese kingdoms in the south to hold sway over the northern areas with its preponderance of Tamil population. Ultimately a natural solution was reached and about the 9th or 10th century the Tamil areas of the north divided themselves and became a separate kingdom, whilst the south of Ceylon remained Singhalese though breaking up at times into two or three kingdoms.

http://dh-web.org/hrsits/SJV1949.html
The reason I react at all is because the things that you are saying have been and are used by people who claim to be Buddhists to support murder, rape, and genocide. What's on the Internet gets picked up and takes in the unwary as well. I confess do have an emotional attachment to both the people of SE Asia and Buddhism. So this sort of thing really tears my heart out.

To briefly respond to your clearer points:

Rohingya are not recent immigrants to Myanmar from Bangladesh.

As your most recent historical quote demonstrates Tamils were not brought over by the British as "slaves" per your previous statement (it seems you have confused the tea plantation Tamil workers whose ancestors were immigrants under colonial rule and took no part in the recent Civil War, and the larger Tamil population whose roots are far deeper than colonial rule).

Both Rohingya and Tamils have as deep a claim to be "indigenous" as any other peoples in Myanmar and Sri Lanka.

A speech by one minority politician does not speak for every member of that group. There is no "Tamil policy." There is no "declaration of war" if "peaceful means" are called for.

Having actually looked at your linked source, I can flatly say that it is bizarre distortion of regional history.

I have previously commented on your other points. None of what I said before or now is controversial or challenged by objective observers. This is well established and well known history so again I ask you to refer to the respected histories of the region.

Having hopefully warned any innocent readers I will now leave the discussion. Fare well. :namaste:

rajitha7
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by rajitha7 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:36 am

Caodemarte wrote: Rohingya are not recent immigrants to Myanmar from Bangladesh.
As your most recent historical quote demonstrates Tamils were not brought over by the British as "slaves" per your previous statement
Well, then present any evidence that suggests this idea. Present anything you have. I will let you know its validity is yay or nay.
Caodemarte wrote: The reason I react at all is because the things that you are saying have been and are used by people who claim to be Buddhists to support murder, rape, and genocide. What's on the Internet gets picked up and takes in the unwary as well. I confess do have an emotional attachment to both the people of SE Asia and Buddhism. So this sort of thing really tears my heart out.
I can equally say about that to the other side though. The Tamils have engaged over 60 years trying to create a separate state that involved all those things you mention there.

I have presented why there is no historical or legal basis for any of it. So bring anything that suggests otherwise.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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L.N.
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Sri Lanka too?

Post by L.N. » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:06 pm

Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

chownah
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by chownah » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:29 am

Edit: THIS IS THE WRONG LINK=> https://suttacentral.net/en/sn4.15
THIS IS THE CORRECT LINK=>http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
an excerpt:
"When embraced,
the rod of violence
breeds danger & fear:
Look at people quarreling.
I will tell of how
I experienced
dismay.
Seeing people floundering
like fish in small puddles,
competing with one another —
as I saw this,
fear came into me.
The world was entirely
without substance.
All the directions
were knocked out of line.
Wanting a haven for myself,
I saw nothing that wasn't laid claim to.
Seeing nothing in the end
but competition,
I felt discontent.
And then I saw
an arrow here,
so very hard to see,
embedded in the heart.
Overcome by this arrow
you run in all directions.
But simply on pulling it out
you don't run,
you don't sink.
The rest of this sutta is well worth reading too but I didn't want to be too preachy.
chownah
Last edited by chownah on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:56 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:29 am
From: https://suttacentral.net/en/sn4.15
an excerpt:

The rest of this sutta is well worth reading too but I didn't want to be too preachy.
chownah
Is the link correct?

Sutta Nipāta
Attadaṇḍa Sutta
4.15. “Assuming Forcefulness” and so on

https://suttacentral.net/en/snp4.15

Thank you for reminding me of this sutta.

has a sutta that talks about the importance of practice, because wars and crises can happen and we may not have another moment of peace to practice.

I just do not remember what sutta is.

:anjali:
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chownah
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by chownah » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:40 am

Thanks for pointing out my error. The correct link is http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
I'll go edit my previous post with the correction.
Thanks again,
chownah

perkele
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by perkele » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:35 am

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:56 am
has a sutta that talks about the importance of practice, because wars and crises can happen and we may not have another moment of peace to practice.

I just do not remember what sutta is.
Maybe this one.

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polarbear101
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by polarbear101 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:26 am

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:56 am
has a sutta that talks about the importance of practice, because wars and crises can happen and we may not have another moment of peace to practice.

I just do not remember what sutta is.

:anjali:
I think it is this one on future dangers:
“Furthermore, the monk reminds himself of this: At present people are in harmony, on friendly terms, without quarreling, like milk mixed with water, viewing one another with eyes of affection. The time will come, though, when there is danger and an invasion of savage tribes. Taking power, they will surround the countryside. When there is danger, people will congregate where it is safe. There they will live packed and crowded together. When one is living packed and crowded together, it is not easy to pay attention to the Buddha’s teachings. It is not easy to reside in isolated forest or wilderness dwellings. Before this unwelcome, disagreeable, displeasing thing happens, let me first make an effort for the attaining of the as-yet-unattained, the reaching of the as-yet-unreached, the realization of the as-yet-unrealized, so that—endowed with that Dhamma—I will live in peace even when there is danger.

“This is the fourth future danger that is just enough, when considered, for a monk—heedful, ardent, and resolute—to live for the attaining of the as-yet-unattained, the reaching of the as-yet-unreached, the realization of the as-yet-unrealized.

https://suttacentral.net/en/an5.78

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

DooDoot
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by DooDoot » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:54 am

Caodemarte wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:00 am
Your two statements are often made in the context of racist propaganda and, as such, often considered offensive.
Caodemarte wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:28 am
If you do, you will see why these claims are patently absurd and fairly offensive.
I have never read anywhere in Buddhism that finding things to be "offensive" is a virtue. In other words, it does not win any arguments, at least in Buddhism. Being "offended" is not listening to the positions of another.

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:10 pm

polarbear101 wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:26 am

I think it is this one on future dangers:
“Furthermore, the monk reminds himself of this: At present people are in harmony, on friendly terms, without quarreling, like milk mixed with water, viewing one another with eyes of affection. The time will come, though, when there is danger and an invasion of savage tribes. Taking power, they will surround the countryside. When there is danger, people will congregate where it is safe. There they will live packed and crowded together. When one is living packed and crowded together, it is not easy to pay attention to the Buddha’s teachings. It is not easy to reside in isolated forest or wilderness dwellings. Before this unwelcome, disagreeable, displeasing thing happens, let me first make an effort for the attaining of the as-yet-unattained, the reaching of the as-yet-unreached, the realization of the as-yet-unrealized, so that—endowed with that Dhamma—I will live in peace even when there is danger.

“This is the fourth future danger that is just enough, when considered, for a monk—heedful, ardent, and resolute—to live for the attaining of the as-yet-unattained, the reaching of the as-yet-unreached, the realization of the as-yet-unrealized.

https://suttacentral.net/en/an5.78

:anjali:
It's this one.

Thank you
perkele wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:35 am
Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:56 am
has a sutta that talks about the importance of practice, because wars and crises can happen and we may not have another moment of peace to practice.

I just do not remember what sutta is.
Maybe this one.
this is good too

:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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Kusala
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by Kusala » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:38 am

Caodemarte wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:00 am
rajitha7 wrote:
Caodemarte wrote:This is factually incorrect on all counts..
Since we are both followers of the Dhamma both know the consequences of being dishonest.

Kindly be specific so that I can expand on the material. Which item starting the one that most concerns you? I will be honest with you,

Your two statements are often made in the context of racist propaganda and, as such, often considered offensive. They have no historical basis. Rohingya, for example, are not recent immigrants from Bangladesh, but have been in the area fo a long, long time. There is no mass Rohingya popular support for forming an Islamic mini-state in Myanmar, partially because it would be suicidal in the extreme. However, you could argue that the current anti-Muslim pogroms are creating a Muslim insurgency (and certainly the attention of foreign militants) and the need for self defense will lead to such a movement.

The linked source falsely claims that the Tamil population of Sri Lanka was brought in "as slaves" by the British. The is a huge error in a fundamental factor in Sri Lankan history. The best guess I can make here is a confusion of the majority Tamil population (whose ancestors may or may not have preceded the Sinhala migration or been concurrent) with the minority Tamil population who came in to work the tea plantations. And so on and so on in the cited sources. Please consult any standard histories by reputable scholrs for a more factual account. For Sri Lanka, the readily available "A history of Sri Lanka" by K. M. De Silva is good place to start.


"Rohingya militants have actually been in the vanguard of the global rise of Islamic radicalism since the early 1940s, when they joined the campaign to press the British to establish Pakistan by partitioning India. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... ition.html
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Kusala
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by Kusala » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:32 am

Kusala wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:38 am
Caodemarte wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:00 am
rajitha7 wrote:
Since we are both followers of the Dhamma both know the consequences of being dishonest.

Kindly be specific so that I can expand on the material. Which item starting the one that most concerns you? I will be honest with you,

Your two statements are often made in the context of racist propaganda and, as such, often considered offensive. They have no historical basis. Rohingya, for example, are not recent immigrants from Bangladesh, but have been in the area fo a long, long time. There is no mass Rohingya popular support for forming an Islamic mini-state in Myanmar, partially because it would be suicidal in the extreme. However, you could argue that the current anti-Muslim pogroms are creating a Muslim insurgency (and certainly the attention of foreign militants) and the need for self defense will lead to such a movement.

The linked source falsely claims that the Tamil population of Sri Lanka was brought in "as slaves" by the British. The is a huge error in a fundamental factor in Sri Lankan history. The best guess I can make here is a confusion of the majority Tamil population (whose ancestors may or may not have preceded the Sinhala migration or been concurrent) with the minority Tamil population who came in to work the tea plantations. And so on and so on in the cited sources. Please consult any standard histories by reputable scholrs for a more factual account. For Sri Lanka, the readily available "A history of Sri Lanka" by K. M. De Silva is good place to start.


"Rohingya militants have actually been in the vanguard of the global rise of Islamic radicalism since the early 1940s, when they joined the campaign to press the British to establish Pakistan by partitioning India. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... ition.html
Here's a timeline...

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Mr Man
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by Mr Man » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:54 pm

Kusala wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:32 am

Here's a timeline...
Hi Kusala
Who wrote the timeline?

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L.N.
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Re: Common thread in violence in Sri Lanka and Mynamar

Post by L.N. » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:34 am

Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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