The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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Ryan95227
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Ryan95227 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm

budo wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:39 am
Lal wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:12 pm
@Sam Vara: Sorry. I did not see your PM earlier.

Sam Vara said:
Everything you post is either promoting or defending Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero.
That is not correct. Everything I post is either promoting or defending Buddha Dhamma. I am just grateful to Waharaka Thero for pointing me in the right direction. Of course, I have not found anything wrong with what Waharaka Thero had said in his desanas when compared to Tipitaka. He just pointed out some errors in the interpretation of several key Pali words. Each person can come to his/her own conclusions by examining the analysis below (hopefully with an open mind).

Yes. It is good to hear different opinions from everyone. But I believe this is not a philosophy forum, where it may not be possible to converge on a “final truth”. It is possible to converge on a “final truth” in Buddha Dhamma, and that should be the goal.
- Now, that “final truth” may not be agreed upon by ALL. Some people will never be able to understand the deep Dhamma. Even during the time of Buddha there were many who could not grasp it, even if they listened to the Buddha many, many times.
- Even though we may not be able to agree on the “final truth”, there should be at least some baseline standards. This is what I have been trying to get across.

Let me go through my logic for the last time.

We only have the Tipitaka as the only reliable source of Buddha’s teachings. While it is possible that some parts could have changed over the years, there is a way to check that: Look for inconsistencies within the Tipitaka.
-I have found none so far. If anyone has found something inconsistent, please let me know.
- This is how modern science works too. Until a discrepancy is found, we can just use the Tipitaka as it is. No need to discuss various commentaries by many, which I have also shown to be contradictory the Tipitaka.

Now, the next step is to really do a thorough analysis of the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. It was the first instance of the Buddha explaining his “previously unknown Dhamma, that is hard to comprehend”.
-We know that the five ascetics attained the Sotapanna stage with that. So, enough material is embedded in the summary that we call Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta, for one to get to the Sotapanna stage. This sutta is able to provide the fundamental aspects of Buddha Dhamma.
-I have of course not done a thorough analysis of the sutta. That will take a whole book.

However, there are certain key features we can extract from it, as I pointed out in an earlier post. Those are the following:

After explaining the four Noble Truths, the Buddha says in the middle of the sutta: "Ñāṇañca pana me dassanaṃ udapādi: ‘akuppā me vimutti, ayamantimā jāti, natthi dāni punabbhavo’”ti."

Translated: "The knowledge and vision arose in me: ‘unshakable is the liberation of my mind. This is my last birth. There is no more renewed existence.’”
- That statement says the outcome of the discovery of that knowledge. The solution to future suffering. It is the ending of the rebirth process.
- So, my point is that this statement by itself explains that: (i) the Buddha was focused on stopping suffering in future lives (some of which in lower realms could be unimaginably harsh). (ii) there is no "safe" rebirth anywhere in this world, whether it is a human, deva, or a brahma realm.

I will just reproduce a previous post on more on the sutta:

Continuing from the previous post on the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta:

1. Now, let us look at how the Buddha summarized the First Noble Truth about suffering in that sutta.

Idam kho pana, bhikkhave, dukkham ariyasaccam:

jātipi dukkhā, jarāpi dukkhā, byādhipi dukkho, maraṇampi dukkhāṃ, appiyehi sampayogo dukkho, piyehi vippayogo dukkho, yampicchaṃ na labhati tampi dukkhāṃ—saṃkhittena pañcu­pādā­nak­khan­dhā dukkhā.


Translated: Bhikkhus, What is the Noble Truth of Suffering?

"Birth is suffering, getting old is suffering, getting sick is suffering, dying is suffering. Having to associate with things that one does not like is suffering and having to separate from those things one likes is suffering. If one does not get what one likes, that is suffering - Doing worldly activities (samkittena) to get all those things one craves for (pancupadanakkhandha) is suffering.

There are four sections in that verse. I have highlighted alternating sections to make it clear.

2. The first part in bold indicates what we consider to be forms of suffering: Birth, getting old, getting sick, and dying.

- We may not remember, but birth is a traumatic event, just like the dying moment. Coming out of the birth canal is a traumatic event for both the mother and the baby.
- We do not like to experience those four things. If we have to experience them, that is suffering.
- What we WOULD LIKE is to stay young, not get old, not get sick, and not to die ever. If we can have those conditions fulfilled we will be forever happy.

3. That is what the second part (not in bold) says.

- If we can be born instantaneously at a young age (say, 15 to 25 years), and stay at that age without getting old or sick and never die, that is what we would like. But no matter how much we would like to associated with such a life, we will NEVER get it.
- Instead we have to suffer at birth, when getting old, when getting sick, and finally when dying. There is no way to dissociate from those four things that we do not like.
- But that is not the end of it. We will keep doing this over and over in the rebirth cycle. Furthermore, things can get much worse in the lowest four realms, including the animal realm.
- This is why the Buddha stated that the culmination of all his efforts to the ending of the suffering in the rebirth process, when stated "this would be my last birth": No more suffering!

4. Both those parts are combined in to one succinct statement in the third part: "Yampiccam nalabhati tampi dukkham".

"Yampiccam nalabhati tampi dukkham" is actually a shortened version of the verse (that rhymes).
The full sentence is "Yam pi iccam na labhati tam pi dukkham".

- "Yam pi iccam" means "whatever is craved for". "Na labhati" means "not getting". "tam pi dukkham" means "that leads to suffering".
- Therefore, that verse simply says: “If one does not get what one craves or likes, that leads to suffering”.
- This is a more general statement, and applies in any situation. The more one craves something, the more suffering one will endure at the end. But this requires a lot of discussion.

5. "Yampiccam nalabhati tampi dukkham" is the most important verse in the first sutta delivered by the Buddha, Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. It provides the key to understanding the Buddha's message, and led to attaining of the Sotapanna stage by the five ascetics.

- It should be noted that icca and iccha (ඉච්ච and ඉච්ඡ in Sinhala) are used interchangeably in the Tipitaka under different suttas. The word “iccha” with the emphasis on the last syllable is used to indicated “strong icca” or “strong attachment”.
- Not getting what one desires or craves is the opposite of "icca" or "na icca" or "anicca". This is the same way that "na ā­gami" becomes "Anā­gā­mi". These are Pali sandhi rules.
- The intrinsic nature of this world is "anicca", i.e., we will never get what we crave for, and thus at the end (at least at death) we will leave all this behind and suffer, that is dukkha.

6. As you can see, one single verse itself takes a lot of explaining. I just don't have time to go into more detail. I hope that at least some people will get the basic idea.

- The last part of the verse, "saṃkhittena pañcu­pādā­nak­khan­dhā dukkhā" will take much more explaining. One needs to understand the five khandhas (rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana) first, in order to even begin to understand this part.
- Note that upadana is related closely to craving. Upadana means "pulling closer in one's mind due to craving".
- Until one sees this anicca, dukkha, anatta nature of this world, one will be trapped in the suffering-filled rebirth process.

7. The other key point: Translating some key verses word-by-word can lead to bad unintended consequences. This is because many key Pali words CANNOT be translated as one English word.

- The five ascetics were able to attain the Sotapanna stage by understanding the detailed description of the material embedded in this sutta. That holds true today.
- By the way, there is nothing in this sutta that says impermanence leads to suffering. The key words are icca and anicca.
- Anicca is not the same as Sanskrit "anitya" (which does mean impermanence), which in Pali is "aniyata" or "addhuvan". None of those three words appear in this sutta. In fact, I don't think the word "anicca" appears directly in this sutta either; of course, it appears in many other suttas in the same context. But the word "anitya" does not appear in a single sutta in the Tipitaka; "aniyata" and "addhuvan" appear in a few suttas to actually indicate impermanence in other contexts. For example, "jeevitam aniyatam, maranam niyatam".
- The concept is explained with the word "icca" (craving) in this sutta, as I explained above.
That is the end of that discussion.

I have also pointed out that there is a great harm in translating suttas word-by-word. This is because key Pali words like anicca, vinnana, sanna, DO NOT have corresponding SINGLE English words. It is better to understand their meanings and just use the same words.

Until these basic premises are understood, this forum will appear to be more like a philosophy forum, or at best a forum on “Secular Buddhism”. There is nothing wrong with that. There are those who declare openly that they do not believe in rebirth, and thus do not believe that Nibbana means stopping the rebirth process. They call themselves “Secular Buddhists”. I think that is a more honest approach. In fact, that is the way one should initially approach Buddha Dhamma. The Buddha himself explained, in the Maha Cattarisaka sutta, that there are two eightfold paths: the mundane eightfold path where one lives a moral life and gets rid of the 10 types of mica ditthi. Then one gets on the lokottara path, when one is able to start comprehending deeper aspects, and make an effort to attain Nibbana (release from future suffering in the rebirth process).

Anyway, that is what I have to say. There is no need to respond or me to rebut. I have stated these enough times. No point in going through it again.

May everyone find the true Dhamma and attain Nibbana!
This post is better because there is less noise (shaming language) and more signal (axioms). Everything you wrote about this forum and secular Buddhism is unnecessary and a waste of time. That's the true problem with Wrong Speech, you are covering gems with feces and people don't want to wade through feces to get to the gems.

In short, you could have written that anicca means strong attachment and not impermanence, due to mistranslation. This would have been more helpful and less time consuming to read than wading through ad hominems and strawman fallacies. Just get to the point!

People who know they are wrong tend to have a lot more noise than signal so that people don't disprove them right away, as their ego is heavily invested into those axioms. It would be a shame if your theories were actually true and you've kept them hidden out of fear.

Your website also has similar fluff, I remember having to open several tabs in the middle of articles that would send me to other articles which had more links to other articles and I would end up with 30 open tabs of half read articles.

Your dhamma may be valuable, but the way you organize your communication is very poor. Better to write a linear book that starts with the basics and builds its way up without sending the reader off on tangents to other non-linear chapters or books.

Keep it linear and keep it clean.
According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.

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budo
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by budo » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm

According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
Sounds interesting.

Do you have a name of this student? Maybe I can understand Ven Thero's interpretation better through him.

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Sam Vara
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:42 pm

budo wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:45 pm
Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm

According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
Sounds interesting.

Do you have a name of this student? Maybe I can understand Ven Thero's interpretation better through him.
I thought it sounded interesting, too; the most interesting bit of the Ven Thero's teachings. Then I read this by the Venerable Dhammanando, on p.3 of this thread:
The nicca in anicca has nothing to do with the adjective iccha (wishing) or the noun icchā (a wish) or the verb icchati (to wish).

The colloquial Sinhala pronunciation of it is actually a mispronunciation when judged by the phonetic descriptions in the ancient Pali grammars. When Sri Lankans pronounce Pali words their commonest mistake is to make aspirated consonants into non-aspirates and non-aspirated consonants into aspirates. This can be seen in the unorthodox romanization system used at the Pure Dhamma site:

gathi instead of gati
hethu-pala instead of hetu-phala.
micca-ditthi instead of micchā-diṭṭhi
satipattana instead of satipaṭṭhāna
Etc., etc.

By contrast, this is the international standard used by indologists for over a century:
ක ඛ ග ඝ ඞ
ka, kha, ga, gha, ṅa

ච ඡ ජ ඣ ඤ
ca, cha, ja, jha, ña

ට ඨ ඩ ඪ ණ
ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa

ත ථ ද ධ න
ta, tha, da, dha, na

ප ඵ බ භ ම
pa, pha, ba, bha, ma

ය ර ල ව ස හ ළ ං
ya, ra, la, va, sa, ha, ḷa, ṃ

Conclusion

The Pure Dhamma website offers a variety of revisionist readings of the Pali Suttas based upon the site-owner’s (or his guru’s) claimed re-discovery of supposed hidden meanings of key Pali terms.
These proposed hidden meanings, when not presented merely as bald assertions, are defended by resort to Pali philological analysis.
But since the site-owner is demonstrably incompetent in both Indic philology in general and Pali in particular his arguments are undeserving of credence. Rather than leading to the true understanding of the Dhamma via the revelation of higher (but long-concealed) meanings, they lead only to baloney.
His whole post is worth reading (not least because my selection of the "anicca" bit suggests that the "baloney" is based on that alone, which is not the case) and I would also urge you to read the posts by Bhikkhu Pesala as well, before delving any deeper. That may save you a lot of wasted time.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by budo » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:42 pm

His whole post is worth reading (not least because my selection of the "anicca" bit suggests that the "baloney" is based on that alone, which is not the case) and I would also urge you to read the posts by Bhikkhu Pesala as well, before delving any deeper. That may save you a lot of wasted time.
Hmm ok, I usually like to give people the benefit of doubt, but this whole sinhalese linguistic issue seems like pretty comprehensive stuff. Regardless, I always prioritize meditation so I can evaluate things for myself, and I'm not too sure what the meditation technique of Ven. Thero is, if he claims that anapanasati is not breath meditation, then what IS his meditation technique?

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 pm

budo wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:33 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:42 pm

His whole post is worth reading (not least because my selection of the "anicca" bit suggests that the "baloney" is based on that alone, which is not the case) and I would also urge you to read the posts by Bhikkhu Pesala as well, before delving any deeper. That may save you a lot of wasted time.
Hmm ok, I usually like to give people the benefit of doubt, but this whole sinhalese linguistic issue seems like pretty comprehensive stuff. Regardless, I always prioritize meditation so I can evaluate things for myself, and I'm not too sure what the meditation technique of Ven. Thero is, if he claims that anapanasati is not breath meditation, then what IS his meditation technique?
That I don't know. Lal might be able to answer that one, and you will see from the first part of this enormous thread that SarathW watched a lot of the Sinhala videos, so he might be able to help.

Ryan95227
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Ryan95227 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:45 pm

budo wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:45 pm
Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm

According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
Sounds interesting.

Do you have a name of this student? Maybe I can understand Ven Thero's interpretation better through him.
some of his discourse

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by freedom » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:17 am

Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm
According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
I am wondering if we should see our beloved wife, husband, children, father, mother,... as worthless rock or rubbish material? or we would see them as impermanence?
One should not be negligent of discernment, should guard the truth, be devoted to relinquishment, and train only for calm - MN 140.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:45 am

freedom wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:17 am
Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm
According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
I am wondering if we should see our beloved wife, husband, children, father, mother,... as worthless rock or rubbish material? or we would see them as impermanence?
you can contemplate that they are suffering just like yourself, born of ignorance, bound to becoming and are leaping on in pursuit of happiness in whatever way they can conceive of it to their best ability and for avoidance of stress, if they are not training to realize the Dhamma then they are constantly in pursuit of a lesser evil, unable to conceive of anything ultimately secure and reliable, of anything not subject to destruction, they are subjected to birth, sickness and old age, much like yourself, they are heirs to their verbal, bodily and mental conduct, bullied into submission as they constantly try to escape the Mara's command while being herded to death. I also think of them as a field of merit in the sense that they provide an opportunity for wholesomeness, compassion, sympathy etc.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:22 am

Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm
According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
I asked from a Sinhala friend and he said, misinterpreting the Sinhala word “අනිත්‍ය” (Sinhala: anithya = Pali: anicca = impermanent) as “අතෘප්තකර” (Sinhala: atruptakara = Pali: atappiya = insatiable) is it self pure rubbish. And, that is exactly what Waharaka Thero and his students been doing while claiming they found the pure Dhamma.

He further wrote:
I noticed a certain interesting cyclic pattern in the modern lay Buddhist devotion here: they go through cycles, and the monk or movement “fashionable” at the time changes every few years. Mahamevna movement seems to have gone past its peak, and so seems to be Ven. Rajagiriye Ariyanana.

The “in” thing at the moment for urban middle-class Sri Lankan Buddhists seems to be Ven. Walasmulle Abhaya of “Nirapekshathwaye Maga” (who seems to build upon the Waharaka interpretation). There’s a lot of activity on local social media circles about this organisation and its teachings, which I personally consider to be quite misleading and dangerous. I found it rather amusing to watch a few dhamma talks by a disciple nun of Ven. Abhaya, who is supposedly an arahant (Ven. Malabe Dhammavimutta).

Regardless of the promotional activities by the followers, already many considering Wahraka to be a wrong viewed fake arahant. His student, another fake arahant, Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara also managed to even get a prohibition on his publications by a court order for his view that the Buddha was born in Sri Lanka and all the historical places that related to the historical Buddha are actually in various parts of Sri Lanka. Walasmulle Abhaya was expelled (revoking the official bhikkhu registration with the Ministry) by his sect for spreading his wrong views. When Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara started emphasizing the story about the Buddha being born in Sri Lanka, Ven. Waharaka distanced himself a bit. I got these details from a friend who had associated with Ven. Waharaka. Personally I’m very skeptical about their entire group.
Thang’s post also related.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Ryan95227
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Ryan95227 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:57 am

StormBorn wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:22 am
Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm
According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
I asked from a Sinhala friend and he said, misinterpreting the Sinhala word “අනිත්‍ය” (Sinhala: anithya = Pali: anicca = impermanent) as “අතෘප්තකර” (Sinhala: atruptakara = Pali: atappiya = insatiable) is it self pure rubbish. And, that is exactly what Waharaka Thero and his students been doing while claiming they found the pure Dhamma.

He further wrote:
I noticed a certain interesting cyclic pattern in the modern lay Buddhist devotion here: they go through cycles, and the monk or movement “fashionable” at the time changes every few years. Mahamevna movement seems to have gone past its peak, and so seems to be Ven. Rajagiriye Ariyanana.

The “in” thing at the moment for urban middle-class Sri Lankan Buddhists seems to be Ven. Walasmulle Abhaya of “Nirapekshathwaye Maga” (who seems to build upon the Waharaka interpretation). There’s a lot of activity on local social media circles about this organisation and its teachings, which I personally consider to be quite misleading and dangerous. I found it rather amusing to watch a few dhamma talks by a disciple nun of Ven. Abhaya, who is supposedly an arahant (Ven. Malabe Dhammavimutta).

Regardless of the promotional activities by the followers, already many considering Wahraka to be a wrong viewed fake arahant. His student, another fake arahant, Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara also managed to even get a prohibition on his publications by a court order for his view that the Buddha was born in Sri Lanka and all the historical places that related to the historical Buddha are actually in various parts of Sri Lanka. Walasmulle Abhaya was expelled (revoking the official bhikkhu registration with the Ministry) by his sect for spreading his wrong views. When Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara started emphasizing the story about the Buddha being born in Sri Lanka, Ven. Waharaka distanced himself a bit. I got these details from a friend who had associated with Ven. Waharaka. Personally I’m very skeptical about their entire group.
Thang’s post also related.
That is why some of his followers seem to believe that you can actually levitate and travel through 31 realms once you attain arahantship or go into 4th jhana. I found it very suspicious.

Ryan95227
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Ryan95227 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:06 am

StormBorn wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:22 am
Ryan95227 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm
According to student of Ven Thero who is also a monk, he defined anicca as "insatiablity" Meaning that our 6 senses can never be satiated. We are ignorant of the nature of anicca (insatiability) and we think there is some satisfaction and gratification in wordly objects in our world thus we become lustfully, hatefully, delusionally attached to these objects that make us ultimately suffer. Lustfully, hatefully, and delusionally, we become attached to objects through our 6 senses but they can never be saitated BECAUSE we basically attaching to a worthless rock or rubbish material. How can we expect happiness to be there? So in essence he talks about impermanence but delves more into it to help make sense of anicca. I like the definition given by him. Idk why Lal never mentions "insatiability even though his student says it as such in direct and simple manner.
I asked from a Sinhala friend and he said, misinterpreting the Sinhala word “අනිත්‍ය” (Sinhala: anithya = Pali: anicca = impermanent) as “අතෘප්තකර” (Sinhala: atruptakara = Pali: atappiya = insatiable) is it self pure rubbish. And, that is exactly what Waharaka Thero and his students been doing while claiming they found the pure Dhamma.

He further wrote:
I noticed a certain interesting cyclic pattern in the modern lay Buddhist devotion here: they go through cycles, and the monk or movement “fashionable” at the time changes every few years. Mahamevna movement seems to have gone past its peak, and so seems to be Ven. Rajagiriye Ariyanana.

The “in” thing at the moment for urban middle-class Sri Lankan Buddhists seems to be Ven. Walasmulle Abhaya of “Nirapekshathwaye Maga” (who seems to build upon the Waharaka interpretation). There’s a lot of activity on local social media circles about this organisation and its teachings, which I personally consider to be quite misleading and dangerous. I found it rather amusing to watch a few dhamma talks by a disciple nun of Ven. Abhaya, who is supposedly an arahant (Ven. Malabe Dhammavimutta).

Regardless of the promotional activities by the followers, already many considering Wahraka to be a wrong viewed fake arahant. His student, another fake arahant, Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara also managed to even get a prohibition on his publications by a court order for his view that the Buddha was born in Sri Lanka and all the historical places that related to the historical Buddha are actually in various parts of Sri Lanka. Walasmulle Abhaya was expelled (revoking the official bhikkhu registration with the Ministry) by his sect for spreading his wrong views. When Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara started emphasizing the story about the Buddha being born in Sri Lanka, Ven. Waharaka distanced himself a bit. I got these details from a friend who had associated with Ven. Waharaka. Personally I’m very skeptical about their entire group.
Thang’s post also related.
also the thing is even though it seems rubbish, their work on satipatthana and alternative definition of anicca seems to have helped me out quiet a lot. It is dissapointing to hear of such stories and statements. Looks like now i have to abandon the vehicle. I still appreciate them for helping me out on the path but i think its time to abandon. Thank you stormborn.

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rightviewftw
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:36 am

Ryan95227 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:06 am
also the thing is even though it seems rubbish, their work on satipatthana and alternative definition of anicca seems to have helped me out quiet a lot. It is dissapointing to hear of such stories and statements. Looks like now i have to abandon the vehicle. I still appreciate them for helping me out on the path but i think its time to abandon. Thank you stormborn.
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day"
here is an alternative on unsatisfactory nature of sense pleasures;
Dhp 186-187;
Not by a shower of gold coins does contentment arise in sensual pleasures. Of little sweetness, and painful[cause pain], are sensual pleasures. Knowing thus, the wise man finds no delight even in heavenly pleasures. The disciple of the Fully Enlightened One delights in the destruction of craving.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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StormBorn
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:54 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:13 am
This practice appears to help attain the first three Arupa Jhana as an Anagami. (I am not sure of the Sutta support for this)
AN 8.63 says, all four jhanas are possible from each brahma viharas.
SarathW wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:22 am
Ven. says that the idea of the meditation is not to stop thinking (eg: Asannasatta).
Thinking (cinteti) and perception (saññā) are not the same.

According to an old Hindu yogi, the purpose of the birth in asaññasatta is to stop “perceiving”. They do that by meditating upon “dhī cittam! dhī cittam!!” which means something like “disgusting mind! disgusting mind!!” The yogi said, by this way they stop the mind perceiving anything. Sounds like similar to nirodha samāpatti.

One stops thinking while in the jhana, but still perceives the mind.
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:52 pm
Ven. says:
Eliminating first three fetter alone will not suffice to become a Sotapanna.
Following Noble Eightfold Path is essential.
“Topsy-turvy!” I would say…

So, there’s a different “path” to remove the first three fetters? Isn’t “the removal of three fetters” another way of saying “becoming a sotapanna?”
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:25 am

Sam Vara said:
budo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:33 pm
Sam Vara wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:42 pm

His whole post is worth reading (not least because my selection of the "anicca" bit suggests that the "baloney" is based on that alone, which is not the case) and I would also urge you to read the posts by Bhikkhu Pesala as well, before delving any deeper. That may save you a lot of wasted time.
Hmm ok, I usually like to give people the benefit of doubt, but this whole sinhalese linguistic issue seems like pretty comprehensive stuff. Regardless, I always prioritize meditation so I can evaluate things for myself, and I'm not too sure what the meditation technique of Ven. Thero is, if he claims that anapanasati is not breath meditation, then what IS his meditation technique?
That I don't know. Lal might be able to answer that one,..
Here is a basic post where it explains what Buddha's Anapanasati is:
What is Ānāpāna?
https://puredhamma.net/bhavana-meditati ... s-anapana/

Direct evidence from the Tipitaka that breath meditation is not Anapana:
Is Ānāpānasati Breath Meditation?
https://puredhamma.net/bhavana-meditati ... editation/

If anyone has serious questions about those two posts, they can refer to the post/bullet number and ask a question. If something is not correct, please give a reference from the Tipitaka.

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:46 pm

Direct evidence from the Tipitaka that breath meditation is not Anapana
Agree.
But Anapanasati starts with the breath meditation.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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