The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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StormBorn
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:31 am

WorldTraveller wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:13 pm
Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:42 pm
Lal wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:36 pm
I will start on a different topic today, and will come back to the concept of "san" in future posts.
Concept of "san"? Is that Buddhism?
This is something I heard:
When the former President of Sri Lanka, Mahinda Rajapakshe competed in the 2005 (?) election, he utilised the ideology of Sinhala Buddhist nationalism to the extreme. After he came to power the gov. radio had this particular set of stanzas broadcasted in every morning claiming those were found carved to a wooden beam in the temple of tooth relic in Kandy, Sri Lanka. These stanzas said to be very auspicious for the President Mahinda and the country. Broadcasting these stanzas became very popular and followed by other radio channels too.

The stanzas said to be compiled by ancient Arahants,
yet not found anywhere in the Canon, commentaries, sub-c, sub-sub c...etc.

If I remember clearly, these stanzas had many "san" prefixes. That's why Waharaka Cult created a so-called "san" concept by using the popularity of those stanzas. :twisted:
Here's your saṃ mantra in Sinhala. It's called "Ratnamālī Yantraya". :smile: A grandma of a Sri Lankan friend of mine still keeping a printout of it with her as it says all types of good things will come to the one who keeps it! :jawdrop: :) It has 25 saṃs. The friend also confirmed the part I highlighted in blue. He never even heard of a "Waharaka".
Attachments
san mantra.jpg
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:27 am

Sam Vara said: “That looks like "fake news" to me. Can you point us to some document or scholarly article where this agreement is reached? And can you explain why they haven't realised their mistake and haven't subsequently rectified it?”

You don’t need “scholarly articles” to know how words sound in Sinhala. Ask anyone who speaks Sinhala how these words are pronounced:

Gati (“ගටි”) is pronounced with a “t” sound like in "city".
Gathi (“ගති”)is pronounced with a “th” sound like in “think”. Those English translations for the word “ගති” in the Tipiataka have been written in English as “gati”.
P.S. From DN 12, in the 9. Anāvattidhammasambodhiparāyaṇa section: "තස්ස කා ගති, ඛෝ අභිසම්පරායෝ" written in English as“tassa kā gati, ko abhisamparāyo?” which in Sinhala is “ඇයගේ ගති කුමක්ද? මරණින් පසු උපත කුමක්ද?” or “what are her gati (in the new life) and where is she born?”.

Another example is: “citta” which is the standard English word for චිත්ත in the Tipitaka.
But චිත්ත is really pronounced as “chiththa” with "th" sound as in "math".

As I said, I do agree with this adopted method though. Otherwise, the English counterparts could be very long.

However, this could lead to confusion too.

The word “අත්තා” for “oneself” is written as “attā” as in “Rūpī attā hoti arūpī ca attā hoti” in SN 24.44. However, “attā” really sounds like "අට්ටා".

“අට්ට” for the number eight is written as “attha”, as in “aṭṭha purisapuggalā” or “eight Noble persons” in DN 16.

“rūpaṃ niccaṃ vā aniccaṃ vā” in SN 24.6 is in Tipitaka as, “රූපං නිචචං වා අනිච්චං වා” which is really pronounced, “rūpaṃ nichcham vā anichcham vā”. By the way, රූපං has been written as “rupam” or ‘rupan”.

There are many examples I can give. So, one could make mistakes if one does not know how these words are really pronounced.

P.S. Here is another example:

“Attā hi attanō nāthō
kō hi nāthō parō siyā
attanā hi sudanténa
nātham labhati dullabham”

(Dhammapada verse 160)

This is an important verse where the word "atta/attā" (pronounced "aththa"/"aththā") is used with two very different meanings in two places within the same verse.

In the conventional sense, "attā" means "a person". That is the meaning in the first word of the gātha.

The deeper meaning when pronounced "atta" is "in full control", the opposite of which is anatta ("helpless") as in the Tilakkhana.
When one attains the true "atta" state (Nibbana), one has become "nātha", which is still used in Sinhala meaning "found refuge or salvation". As long as one remains in the 31 realms (this world), one is "anātha" (which is the Sinhala word for anatta) or "helpless".
One becomes atta (attanō) by  cleansing (one's mind): sudantena (sudda means "clean").

Labhati means get and dullabhan means rare, and as we saw above "nātha" is attaining Nibbāna. So, nāthan labhati dullabhan means "it is not easy to get to salvation (Nibbāna)".
Therefore, we can translate the verse as follows:

“One indeed is one's own refuge

how can another be a refuge to one?

one reaches salvation by purifying one's mind

getting to refuge (Nibbāna) is rare”

Therefore, one needs to know which meaning (mundane or other) to be used in a given case, depending on the context.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:40 pm

The pronunciation of the Middle Indic Prākrit called Pāli cannot be inferred from modern Sinhala pronunciation any more than Classical Latin's pronunciation can be inferred from modern Romanian pronunciation.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:07 pm

The pronunciation of the Middle Indic Prākrit called Pāli cannot be inferred from modern Sinhala pronunciation any more than Classical Latin's pronunciation can be inferred from modern Romanian pronunciation.
OK. Please interpret each of those your way.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Lal wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:07 pm
The pronunciation of the Middle Indic Prākrit called Pāli cannot be inferred from modern Sinhala pronunciation any more than Classical Latin's pronunciation can be inferred from modern Romanian pronunciation.
OK. Please interpret each of those your way.
You're suggesting I pronounce Pāli, Sinhala, Latin, Romanian, with my own spin?

No thank you. I would rather pronounce Pāli like Pāli, Sinhala like Sinhala, Latin like Latin, and Romanian like Romanian.

I'd rather not pronounce Latin like Romanian, and I'd rather not pronounce Pāli like Sinhala.

Actually, Romanian and Latin, believe it or not, are much closer than Pāli and Sinhala. Pāli is a descendant of Magahī Prākrit. Sinhala is a descendant of a different language, namely Mahārāṣṭri Prākrit.

Sinhala has little familial relation to Pāli as a language, despite the amount of loanwords it has incorporated from Pāli Buddhism. Thai actually has more Pāli loanwords in it than Sinhala.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:02 pm

Lal wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:27 am
Sam Vara said: “That looks like "fake news" to me. Can you point us to some document or scholarly article where this agreement is reached? And can you explain why they haven't realised their mistake and haven't subsequently rectified it?”

You don’t need “scholarly articles” to know how words sound in Sinhala. Ask anyone who speaks Sinhala how these words are pronounced:
My question is about the evidence for the claim that
When the European scholars started translating the Tipitaka, they had to come to an agreement on how to write certain words with the English alphabet. They decided to make, for example, “th” sound with just “t” just to keep the length of words shorter.
Knowing how Sinhala words sound is not evidence for this. Evidence for this claim would require the date and circumstances of such a "decision", and also a credible motive for their eschewing longer words. Believe it or not, European scholars are not frightened by long words and have no reason to conspire to eliminate them from their texts.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:35 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:02 pm
Lal wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:27 am
Sam Vara said: “That looks like "fake news" to me. Can you point us to some document or scholarly article where this agreement is reached? And can you explain why they haven't realised their mistake and haven't subsequently rectified it?”

You don’t need “scholarly articles” to know how words sound in Sinhala. Ask anyone who speaks Sinhala how these words are pronounced:
My question is about the evidence for the claim that
When the European scholars started translating the Tipitaka, they had to come to an agreement on how to write certain words with the English alphabet. They decided to make, for example, “th” sound with just “t” just to keep the length of words shorter.
Knowing how Sinhala words sound is not evidence for this. Evidence for this claim would require the date and circumstances of such a "decision", and also a credible motive for their eschewing longer words. Believe it or not, European scholars are not frightened by long words and have no reason to conspire to eliminate them from their texts.
From earlier in the thread:
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:40 pm
Lal wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:27 pm
Coemgenu said:
Buddhists in Sri Lanka have been translating anicca and anatta into Sanskrit as "anitya" and "anātma" since at least 400AD. 1400 years before Westerners ever read a Buddhist text. The Sanskrit Early Buddhist texts also come from Sri Lanka. The texts that were translated into Chinese in the 500s AD were also retrieved from Sri Lanka in the 400s AD, and those texts are translated according to the same convention as the Sanskritic texts.


Yes. The translation to Sanskrit was done incorrectly from the beginning, when Mahayana was initiated in India around the first century. That is what the Europeans also picked up. But they were not distorted in Sri Lanka, except by the Abhayagiri sector as I mentioned in the previous post.

Anyway, I will make another post to clarify this issue, and to respond to the post by Mike.

I have already explained anicca, dukkha, anatta many times, per post by SarathW.
First it was Westerners in the 1800s. Now it's Mahāyānikāḥ in the 100s. Your sect should make up its mind on its alternative historical narratives.

The translations into Sanskrit were not done by Mahāyānikāḥ. Abhyagrihivihāra housed both śrāvaka and bodhisattva pracitioners, and practice as well as study was undertaken there of both Sanskrit texts and Prākrit texts, like the Pāli recensions.

Indian histories as well as those of neighbouring nations do not indicate that the Mahāvihāra was ever destroyed. It housed 3000 monks in 414AD. The tale of it's complete destruction is only substantiated in the Mahāvaṃsa. This text also makes the ahistorical claim that the Buddha visited Sri Lanka, so why rely on it so much?
He might possibly think that Europeans knew about Buddhism, and translated it extensively, in the first century CE, but we would need confirmation from his as to if this is an accurate reception of what he intended to say in the above quote.

It should be known that the issue of mistranslated Sanskrit scriptures is quite literally never brought up in the extensive historical records of dialogue we have between the historical Theravāda & Sarvāstivāda.

If one reads the Kathāvatthu of the Abhidhammapiṭaka, this issue is made very clear. That is where one will find many of the dialogues between the ancient Theravāda and their Sarvāstivāda (Sabbatthivāda) rivals attested. SuttaCentral, for instance, hosts an English translation of it.

It is accessible here: https://suttacentral.net/kv
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:29 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:40 pm
The pronunciation of the Middle Indic Prākrit called Pāli cannot be inferred from modern Sinhala pronunciation any more than Classical Latin's pronunciation can be inferred from modern Romanian pronunciation.
Quite right! It is from how they are pronounced by modern Englishmen —not Romanians— that we learn both the correct pronunciation of Classical Latin words, and, more importantly, their deeper and hidden meanings. :jumping:

And so for a little diversion, let’s take a look at what happens when we do with English and Latin what Waharakaist philology does with Sinhala and Pali...

1. The possessive plural of ‘octopus’ is octopuses’.
2. Octopuses’ ends in es’.
3. ‘Essene’ begins with es.
4. If in a single language two syllables of two different words happen to be spelled the same, then they must mean the same.
5. Therefore there is a connection between Essenes and octopuses.
6. The deeper meaning of Latin words can be discerned by listening to how they are pronounced by modern Englishmen.
7. Though the Romans pronounced the -seni in Esseni as ‘saynee’, Englishmen have preserved the word’s deeper/hidden meaning by spelling the word Essene and pronouncing the -sene part as ‘seen’.
8. Therefore its deeper meaning is ‘seen’.
9. Therefore the Essenes were Jewish ascetics who had visions of octopuses.

With the exception of items #4 and #6, each premise and conclusion in this jaw-droppingly absurd syllogism merely replicates one or another of the kinds of philological “reasoning” found on the Pure Dhamma website. Premises #4 and #6 serve merely to make the argument a little more transparent than the Waharakaist ones, by stating explicitly what the Pure Dhamma site-owner just quietly and naïvely assumes to be the case with Sinhala and Pali.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:16 am

Hi Bhante
You are as humorous as Sri Lankans.
If you listen to the Sri Lankans making jokes about this issue you will be :rofl:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:35 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:36 pm
Lal wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:46 pm
When the European scholars started translating the Tipitaka, they had to come to an agreement on how to write certain words with the English alphabet. They decided to make, for example, “th” sound with just “t” just to keep the length of words shorter.
That looks like "fake news" to me. Can you point us to some document or scholarly article where this agreement is reached? And can you explain why they haven't realised their mistake and haven't subsequently rectified it?
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:02 pm
Lal wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:27 am
You don’t need “scholarly articles” to know how words sound in Sinhala. Ask anyone who speaks Sinhala how these words are pronounced:
My question is about the evidence for the claim that
I too see that the reply from Lal doesn't answer the question asked. No evidence for the claim has been provided. Lal himself appears to be making fake news.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

jagodage
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by jagodage » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:05 am

Dear Friends

First I wish to address Dhamma friend as Upaska Lal.

The reason being I have learn, hereto unknown Dhamma concepts by reading his Pure Dhamma site.I wish to pass merit gain to Upaska Lal in paying gratitude for lighting the lamp in my dark world.

Lord Buddha has pronounce in Dhammakpawatwana Sutrya that to the extent that I have not understand Four Noble Truth with Sathya Ghana(1),Kruthaya Ghana(2) and Kruth Ghana(3) I will not declare that I have attended The Buddhahood. When Lord realize the Four Noble Truth with above three,then only He declare that He has attained Buddhahood.

So we can develop our Sathya Ghana by paticipating in forum and other ways. We have to apply them to our daily life as well.And observe how far it is true.The Kruth Ghana part has to verify through higher Pragna.If any concept does not satisfy these three it has to be discarded.
My opinion for those who cannot see what Upaska trying to convey is look at his Dhamma explanation with Upekka.This quality Upekka can be at different levels.As mention in Dhamma worshiping verse(Swakkato bagawtha Dhamma....) Pachchtum veditabbo Vinno hethi.

The understanding of Dhamma my be at different levels.Therefore there may be difference of opinion. As a Swan was capble to extract milk from oil, one must be able to discard Adhamma absorbing Dhamma.
Leave all Adhamma that Upasaka Lal explain take only Dhamma part he try to convey.

Once the Lord Budddha was ask why he didn't try to save Devadatta getting to Niraya. He said that he tried to find out at least a Kusala kamma done in form of horse hare in his past he would have save Dewadatta.Likewise discuss only part that will make one proceed in escaping Sansara.

Please test those deep Dhamma concepts what he quote in your meditation instead of arguing.

Of course constructive criticism will enhance Dhamma vichaya Bogganga.It is helpful to remind Kalama Sutrya in addition.

With Metta
Jagodage

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Some people do not ever want to listen to explanations, Jagodage.

I know that it is unlikely that they will ever listen (I hope at least some of them will do). But I want to show others that what they are pretending to know is not Buddha Dhamma, the deeper aspects of Buddha Dhamma. I want to illustrate to others that Buddha Dhamma has much more depth, is totally self-consistent within the Tipitaka, and that the benefits can be experienced in this life.

My last post was mainly on how Pali words were written with the English alphabet (even before addressing the translations, that also need to be understood). No one has addressed that.

In addition, I challenge them to interpret the verses that I also analyzed in that post:

Specifically: " From DN 12 (Maha Parinibbana Sutta), in the 9. Anāvattidhammasambodhiparāyaṇa section: "තස්ස කා ගති, ඛෝ අභිසම්පරායෝ" written in English as“tassa kā gati, ko abhisamparāyo?”

AND, Dhammapada verse 160:
“Attā hi attanō nāthō
kō hi nāthō parō siyā
attanā hi sudanténa
nātham labhati dullabham”

Please provide a detailed explanation as I did, repeating each word that I explained. Specifically the words: gati, Attā, attanō, nāthō. That would be better than making useless comments that are totally irrelevant. They always try to deviate the focus from the questions that they ARE UNABLE to answer.

Here is another important point for contemplation:

Even up to the 20th century, the whole Tipitaka was written on specially prepared ola (palm) leaves. They deteriorate over 100 years or so and needed to be re-written. Even though that was a very labor-intensive process (there are about 60 large volumes in the modern printed version of the Tipitaka), it served another important purpose:

Sinhala language (both spoken and written) changed over the past 2000 years. The need to re-write the Tipitaka every 100 or so years made sure that the changes in Sinhala script was taken into account.

The following video gives an idea about how those leaves were prepared and what tools were used to write with:


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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:05 pm

Lal wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:00 pm
Some people do not ever want to listen to explanations, Jagodage.

I know that it is unlikely that they will ever listen (I hope at least some of them will do). But I want to show others that what they are pretending to know is not Buddha Dhamma, the deeper aspects of Buddha Dhamma. I want to illustrate to others that Buddha Dhamma has much more depth, is totally self-consistent within the Tipitaka, and that the benefits can be experienced in this life.

My last post was mainly on how Pali words were written with the English alphabet (even before addressing the translations, that also need to be understood). No one has addressed that.
People have addressed your fake linguistic theories multiple times. It is you who think you have never been refuted. Clearly Dunning-Kruger at work.

What is the TOS with regards to repeatedly proliferating misinformation with little regards to how one is corrected?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:17 pm

jagodage wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:05 am
constructive criticism
Here you go
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:01 pm
Lal wrote:It just happens that I just published this post explaining why Nibbana is Atta:
This is a schoolboy error caused by incorrect transliteration of the Pāḷi.
Lal wrote:“..katamo ca bhikkhave, anattö? panatipatö, adinnädänaṃ, kämesu­miccha­cärö, musävädö, pisuṇä väcä, parusä vacä, samphappaläpö, abhijjhä, vyäpädö, micchädiṭṭhi – ayam vuccati, bhikkhave, anattö..”
The Attha Sutta deals with what is of benefit, and what is not, i.e. what is harmful. This has nothing at all to with not-self (anatta).
4. Atthasuttaṃ

137. “Atthañca vo, bhikkhave, desessāmi anatthañca. Taṃ suṇātha … … Katamo ca, bhikkhave, anattho? Micchādiṭṭhi … … Micchāvimutti — ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, anattho. Katamo ca, bhikkhave, attho? Sammādiṭṭhi … … Sammāvimutti — ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, attho”ti. Catutthaṃ.

Monks, I will teach you about what is of benefit and what is not of benefit. Please listen attentively ...
What, monks, is of no benefit? Wrong View ... Wrong Liberation — this, monks, I call of no benefit. And what, monks, is of benefit? Right View .. Right Liberation. — This, monks, I call of benefit.
Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:18 pm
Hi Rajitha,

I am posting my reply here as it's not really relevant to Binocular's "Courage in the Case of Versatility" thread.
Dhammanando wrote: My allotted internet time for today is almost up. I may return to the subject tomorrow, but I don’t promise.
So now I’ll return to the subject, though not in the way that you request. Instead I propose to take a close look at just one randomly selected page from the Pure Dhamma website. (Actually I started out by randomly selecting *three* pages, intending to comment on all of them, but there were so many mistakes on just the first one that I've decided to call it a day).

The page in question purports to be about the meaning of the saṃ part of the word saṃsāra and is found in a section of the website ominously entitled “Key Dhamma Concepts that have Been Hidden”. :spy:

The article opens with the exciting revelation of a Pali term whose meaning has allegedly been "hidden for thousands of years" but has now been rediscovered.
:woohoo:
Pure Dhamma wrote:1. A key word, the meaning of which has been hidden for thousands of years, is “san” (pronounced like son).
Sad to say, saṃ is actually one of the most common prefixes in Pali and Sanskrit, as well as in many modern Indian languages. There is no mystery to the word at all. Functionally it’s simply the Indic equivalent of the Latin “com-”. Its range of meanings in both Pali and Sanskrit is well-known and well-documented and at no time has its meaning been “hidden”.

However, by asserting that the meaning of some key Pali term has been hidden or lost or misunderstood by lesser mortals, messianic revisionist Theravadins grant themselves the luxury of assigning whatever new meaning they like to it...
Pure Dhamma wrote:“San’ is basically the term for “good and bad things we acquire” while we exist anywhere in the 31 realms; see, “The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma“.
Not according to the texts, which consistently explain saṃ in the noun saṃsāra and in the verb saṃsarati as being a term used in the sense of abbocchinnaṃ, an adverb meaning ‘continuously’ or ‘without interruption’. For example:
  • Khandhānañ’ ca paṭipāṭi, dhātu-āyatanāna ca,
    Abbocchinnaṃ vattamānā, saṃsāro’ ti pavuccatī ti.


    The process of the aggregates, elements and bases,
    Proceeding without interruption is called ‘saṃsāra’.
    (DA. ii. 496)
Pure Dhamma wrote:2. There is also a reason for calling what we “pile up” as “san“. In Pali and Sinhala, the word for numbers is “sankhyä“, and sankhyä = “san” + “khyä“, meaning (add &multiply) + (subtract & divide), i.e., sankhya is what is used for addition, multiplication, subtraction, and division. From this, “san” gives the idea of “piling up” (addition and multiplication); “khyä” gives the idea of “removal” (subtraction and division).

Therefore “san” is used to indicate things we do in the sansaric journey; see below for examples.
It’s correct that the saṃ- in saṃsāra and the saṅ- in saṅkhyā are one and the same verbal prefix. But from their sharing of the same prefix it doesn’t follow that the meaning of saṃsāra can be derived from the meaning of saṅkhyā.

We wouldn’t say, for example, that the meaning of ‘transport’ can be inferred from the meaning of ‘transgender’, or that the meaning of ‘confetti’ can shed light on the meaning of ‘community’ just because the two items in each pair happen to share the same Latin prefixes.
Pure Dhamma wrote:“Khyä” or “Khaya” is used to indicate removal. Nibbana is attained via removal of defilements (raga, dosa, moha), and thus Nibbana is “ragakkhaya“, “dosakkhaya“, and “mohakkhaya“.
Etymologically there is no connection between the -khyā in saṅkhyā and the khaya in rāgakkhaya. One is derived from the verb saṅkhāyati (to count or calculate) and the other from the verb khayati (to wither). The disparateness of the two can be seen even more starkly in Sanskrit, where their respective cognates are saṅkhāyati and kṣinoti.

Like ‘dick’ and ‘dyke’ or ‘blob’ and ‘bulb’, khaya and khyā are unrelated words that just happen to share two consonants.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Just by knowing this, it is possible to understand the roots of many common words, such as sankhara, sansara, sanna, samma, etc. Let us analyze some of these words.
The writer seems to be confusing roots (dhātu) and prefixes (upasagga). Saṅkhāra, saṃsāra, and saññā all share the prefix saṃ. But their roots — and it is these, not the prefixes that are the primary source of a Pali word’s meaning — are √khar (= Skt. kṛ), √sar (= sṛ), and √ñā (= jñā) respectively.

As for sammā, this is an indeclinable particle (nipāta) and as such has no verbal root and no relationship whatever with the three nouns.
Pure Dhamma wrote:4. Another important term “samma” which comes from “san” + “mä“, which means “to become free of san“. For example:

“Mä hoti jati, jati“, means “may I be free of repeated birth”.
The word is a prohibitive particle (“Don’t!” Let it not!”). It’s also an indeclinable, which means it’s neither reducible nor modifiable nor combinable with other words. Indeclinables are to Pali philology what inert gases are to chemistry. As such it has no more to do with the sound in sammā than it does with the sound in Māra or marble or marzipan or Margate or Marlene Dietrich. It just happens to sound the same.
Pure Dhamma wrote:5. Knowing the correct meaning of such terms, leads to clear understanding of many terms:
Indeed. And like so many things in this world, the correct meaning is not arrived at merely by wishing it were so.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Sansära (or samsara) = san + sära (meaning fruitful) = perception that “san” are good, fruitful. Thus one continues in the long rebirth process with the wrong perception that it is fruitful.
The sāra in saṃsāra doesn’t mean fruitful. In the Suttas the Buddha connects the noun saṃsāra with the verb saṃsarati. This verb’s primary meaning is to repeatedly come (or go) somewhere or to wander or move about continuously. From this we get the secondary meaning, to transmigrate.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Sammä = san + mä (meaning eliminate) = eliminate or route out “san”. Thus Samma Ditthi is routing out the wrong views that keeps one bound to sansara.
No, this is both etymologically wrong and factually wrong as to what sammādiṭṭhi is. What the writer is describing is diṭṭhujukamma, the action of straightening of one’s views. If one is successful at this then sammādiṭṭhi is the result.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Sandittiko = san + ditthi (meaning vision) = ability to see “san”; one becomes sanditthiko at the Sotapanna stage. Most texts define sandittiko with inconsistent words like, self-evident, immediately apparent, visible here and now, etc.
There are two traditional etymologies for sandiṭṭhiko, one of which gives rise to the translation “to be seen by oneself” and the other to translations like “self-evident”. But regardless of which of these one prefers, the term is one of the special qualities of the Dhamma, not of any person. And so to speak of somebody “becoming” sandiṭṭhiko at the sotāpanna stage is nonsensical.
Pure Dhamma wrote:6. A nice example to illustrate the significance of “san”, is to examine the verse that Ven. Assaji delivered to Upatissa (the lay name of Ven. Sariputta, who was a chief disciple of the Buddha):

“Ye dhamma hetu pabbava, te san hetun Thathagatho aha, Te san ca yo nirodho, evan vadi maha Samano”

Te = three, hetu = cause, nirodha = nir+uda = stop from arising

The translation is now crystal clear:

“All dhamma (in this world) arise due to causes arising from the three “san”s: raga, dosa, moha. The Buddha has shown how to eliminate those “san”s and thus stop dhamma from arising”
This part is the clearest evidence so far that the author is attempting to explain points of Pali without having learned anything of the language at all. The word tesaṃ is simply the demonstrative pronoun te (‘this’, ‘that’) in the genitive plural case. It means “of these”, “of those”. The saṃ part is an inflectional ending (vibhatti). It has absolutely nothing to do with the prefix saṃ in saṃsāra.
Pure Dhamma wrote:7. [...]

Each Pali word is packed with lot of information, and thus commentaries were written to expound the meaning of important Pali words.

A good example is the key Pali word “anicca“. In Sanskrit it is “anitya“, and this is what normally translated to English as “impermanence”. But the actual meaning of anicca is very clear in Sinhala: The Pali word “icca” (pronounced “ichcha”) is the same in Sinhala, with the idea of “this is what I like”. Thus anicca has the meaning “cannot keep it the way I like”.
The nicca in anicca has nothing to do with the adjective iccha (wishing) or the noun icchā (a wish) or the verb icchati (to wish).

The colloquial Sinhala pronunciation of it is actually a mispronunciation when judged by the phonetic descriptions in the ancient Pali grammars. When Sri Lankans pronounce Pali words their commonest mistake is to make aspirated consonants into non-aspirates and non-aspirated consonants into aspirates. This can be seen in the unorthodox romanization system used at the Pure Dhamma site:

gathi instead of gati
hethu-pala instead of hetu-phala.
micca-ditthi instead of micchā-diṭṭhi
satipattana instead of satipaṭṭhāna
Etc., etc.

By contrast, this is the international standard used by indologists for over a century:
  • ක ඛ ග ඝ ඞ
    ka, kha, ga, gha, ṅa

    ච ඡ ජ ඣ ඤ
    ca, cha, ja, jha, ña

    ට ඨ ඩ ඪ ණ
    ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa

    ත ථ ද ධ න
    ta, tha, da, dha, na

    ප ඵ බ භ ම
    pa, pha, ba, bha, ma

    ය ර ල ව ස හ ළ ං
    ya, ra, la, va, sa, ha, ḷa, ṃ

Conclusion

The Pure Dhamma website offers a variety of revisionist readings of the Pali Suttas based upon the site-owner’s (or his guru’s) claimed re-discovery of supposed hidden meanings of key Pali terms.
These proposed hidden meanings, when not presented merely as bald assertions, are defended by resort to Pali philological analysis.
But since the site-owner is demonstrably incompetent in both Indic philology in general and Pali in particular his arguments are undeserving of credence. Rather than leading to the true understanding of the Dhamma via the revelation of higher (but long-concealed) meanings, they lead only to baloney.
I especially like this part;
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:48 pm
Dhammanando wrote:Conclusion

The Pure Dhamma website offers a variety of revisionist readings of the Pali Suttas based upon the site-owner’s (or his guru’s) claimed re-discovery of supposed hidden meanings of key Pali terms.

These proposed hidden meanings, when not presented merely as bald assertions, are defended by resort to Pali philological analysis. But since the site-owner is demonstrably incompetent in both Indic philology in general and Pali in particular his arguments are undeserving of credence. Rather than leading to the true understanding of the Dhamma via the revelation of higher (but long-concealed) meanings, they lead only to baloney.
Spot-on (as long as by "baloney" you don't mean "Large smooth-textured smoked sausage of beef and veal and pork.") With that, I will bow out of any further discussion about pure dhamma.net It is just a net of views, a trap for the unwary, and it is too time-consuming to correct every error.

I hope the authors will listen to the two of us and take down this website until they are more qualified to write something that is truly helpful to revive the true Dhamma.
I hope the authors will listen to the two of us and take down this website until they are more qualified to write something that is truly helpful to revive the true Dhamma.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

whynotme
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by whynotme » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:19 pm

@Lai, you said everything in your article is based on the Tipitaka.

You described the process the gandhabba come from this life to next life. So please show where is this information in the Tipitaka?

And please stop ignoring this question.

Please behave like a grown man and answer the question.
Please stop following me

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