Victims of Capitalism.

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
User avatar
Nibbana
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:37 pm

Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Nibbana » Fri May 19, 2017 9:54 am

Just to balance the victims of communism.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-kil ... ii/5492051

It is hypocrisy at it's best when one focuses on the one but not the other.
Always try to maintain a balanced view.

:anjali:
Last edited by Nibbana on Fri May 19, 2017 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Then you understand the brilliance of the Buddha's teaching of anatta, goes right to the heart of everything. They say the Dhamma is the source, not going to it's consequences not papancha, but going right into the very middle, the very essence, the very heart, the atta what you take to be you. From the body into the mind thinking, from the mind into the doer, from the doer into the knower. You can see you're not the knower, you can see you're not the doer..."

-Ajahn Brahm

SarathW
Posts: 8283
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Victims of US imperialism.

Post by SarathW » Fri May 19, 2017 10:03 am

Perhaps you have to say victims of capitalism.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Nibbana
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Victims of US imperialism.

Post by Nibbana » Fri May 19, 2017 10:05 am

SarathW wrote:Perhaps you have to say victims of capitalism.
:)
"Then you understand the brilliance of the Buddha's teaching of anatta, goes right to the heart of everything. They say the Dhamma is the source, not going to it's consequences not papancha, but going right into the very middle, the very essence, the very heart, the atta what you take to be you. From the body into the mind thinking, from the mind into the doer, from the doer into the knower. You can see you're not the knower, you can see you're not the doer..."

-Ajahn Brahm

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 10939
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Victims of US imperialism.

Post by DNS » Fri May 19, 2017 4:52 pm

Nibbana wrote:
SarathW wrote:Perhaps you have to say victims of capitalism.
:)
The original title of "Victims of U.S. imperialism" is better. There are plenty of capitalist nations that are not imperialist. In fact, most nations are capitalist and not imperialist. The Libertarian Party in the U.S. is the "most" capitalist (bottom right quadrant on the political compass) and they oppose the imperialism, wars, massive defense spending, American military bases around the world, etc.

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 3770
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by SDC » Fri May 19, 2017 5:31 pm

Nibbana wrote:It is hypocrisy at it's best when one focuses on the one but not the other.
Always try to maintain a balanced view.
A great suggestion, but it is by no means a requirement when posting on this forum.

Disciple
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:13 pm

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Disciple » Fri May 19, 2017 5:32 pm

US imperialism is a cancer to this planet.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, Southern California, USA
Contact:

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri May 19, 2017 5:39 pm

Capitalism is the worship of rich, greedy people. It is a degenerate philosophy.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
BasementBuddhist
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:03 pm

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Fri May 19, 2017 5:45 pm

Disciple wrote:US imperialism is a cancer to this planet.

U.S. imperialism is U.S. imperialism. Imperialism causes suffering for some, and pleasure for others, like all things on this planet. :anjali:

You can make a choice to oppose or support Imperialism and its effects, but that does not make it bad or good. It merely makes you opposed or supportive to It. Fire might be scary to those burned. The very same people would be happy to see it when wet and cold. Where in imperialism is the evil? The path to enlightenment lies beyond what is bad and what is good. Only by watching, accepting, and reacting with Metta can we achieve the goal of awakening.

User avatar
Nibbana
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Nibbana » Fri May 19, 2017 6:27 pm

This is very interesting to contemplate:

Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was a United States Marine Corps major general, the highest rank authorized at that time, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I. Butler is well known for having later become an outspoken critic of U.S. wars and their consequences, as well as exposing the Business Plot, an alleged plan to overthrow the U.S. government.

― Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier
Smedley D. Butler wrote:“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
The audio version of the book is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZD4nc08uc
"Then you understand the brilliance of the Buddha's teaching of anatta, goes right to the heart of everything. They say the Dhamma is the source, not going to it's consequences not papancha, but going right into the very middle, the very essence, the very heart, the atta what you take to be you. From the body into the mind thinking, from the mind into the doer, from the doer into the knower. You can see you're not the knower, you can see you're not the doer..."

-Ajahn Brahm

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, Southern California, USA
Contact:

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri May 19, 2017 7:47 pm

BasementBuddhist wrote:
Disciple wrote:US imperialism is a cancer to this planet.

U.S. imperialism is U.S. imperialism. Imperialism causes suffering for some, and pleasure for others, like all things on this planet. :anjali:

You can make a choice to oppose or support Imperialism and its effects, but that does not make it bad or good. It merely makes you opposed or supportive to It. Fire might be scary to those burned. The very same people would be happy to see it when wet and cold. Where in imperialism is the evil? The path to enlightenment lies beyond what is bad and what is good. Only by watching, accepting, and reacting with Metta can we achieve the goal of awakening.
You seem to be seriously mixing up your politics with religion, there is good and bad in politics, in religion too.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:37 am

lyndon taylor wrote:Capitalism is the worship of rich, greedy people. It is a degenerate philosophy.
Capitalism is the freedom to exchange goods, and the enforcement of the fairness of those transactions.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

chownah
Posts: 6601
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by chownah » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:22 pm

Here is a classic about some abuses which occured in american capitalism:
The Jungle: Upton Sinclair
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/140
chownah

Circle5
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Circle5 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:48 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Capitalism is the worship of rich, greedy people. It is a degenerate philosophy.
Capitalism is the freedom to exchange goods, and the enforcement of the fairness of those transactions.
:goodpost:

And I would add: Capitalism is not an ideology, it's the natural order of things. Ever since agriculture was invented, capitalism has been the natural order of things. Saying "victims of capitalism" is like saying "victims of samsara". It has no meaning. When people say "victims of communism" or "victims of nazism" they refer to victims caused by that ideology, victims that would not have existent without the existence of that ideology.

And some numbers: Half my life the pib per capita was 1.500$ in my country, then it got to 10.000$ thanks to capitalism. And I was born after communism collapsed. My parents lived almost all their life in abject poverty and fear. My country was turned back to the stone age thanks to communism. 1 billion people got out of poverty in China alone thanks to capitalism, thanks to the return to the natural order of things. Those who criticize free market economy never ever lived in anything else. You'll never see a person who actually lived in communism having good words to say about it. Communism continues to cause problems to our country today cause it's hard to build a democracy over night from zero. The great struggles people went through when first establishing democracies, we have to go through them again. And in many countries the pro-democratic forces fail the bitter fight with corrupt oligarchs.

You never really appreciate what having a free market, liberal democracy means if you got it for granted by birth and never saw the struggles that went into building it in the first place. It's actually extremely, extremely difficult to establish a democracy.

In my opinion this topic is a classic example of "whatabautism" : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
During the cold war, when communist were asked about murdering of huge percents of their population (as high as 30% of the population murdered in Cambodgia), about abject poverty, zero human rights, zero justice, etc. - they always resorted to whataboutism. "Hey, what about panama ?" or "Hey, you have some poor people too in your country. What about them ?". In modern times you have "Hey, what about Iraq ? What about that mister Perfect ?".

This topic is exactly that: a ridiculous attempt of whataboutism as a reaction to the "Victims of communism" topic.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, Southern California, USA
Contact:

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:25 pm

Taking advantage of people is the natural order of things???? OH Brother!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Circle5
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Circle5 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:28 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:Taking advantage of people is the natural order of things???? OH Brother!!
Free market capitalism is the natural order of things in an economy. Taking advantage of people is something that depends on individual traits for which people have to take responsability. And taking advantage of people is about 1000 times worse in a communist system than in any other system. It's basically a system built on taking advantage of other people work. There is no system that produces higher levels of corruptions than communism. Everybody in a communism was corrupt to a bigger or lesser degree. It was basically impossible not to be corrupt in such an economic system.

No other system in this world ever produced higher levels of corruption and exploitation of the common people. (by the "wise boys" or "nomenclature") Even if you would put the most corrupt politicians in power in US, you would not come close to 1% the level of exploitation that happens in communism because the capitalist system simply does not allow it, it's built in a certain way to not stop as much as possible such things. In communism on the other hand, the economy was based on the idealistic idea that "nobody is corrupt, there is no need for checks and obstacles against corruption".

I repeat, no other system ever tried produced higher levels of corruption and exploitation of the weak by the "wise boys" than communism.

Just take a moment to think about the following problem: Even with all the checks and obstacles, there is still so much corruption and exploitation in a free market democracy. Then just imagine how much more there is in a system with no rule of law, no democracy, absolute power and no checks and an economy based on the idea that there is no need for checks and ballances cause nobody is corrupt anyway. And that's how you end up in stone age standard of living.
Last edited by Circle5 on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3051
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Mr Man » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:31 pm

Circle5 wrote:
And I would add: Capitalism is not an ideology
But you would be wrong.

Circle5
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Circle5 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:38 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Circle5 wrote:
And I would add: Capitalism is not an ideology
But you would be wrong.
In communism, there was still capitalism. Everybody stold things from where they were working and sold them on the black market. For example people building cars would sell incredible amounts of car pieces, the manager would do the same, everybody everywhere was stealing as much as they could from the place they were working at. And these things were sold on the black market.

Ever since aggriculture was invented, free market was the natural order of things. You buy and sell things and the price is determined by demand and offer. Not even the nazist tried to change this. Only communism was an ideology that run against this natural order of things and claimed an artificial system will produce better results. But it didn't. All communist countries ended in 1.500$ pib per capita compared to 50.000$ of USA. All ended close to africa in poverty levels.

After we got to modern age, some things needed to be done on contracts and loans, banks appeared, etc. This is the same free market we had in the stone age, only that now we have contracts and official laws that need to be enforced by a judicial system. And this is what we call "capitalism". As Pseudobabble said:
Capitalism is the freedom to exchange goods, and the enforcement of the fairness of those transactions.

Circle5
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Circle5 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:48 pm

What kind of selfish person would support a system that gets you as poor as in africa ? And for what ? For his clinging to political views ? How selfish must one be do to such a thing ? How many countries need to be transformed into a hell hole like my own until people stop with this ? A third of the world was set back to stone age + put in total oppression and fear because of these stupid ideas proven wrong both in theory and in practice, in every place they were ever tried.

Those shouting they care for the poor and others are greedy should look a little in the mirror. What kind of person would support putting milions in stone age standard of living ? What kind of heartless person is that ? What about people like me who lived half their life in 1.500$ per capita ? What about my parents who lived in abject poverty and even a decade of famine ? Why no compassion for us ?

But we all know, none of those saying bad words about capitalism ever lived in a non-capitalist country. And of course they would never ever move to such a country to live there. Maybe a 7 day tourist trip but as for actually living there, no thank you.
Last edited by Circle5 on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3051
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Mr Man » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:52 pm

Circle5 wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
Circle5 wrote:
And I would add: Capitalism is not an ideology
But you would be wrong.
In communism, there was still capitalism. Everybody stold things from where they were working and sold them on the black market. For example people building cars would sell incredible amounts of car pieces, the manager would do the same, everybody everywhere was stealing as much as they could from the place they were working at. And these things were sold on the black market.

Ever since aggriculture was invented, free market was the natural order of things. You buy and sell things and the price is determined by demand and offer. Not even the nazist tried to change this. Only communism was an ideology that run against this natural order of things and claimed an artificial system will produce better results. But it didn't. All communist countries ended in 1.500$ pib per capita compared to 50.000$ of USA. All ended close to africa in poverty levels.

After we got to modern age, some things needed to be done on contracts and loans, banks appeared, etc. This is the same free market we had in the stone age, only that now we have contracts and official laws that need to be enforced by a judicial system. And this is what we call "capitalism". As Pseudobabble said:
Capitalism is the freedom to exchange goods, and the enforcement of the fairness of those transactions.
The point was that what you said was wrong. It was incorrect. Check your dictionary.

PS I think you are taking this thread off topic.
Last edited by Mr Man on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Circle5
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Victims of Capitalism.

Post by Circle5 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:53 pm

The point was that what you said was wrong. It was incorrect. Check your dictionary.
I am sorry but you're wrong again. Go check the dictionary.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests