The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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rightviewftw
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:19 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:15 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:08 am
you hold Vinnanam Anidassanam not referring to Nibbana.
Sad but true. We certainly both agree here. Add Bhikkhu Sujato also.
Sujato is not here to speak for himself and i doubt he authorized you to proclaim alignment with Waharaka on his behalf so better leave it at that.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:19 am
Well Sujato is not here to speak for himself and i doubt he authorized you to proclaim alignment with Waharaka on his behalf so better leave it at that.
Sujato has written about this, here: https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/13 ... E2%80%99t/
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:19 am
Well Sujato is not here to speak for himself and i doubt he authorized you to proclaim alignment with Waharaka on his behalf so better leave it at that.
Sujato has written about this, here:
I don't care, not here.
:offtopic:

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:21 am

rightviewftw:

Stop talking about things you do not understand. "Viññāṇam Anidassanam" simply means, "viññāṇa cannot be seen" like a rupa (material form).
- "anidassanam" is simply "cannot be seen".


Now, why did the Buddha say that?

If viññāṇa is just like the other three mental aggregates (vedana, saññā, sankhāra), then it is obvious that viññāṇa cannot be seen.
- However, viññāṇa is more than mental.
- Viññāṇa is "in between a nāma and rupa". It has "energy" and that is kammic energy.

Those who are making these senseless comments have obviously not taken time to read what I post.
- Without reading what is written by those with opposing views, you simply do not know whether those views may have merit.

The bottom line here is what is meant by viññāṇa. Those who is say it is "just consciousness" need to explain that verse I have referred to in my most recent posts. That verse is in many suttas, not just one.
- We can avoid a lot of unnecessary comments that way.

P.S. I had not read DooDoot's earlier post with a citation from scholar monk P.A. Payutto on nirodha.

It says: "As for nirodha in the third Noble Truth (or the Dependent Origination cycle in cessation mode), although it also describes a natural process, its emphasis is on practical considerations. It is translated in two ways in the Visuddhimagga. One way traces the etymology to "ni" (without) + "rodha" (prison, confine, obstacle, wall, impediment), thus rendering the meaning as "without impediment," "free of confinement." This is explained as "free of impediments, that is, the confinement of samsara." Another definition traces the origin to anuppada, meaning "not arising", and goes on to say "nirodha here does not mean bhanga, breaking up and dissolution."

A better explanation: Nirōdha comes from “nir”+”udaya”, where “nir” means stop and “udaya” means “arise”. Thus nirōdha means stop something from arising. In Buddha Dhamma anything happens due to one or more causes. Thus if one does not want something to happen, one should remove the causes for it, and thus stop it from arising. "
- Whatever suffering that we experience now is due to past causes.
- What we can do now is to stop future suffering from arising.

As I have explained many times, even the Buddha had back pains, etc. But after his passing away (Parinibbana) there would be no more suffering.
- In the Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta, the Buddha clearly declared the ultimate goal: "akuppā me vimutti, ayam antimā jāti, natthi dāni punabbhavo" or "I have attained the ultimate release (from all suffering); this is the last birth, no more births for me".
- Of course, he stopped one type of suffering that arises DURING a lifetime. That is mental suffering called, "samphassa jā vedanā" or "vedanā arising from "san" + "phassa" (contact with "san' in one's mind).

The suffering (or vēdanā) that a living Arahant has eliminated is called "samphassa jā vēdanā". This is what leads to depression in some people.
- This is related to "san" (greed, hate, ignorance), because "samphassa" is "san" + "phassa", or "contact with one's own defilements (san)".
Last edited by Lal on Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:08 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:23 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am
I don't care, not here.
Well, you raised the topic of your beloved teaching of "consciousness without nama-rupa" given to non-Buddhist Brahmans (in DN 11) & Brahma Gods (in MN 49). Sujato appears to say its not Nibbana. :)
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:26 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:23 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am
I don't care, not here.
Well, you raised the topic of your beloved teaching of "consciousness without nama-rupa" given to Brahmans (in DN 11) & Brahma Gods (in MN 49). Sujato appears to say its not Nibbana. :pig:
It is you who bring Sujato into this, honestly i don't care what he thinks. I understand the classical interpretation and arrived at it myself and was thus pleased to find myself alligned with the commentators on the matter.
You, Lal, Sujato, Nanavira are are hardly considered Theravadins anyway, as a matter of fact i do not see any more "problematic" group out there!

You four are hardly aligned in your own interpretations, your only common point is that you reject the classical interpretation and sutta inference.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:35 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:26 am
I understand the classical interpretation and arrived at it myself and was thus pleased to find myself aligned with the commentators on the matter.
Since the suttas say consciousness & nama-rupa are mutually dependent, the commentators must contradict the suttas.

I have attempted to be logical with you before.

1. The audience in the suttas was non-Buddhist. None in the audience gained enlightenment.

2. Buddha does not teach Nibbana to non-Buddhists who can't attain enlightenment.

3. The word 'nama-rupa' probably has its Brahmanistic (rather than Buddhist) meaning.

4. Thus Buddha was probably instructing these Brahmas and Brahmins to stop "naming forms".

5. The Buddha already said the four elements cannot cease without remainder therefore when the phrase says: "ending of nama-rupa", this cannot mean the "rupa" the Buddha defined as composed of the four elements.

6. The term "nama-rupa" here can only have a Brahministic meaning, namely, the naming of forms.

:smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:39 am

People posting here are asked to refrain from personal and insulting comments. Disagreements are fine, but several ad hominem phrases and posts have already been removed. Please keep discussion within the bounds of the ToS, and avoid meta-discussion, or the thread will be locked.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:46 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:43 am
Your "theories" are not worth addressing and i won't waste my time.
I am referring directly to the suttas. DN 11 & MN 49 contradict the Buddhist suttas because they are a conversation with Brahmins. The Buddhist suttas say:
With the arising of consciousness there is the arising of mentality-materiality. With the cessation of consciousness there is the cessation of mentality-materiality.

MN 9
Very well then, Kotthita my friend, I will give you an analogy; for there are cases where it is through the use of an analogy that intelligent people can understand the meaning of what is being said. It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form

SN 12.67
Based on the above suttas, it is not possible for there to be a consciousness where nama-rupa has been destroyed.

Again from SN 22.53:
Were someone to say, 'I will describe a coming, a going, a passing away, an arising, a growth, an increase, or a proliferation of consciousness apart from form, from feeling, from perception, from fabrications,' that would be impossible.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
You appear to be taking Refuge in teachings given the Brahma gods and Brahmins where none of them attained enlightenment.

:soap:
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:53 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:49 am
tradition explains it
Buddhism became extinct in India and was virtually extinct in Sri Lanka, requiring the Burmese to reinstate the Sangha in the attempt to counter British Christianity. Tradition it seems was in poor hands. When Buddhism become indistinguishable from Hinduism, it was easy for it to become extinct.
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:49 am
just a sign of stupidity.
Anyway, it seems you were unable to counter MN 9, SN 22.67 and SN 22.53. The discussion seems finalised. :)
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by sentinel » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:27 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:35 am

6. The term "nama-rupa" here can only have a Brahministic meaning, namely, the naming of forms.

:smile:
I am sure there are other people that do not think so . According to a monk whom I listened to whom said , namarupa is a codename representing the processes of the sense base versus sense object . That seems to explain how the consciousness conditions the namarupa and in turn namarupa conditions the consciousness .
It is a cyclic conditioning .
:buddha1:

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:59 am

I would like to start this series on "the practice" with a post on what not to do. I get a lot of questions from people who insist that breath meditation "works". It is true that breath meditation can provide a relief which can be exhilarating for those who have not experienced a "permanent cooling down".
- The latter is a bit harder to get, but will be a permanent solution.  We will discuss why breath mediation works to some extent, but why it is a bad idea to use as a long-term solution.
- Furthermore, "assa/passa" or "assāsa/passāsa" in Buddha Dhamma does not mean "breathing in/breathing out", just as viññāna does not mean just consciousness. So, please do not waste time quoting from "scholarly articles" on Ānapāna, unless you can first address the issue of viññāna.

Breath Meditation Is Addictive and Harmful in the Long Run

Introduction

1. Doing breath meditation to achieve a "temporary relief" from the "suffering in this world" is like taking an aspirin or a tylenol or a sleeping pill to get relief from a headache that has a root cause in the onset of cancer in the body.

- One needs to get long-term medical treatment in order to get rid of the cancer. Then the headaches will also go away.
- In the same way, in order to stop future suffering from arising, one needs to remove defilements (greed, hate, and ignorance) from one's mind. Then all the mental stresses will also go away permanently.
- It makes sense to get a temporary relief using a pill, but one MUST start working on a long-term solution for the root cause of cancer.
- In the same way, it is OK to do a bit of breath meditation to deviate the mind from a stressful situation, but it is unwise to use it as a long-term solution.

2. The problem here is that many people get "addicted" to breath meditation, just as a drug addict starts an addiction by getting used to "taking a pill" to get to a "ecstatic state of mind" for a few hours.

- The problem is that the drug addict will have to keep increasing the dose with time, in order to get the "same kick".
- Even though breath meditation is not directly harmful like drug addiction, it is harmful in the sense that it will shift the focus from the main goal of a permanent solution to the "problem of suffering".
- Furthermore, breath meditation can lead to anariya jhana and that is definitely a trap. Once people start enjoying jhana, they even equate that to Nibbana. I will discuss this later on.
- The Buddha always analyzed a given problem in detail, so that one could get a clear picture of the whole situation. So, let us analyze possible causes for the agitation of the mind.

Heating of the Mind Due to Too Many Sense Inputs

3. The mind can focus on only one thing at a time. However, it SEEMS that we can see, hear, smell, taste, touch, and also think about concepts all at the same time.

- For example, when watching a movie, we see and hear the movie, and also be thinking about the movie plot. If we are eating popcorn, we can touch, smell, and taste popcorn too. So it SEEMS that we are using all six sense faculties "at the same time".
- But we have that perception of a mind engaged in all at once only because the mind is VERY FAST. It can go back and forth among the six sense inputs at an incredibly fast rate.
- The Buddha said that the mind is the fastest entity in the world.

4. But in the above example, the mind (or more accurately the brain) gets overworked. All those sense inputs need to be processed by the brain, which is like a computer. You may have seen that a computer can get "overheated" when it is running too many applications at the same time.

- This is why we cannot watch movies all day long. If we watch even two movies without a break, we are likely to get a massive headache. The brain gets overloaded.
- So, this is one kind of stress that we feel. It is simply due to the mind (and the brain) trying to process too many sense inputs.
- There is another, more important, way that a mind can get stressed. This may not be obvious to many. Let us discuss that now.

Heating of the Mind Due to Greed, Hate, and Ignorance

5. Do you remember the last time when you got really mad? How did that feel? You get hot. Whole body becomes hot and agitated; blood pressure goes up; face becomes dark, because the blood becomes dark (By the way, this is clear evidence that the mind can affect the body).

- This “burning up” is called “tāpa” in Pāli (තාප in Sinhala), and is due to greed, hate, and ignorance. “Ātāpi” means the opposite, “cooling down via getting rid of those defilements”.
- This is the "fire" discussed i n detail in the Ādittapariyaya Sutta (SN 35.28).
- Therefore, “ātāpī sampajānō” means “remove the fire or heat from one’s mind by being aware of the ‘san‘ or “immoral tendencies”.
- When someone can get to the “ātāpi sampajānō” state, one feels calm and “cooled down”; see, “Kāyānupassanā – The Section on Habits (Sampajānapabba)“ and other sections in "Mahā Satipatthāna Sutta" at puredhamma.net.

6. When one acts with greed, “heating up” still happens, may be to a lesser extent than when one is angry. As a kid, when I was stealing something, I felt heated and uncomfortable.

- Same is true when one acts with ignorance too. One is not certain whether that is the right thing to do; the mind goes back and forth: is this right or wrong? should I do it or not? This is called “vicikiccā” in Pāli. Because one does not really know, one is not certain, one becomes anxious, and the body gets heated up.
- On the other hand, do you remember how you felt when you made someone happy, either via a good deed or word? You yourself cooled down; it felt good. Didn’t you feel the opposite of when you got mad?

7. Thus, when one gives up acting with hate, greed, or ignorance, one becomes less agitated, at ease, with a sense of peacefulness. One can enhance this calmness by also engaging in moral deeds - this is sila or moral conduct.

- Giving up an immoral lifestyle and engaging in moral activities is the basis for getting to Nibbāna, the ultimate "cooling down".
- As one can see the benefits of cooling down, one will avoid actions done with hate, greed, and ignorance. And one will be looking forward to do actions of goodwill, generosity, and with mindfulness.
- Avoiding greed, hate, and ignorance is the same as avoiding dasa akusala.

Mind Can Handle Only One Sense Input at a Time

8. In #3, #4 above, I mentioned that the mind can focus on only one sense input at a time. Let us take an analogy to see why that is so.

- We all have see a "ring of fire" at some circuses. The performer rotates a long stick with burning torch and it looks like a "ring". Yet, we know that it is not really a "ring", but it is just the fast rotation that "fools our eyes" to be seen as a continuous ring.
- The light is coming from only one point on the circle at a given time. But we see it as a continuous ring; see #13 of "Do I Have “A Mind” That Is Fixed and “Mine”?" at puredhamma.net.

9. In the same way, at a given instant, only one sense input is processed by the mind: seeing ,hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, or contemplating. They come in packets of about a few millisecond (a millisecond is a thousandth of a second).

- Yes. Scientists have done systematic studies in recent years to confirm this picture that the Buddha explained in Abhidhamma 2500 years ago!

10. For example, we may see a snapshot of the movie at a given instant. A few milliseconds later, we hear a word, followed by the brief smelling of popcorn. and so on. They go through the mind very fast, and we FEEL LIKE we are experiencing all those at the same time.

- The mind is able to sort all those different sense inputs and present a cohesive continuous picture. That is the magic of the mind.
- Even just the movie itself is a series of static pictures projected on the screen at a fast rate, above 20 frames per second. If we slow down the projector, we will be able to see individual frames very similar to a picture taken by a camera.
- A movie camera just takes 24 frames a second. When those are projected on the screen, it appears to be continuous.

11. This is why the Buddha said that the mind is like a magician. The fast mind is able to give us the impression of experiencing many things at the same time. But it is really a series of discrete events happening VERY FAST.

- All those sense inputs need to be processed by the brain for the mind to experience them. 
- If there are too many, that leads to stress in the mind and in the brain. This is why one could get a headache by watching too many movies or television programs.
- Even if it is just one sense input (say, looking at an attractive person and generating lustful thoughts), that itself can lead to stress (even though most people do not feel it that way). Here the real stress is masked by one's anticipation of sense pleasures.

Why Breath Meditation “Works” on a Temporary Basis

12. Now we have discussed three things that come in to play.

- A mind (with the help of the brain) can process only one sense input at a time. But it processes a large number of them in a second so that we have the illusion that we are experiencing many things at the same time.
- If the mind is experiencing many sense inputs (called ārammana in Pāli) -- like watching a movie and eating popcorn -- both the brain and mind get stressed out or get "overheated".
- Another type of "heating" happens with greedy, hateful, and ignorant thoughts. Even if one is just focused on one thing (say anger on someone), the mind gets heated internally and that is called "tāpa" in Buddha Dhamma.

13. When we focus the mind on breath, we are forcing the mind to "stay focused on just feeling the breath". The mind is staying on one "thought object" and not running back and forth among many. Also the brain virtually has no "load" to process.

This also avoids the more subtle yet important "heating up"  is due to greedy, hateful, or ignorant thoughts from coming to the mind.
14. Now we can see why "breath meditation works" on a temporary basis.

- It disengages the mind from too many sense inputs, and forces to stay on one task. That is really the easiest to see.
- Furthermore, it also removes the possibility of sensual, hateful or even ignorant thoughts arising in the mind. The mind is SIMPLY OCCUPIED with one harmless sense input: monitoring the breath or something like that.
- You can prove this for yourself by focusing the mind on the up and down movement of your belly. In mundane kasina meditation, yogis focus the mind on a kasina object. Since most of you are used to breath meditation, it may appear to be better, but if you spend time doing any other type, with time you will get used to it.

Breath Meditation: Addictive and No Long-Term Benefits

15. As you can see, "breath meditation" can be effective in solving the first problem: It can keep the mind on a single focus.

- While it can find a temporary solution to the problem of "internal heat generation" (tāpa), by SUPPRESSING the root causes (greed, hate, and ignorance), it is not able to permanently remove them.
- Then they can be "triggered" (or made to come to surface) when a strong sense input (like seeing an attractive figure). The the "agitation" will come back.
- There is a second problem: When we have those lurking in our minds, we tend to do dasa akusala too, which which will also lead to more suffering in the future.
- Therefore, REMOVING (instead of just suppressing) greed, hate, and ignorance will benefit in the short term as well as in the long term.
- That permanent solution is in the real Ānāpāna bhāvanā in Buddha Dhamma.

16. As we discussed earlier, someone in pain feels the need to keep taking pain relievers to avoid the pain. A drug addict feels the need to keep taking drugs to maintain the "high".

- In the same a way, a person engaged in breath meditation feels the need to do it on a regular basis to "maintain the calmness".
- If one does this all day long for several days (while at a retreat), one really starts feeling a "sense of great relief".
- But when one leaves the retreat and gets back to the "rat race", all those agitations come back.
- I know several people who go to retreats to get "refueled" on a regular basis. Getting addicted to breath meditation can be harmful in that way. One is wasting precious time in doing something that will only provide a short-term solution AND is preventing one from undertaking a long-term PERMANENT solution.

The Better Solution - Real Ānāpāna/Satipatthāna

17. The better way is to systematically get rid of the tendencies for such greedy, hateful, and ignorant thoughts to come to mind and stay there.

- That cannot be done in a few days. It needs an effort in two ways: First one needs to understand why greed, hate, and ignorance (dasa akusala) give rise to "heating of the mind" or tāpa.
- At the same time, one needs to live a moral life with minimum burdens. We will live only for about 100 years at most. Is there a point in amassing a huge sum of money or luxurious things only to leave all that behind at death?
- The more things one "owns", the more stressful will be one's mind. One's mind will be burdened all the time.
- Of course, that does not mean one should endure poverty and suffering. We should ALWAYS minimize suffering. That is the "middle way" prescribed by the Buddha.

18. This seems to be simple enough, and it is. But there is much more details on how one can increase this "relief" or "cooling down" or "ātāpa". But it is a step-by-step process.

- The relief from this "heat" or "burning" can be felt especially after one really gets on the Noble Path, by comprehending the root causes for this stress.

19. Many people tell me that they cannot focus their minds and do a mediation session without focusing on the breath. If they try to meditate on a Dhamma concept, the mind tries to fly off in different directions.

- The solution is simple. It is not essential to do "formal meditation sessions" in the beginning.
- In fact, if you read the Sabbāsava Sutta (MN 2) carefully, you will see that bhavana is essential only after the Sōtapanna stage (“āsavā dassanā pahātabbā“), in order to get to the Sakadāgāmi stage and beyond (“āsavā bhāvanā pahātabbā“).
- What is really needed is "contemplation" and "examination", which is vimansa (also related to dhammavicaya sabbojjanga), though that could be also called "bhāvanā".

20. In any case, it is good to understand and practice the real Ānāpāna/Satipatthāna  bhāvanā (what to take in to the mind and keep/what to be rejected from the mind) even before getting to the Sōtapanna stage

- The most important first thing is to learn true Buddha Dhamma and live a moral life (sila) while engaging in meritorious deeds like giving and helping out others in need.
- This will help maintain one's focus on learning Dhamma concepts first. Then one would be able to do formal meditation sessions without the help of breath meditation.
- Once we cover some essential background material, we will discuss the real Ānāpāna bhāvanā.

It could be helpful to read the following posts:

Part 1 (Nibbana): Three Kinds of Happiness Nov 23, 2018 (p.50).

Part 2 (Nibbana): How Does Abstaining from Dasa Akusala Lead to Happiness?  Nov 24, 2018 (p. 50)
Last edited by Lal on Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:49 am

Lal wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:59 am
"assa/passa" or "assāsa/passāsa" in Buddha Dhamma does not mean "breathing in/breathing out", just as viññāna does not mean just consciousness. So, please do not waste time quoting from "scholarly articles" on Ānapāna, unless you can first address the issue of viññāna.
As the two terms are completely different, this seems to be a considerable non sequitur. Even if someone does not subscribe to your view of viññāna, there is no reason why their understanding of assāsa/passāsa should not be correct. My advice for members wishing to post on this issue of breath meditation is to completely ignore this.
The problem here is that many people get "addicted" to breath meditation, just as a drug addict starts an addiction by getting used to "taking a pill" to get to a "ecstatic state of mind" for a few hours.

- The problem is that the drug addict will have to keep increasing the dose with time, in order to get the "same kick".
And there the analogy seems to break down, as we don't hear of many breath-meditators who seek help because their addiction to anapana has driven them to meditate so much they are failing to care for themselves. In meditating for nearly 40 years, I haven't noticed this tendency in my mind, or heard it discussed by friends with more experience. They seem to be in control of their meditation, and don't regret starting it, whereas drug addicts are almost invariably the opposite.

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Manopubbangama
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Manopubbangama » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:36 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:53 am

Buddhism became extinct in India and was virtually extinct in Sri Lanka, requiring the Burmese to reinstate the Sangha in the attempt to counter British Christianity.
I'm sorry but this is factually incorrect.

Here is a bit of history:

1070 was the first time that the Burmese reinstated Buddhism in Sri Lanka.

In 1592, Vimaladharmasuriya I of Kandy sent for Burmese monks as there was hardly any monks left in Sri Lanka.

The Amarapura Nikaya was founded in 1800 from Burma.

It seems that the Burmese rekindled the fire of Buddhism in Sri Lanka many, many times, it appears?

Where were the British in 1070? :thinking:

In 1592? :thinking:

It seems the Sri Lankans needed help from the Burmese even before "Britain" existed? :shrug:

Please explain?
:alien:



I would like to start this series on "the practice" with a post on what not to do. I get a lot of questions from people who insist that breath meditation "works". It is true that breath meditation can provide a relief which can be exhilarating for those who have not experienced a "permanent cooling down".
Where does the vipassana come into your system?

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:59 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
My advice for members wishing to post on this issue of breath meditation is to completely ignore this.
I think it would be better to provide evidence rather than making statements. Have you or anyone at Sutta Central decided how to resolve the contradiction in translating vinnana as just consciousness?
And there the analogy seems to break down, as we don't hear of many breath-meditators who seek help because their addiction to anapana has driven them to meditate so much they are failing to care for themselves.
I did not say such a thing. I just said it would deviate one from the real goal of attaining Nibbana. We all have not only attained jhana, but also abhinna powers in our past lives; there is nothing to show for such "achievements' now. One's first goal should be to avoid future births in the apayas. The primary way to achieve that is to get rid of excess greed, hate, and ignorance. The last one REQUIRES learning true Dhamma, not breath meditation and kasina mediation from the Visuddhimagga.
- It would be really helpful if one can illustrate how breathing in and out can lead to removal of greed, hate, and ignorance from one's mind.
- I have explained how one can get to a sense of calmness just by focusing on anything, not just breath. That is not a big deal.
- One could also get to ANARIYA (mundane) jhana by truly SUPPRESSING desire for sense pleasures (like ancient yogis did by staying in forests and away from sense attractions). Even that is not a big deal. We all have done those things in our past lives. In fact anariya or mundane jhana come easily to those who have cultivated them in RECENT past lives.

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