POTUS 2017

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
perkele
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by perkele » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:08 am

Santi253 wrote:Now that the Trump administration wants to cut legal immigration in half, to include only high-skilled English-speakers, that's even more evidence of his racism or racist pandering, one of many examples.
Seriously? What is racist about requiring certain skills from regular immigrants in order to ensure that they can contribute productively to the society into which they want to immigrate?

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lyndon taylor
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by lyndon taylor » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:22 am

perkele wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Now that the Trump administration wants to cut legal immigration in half, to include only high-skilled English-speakers, that's even more evidence of his racism or racist pandering, one of many examples.
Seriously? What is racist about requiring certain skills from regular immigrants in order to ensure that they can contribute productively to the society into which they want to immigrate?
If you have to ask you probably wouldn't know. Perhaps you think only people that contribute at the higher levels of society are of value. Something to meditate on.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

perkele
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by perkele » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:36 am

lyndon taylor wrote:If you have to ask you probably wouldn't know.
Exactly, and well spotted, that is why I asked. You appear to know the answer but seem to be reluctant to give it to me, which I find a bit disappointing, if not to say, stingy.
lyndon taylor wrote:Perhaps you think only people that contribute at the higher levels of society are of value.
I don't know how you come to such a conclusion, or what these higher levels are supposed to be, or of what kind of value you are speaking about here. Of course there are a multitude of possibilities for valuing (assigning a value to) things or people or whatever in various different contexts. And certainly there is inherent value in life itself for the one who lives it (except maybe for an arahat like the Buddha, who said that he disapproves of even the tiniest bit of existence, or something like that).
But my question was simply: What has this to do with racism? That just seems to be logically inconclusive to me at best. :shrug: But I don't assume now that you can or will explain that to me. Anyhow, then, that's fine by me as well.
lyndon taylor wrote:Something to meditate on.
What do you mean? For you, or for me? Or maybe for (((them)))?

For me, at least, it is time now to sleep. Shadilay, brother. :anjali:

Santi253
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Santi253 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:47 am

perkele wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Now that the Trump administration wants to cut legal immigration in half, to include only high-skilled English-speakers, that's even more evidence of his racism or racist pandering, one of many examples.
Seriously? What is racist about requiring certain skills from regular immigrants in order to ensure that they can contribute productively to the society into which they want to immigrate?
It's the cutting legal immigration by 50% that I disagree with, not changing the standards for who can get in. You don't need to cut the amount of legal immigration in half, in order to get more quality immigrants into the country.

If we go to a Canadian-style or Australian-style immigration system, while keeping the same amount of legal immigration, so be it.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:29 am

One more myth we have been copiously served, Trump being allegedly non interventionist.

Trump Alarms Venezuela With Talk of a ‘Military Option’
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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cjmacie
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by cjmacie » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:38 am

perkele wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Now that the Trump administration wants to cut legal immigration in half, to include only high-skilled English-speakers, that's even more evidence of his racism or racist pandering, one of many examples.
Seriously? What is racist about requiring certain skills from regular immigrants in order to ensure that they can contribute productively to the society into which they want to immigrate?
Anyone here compared similar requirements in other countries?

I suspect having skills to contribute is not uncommon.

Also, a day or two ago, a headline in internet news had to do with the case where a teacher of Irish background, already working for years in Australia, was denied visa renewal because of failing an oral English test. (Note, there may be some issue as it was judged by new voice recognition software.) The point, however is that getting into Australia requires proficiency in the language. But when the USA proposes similar, it's big bad fascist or something...
:stirthepot:

On the other hand, there's the old story of some Southern (USA) Senator, in the midst of a debate whether English must be the only official language, spouting rhetorically: "If English is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!"

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lyndon taylor
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by lyndon taylor » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:59 am

Australia and America both have really bad refugee immigration programmes, the problem with the merit based approach is it pretty much eliminates most all refugees from being eligible for immigration, that's where the racism comes into it. America actually has just as much demand for low paying jobs as it has for higher paying tech jobs.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Santi253
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Santi253 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:17 pm

cjmacie wrote: Anyone here compared similar requirements in other countries?
Santi253 wrote: It's the cutting legal immigration by 50% that I disagree with, not changing the standards for who can get in. You don't need to cut the amount of legal immigration in half, in order to get more quality immigrants into the country.

If we go to a Canadian-style or Australian-style immigration system, while keeping the same amount of legal immigration, so be it.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:37 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:Australia and America both have really bad refugee immigration programmes, the problem with the merit based approach is it pretty much eliminates most all refugees from being eligible for immigration, that's where the racism comes into it.
Seems to be more of an issue of discrimination based on class rather than race. If an Indian doctor has an easier path to citizenship than that of a Syrian refugee that is not an issue of racism, it is an matter of an elitist policy of the US that favors higher social status. The systems prefers a sophisticated, educated, and prospectively more law-abiding citizen over the less predictable situation of a refugee. Indeed this is blatant discrimination, but it is surely not based on race.

If we reject the possibility of such subtle distinctions then we how do we know we are making the proper adjustments to policy?

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lyndon taylor
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by lyndon taylor » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:03 pm

SDC wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Australia and America both have really bad refugee immigration programmes, the problem with the merit based approach is it pretty much eliminates most all refugees from being eligible for immigration, that's where the racism comes into it.
Seems to be more of an issue of discrimination based on class rather than race. If an Indian doctor has an easier path to citizenship than that of a Syrian refugee that is not an issue of racism, it is an matter of an elitist policy of the US that favors higher social status. The systems prefers a sophisticated, educated, and prospectively more law-abiding citizen over the less predictable situation of a refugee. Indeed this is blatant discrimination, but it is surely not based on race.

If we reject the possibility of such subtle distinctions then we how do we know we are making the proper adjustments to policy?
Wherever do you get the idea that people of a higher social status are potentially more law abiding???
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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SDC
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by SDC » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:18 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Wherever do you get the idea that people of a higher social status are potentially more law abiding???
Lyndon, all I am saying is THE US sees it as a more beneficial decision, not that it is a fact. My goodness, nice work trying to deflect away from the main point onto a tangent.

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Mr Man » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:05 pm

#MAGA
USA - Copy.jpg
USA - Copy.jpg (196.1 KiB) Viewed 327 times

binocular
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Re: Trump turns Boy Scouts event into political rally

Post by binocular » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Buddha Vacana wrote:This is not just an "us or them" situation. We need to all work together to make the world a more livable place for everyone.
Why?
Can you actually provide a justification for that?
True compassion doesn't stop at the borders of your country nor at those who find themselves technically on the safe side of its laws, even if its culture screams the opposite in your ears on a daily basis.
Is the Dhamma an equal opportunity endeavor? Buddhism certainly isn't.

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Mr Man
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Mr Man » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:55 pm

“This represents a turning point for the people of this country. We're determined to take our country back and fulfill Trump's promises. That’s what we believe in, that’s why we voted for him: Because he said he’s going to take our country back. And that’s what we gotta do.”

David Duke in Charlottesville

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Santi253
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Santi253 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:26 am

Once again, Trump refuses to condemn white nationalism for what it is:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 989a38c505

This is the same man who has repeatedly re-posted for the pages of white nationalists on Twitter.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Buddha Vacana
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:13 am

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/stat ... 8028652548
SDC wrote: Seems to be more of an issue of discrimination based on class rather than race.
Fair point. It is every bit as bad though and so I don't think it puts into question the concern behind Lyndon's comment in a meaningful way.
binocular wrote:
Buddha Vacana wrote:This is not just an "us or them" situation. We need to all work together to make the world a more livable place for everyone.
Why?
Can you actually provide a justification for that?
Well, please enlighten me, because this is a Buddhist forum and you are asking me to *provide a justification* why we should work together to make the world a better place.

Please explain in what way this is not supposed to be a commonplace on this forum.
binocular wrote:
True compassion doesn't stop at the borders of your country nor at those who find themselves technically on the safe side of its laws, even if its culture screams the opposite in your ears on a daily basis.
Is the Dhamma an equal opportunity endeavor? Buddhism certainly isn't.
Does my statement above say anything about equal opportunity? No it does not. Do you think that statement is inaccurate? I can't possibly imagine how you could refute it in a way that is consistant with the Buddha's teaching. You can try, though, if you feel so inclined, but at least avoid trying to put your words in my mouth. Thank you.
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Santi253
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Santi253 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:54 pm

In blaming a domestic terrorist attack on "many sides," rather than condemning white nationalism for what it is, Trump is blaming the victims. This is the same Trump who falsely attacked Obama for not condemning Islamic terrorism by name.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

pulga
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by pulga » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:58 pm

While the President should have condemned the white nationalists with greater emphasis, both sides behaved violently. That some in the media are turning a blind-eye to the role that Antifa played in the melee is unfortunate and counterproductive.

Santi253
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by Santi253 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:02 pm

pulga wrote: both sides behaved violently
False equivalence. One side supports fascism and racism and actually killed people. The other side came to protest against it. This is the same Trump who falsely attacked Obama for not condemning Islamic terrorism by name.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

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cjmacie
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Re: POTUS 2017

Post by cjmacie » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:30 pm

Santi253 wrote:
pulga wrote: both sides behaved violently
False equivalence. One side supports fascism and racism and actually killed people. The other side came to protest against it...
I didn't realize the 1st precept applied only to those one agrees with politically. :shrug:

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