SarathW wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:06 am
Important conclusion: While kasina and breath meditation (which take on “neutral” worldly objects) do not lead to agitation of the mind and actually lead to calming of the mind, they will never lead to Nibbana.
This conclusive ascertainment seems to be a bit overdone.
Bhikkhus, if wanderers of other sects ask you: 'In
what dwelling, friends, did the Blessed One
generally dwell during the rains residence?' - being
asked thus, you should answer those wanderers
thus: 'During the rains residence, friends, the
Blessed One generally dwelt in the obtention (sati) of the placement (samādhi) [in Citta], through (mindful) breathing (ānāpāna) [viz. Ānāpānasatisamādhi].
Sace kho, bhikkhave, aññatitthiyā paribbājakā evaṃ
puccheyyuṃ: ‘katamenāvuso, vihārena samaṇo
gotamo vassāvāsaṃ bahulaṃ vihāsī’ti, evaṃ puṭṭhā
tumhe, bhikkhave, tesaṃ aññatitthiyānaṃ
paribbājakānaṃ evaṃ byākareyyātha:
‘ānāpānassatisamādhinā kho, āvuso, bhagavā
vassāvāsaṃ bahulaṃ vihāsī’ti.
Let alone the time when the Bhagavān was not in the rain residences.
Sounds like Ānāpānasatisamādhi was really important.
ānāpānassatisamādhi is usually and quite wrongly translated as: "concentration by mindfulness of breathing".
Something that I have already covered in previous threads.
Now, on top of the fact that ānāpānassatisamādhi was the preferred dwelling of the Buddha, one must look how this ānāpānassati leads to nibbana.
But what is nibbana?
Definitely not a "mystery".
Or at least not for the ones who have unveiled the corruption of the Teaching.
Nibbana means "The knowledge beyond [the bliss (ka) of] breath ".
निस् nis (var. nir, niś, niṣ, niḥ)
वा √ vā
to blow (RV. )
The question is:
could निर्वाण (निस् - वा - ण) nirvāṇa been wrongly interpreted when written in Sanskrit (as per Upanishadic creed).
Could it be that the वा (of √ vā) in nirvāṇa, be instead the अव् of √ av (निस् - अव् - ण) ?
nir - ava - ṇa
where ava is the active of √ av
- impel , animate
क Ka is Brahma/Prajāpati - Ka is the existential creature - Ka is breath - Ka is bliss.
Breathing in and breathing out, is the other body (Ka-ya - what belongs to Ka), made from my existential being (kā-ya-aññatara (अन्यतर anyatara)-ahaṃ), says Buddha in SN 54.10.
Sa hovāca vijānāmyahaṃ yatprāṇo brahma kaṃ ca tu khaṃ
ca na vijānāmīti te hocur yad vāva kaṃ tad eva khaṃ yad eva khaṃ tad eva
kamiti prāṇaṃ ca hāsmai tadākāśaṃ cocuḥ
He replied: "I can understand that brahman is breath.
But I don't understand
how it can be bliss (Ka) or space (kha)".
"Bliss is the same as space," they replied, "and space is the same as bliss." And
they explained to him both breath and space.
Here, vāva is just the active of vā.
And "maybe" this is where the conservative (yet revolutionary) Buddha, diverged with the Upanishadic crowd.
It is not about the √ vā , but about the √ av; so to speak.
It is about knowing that it is not about the existential bliss of breath; but about the bliss of citta, attained in passadhi and samadhi sambojjhange.
The progression is piti > sukha > sukañca kāyena > sukhino citta.
Anyway, let's call it a blow, an exhalation, a puff, a breath (vāva). It won't make much difference.
It won't make a mystery.
The result will be the same: viz. going beyond the bliss of that breath (blow). For breath brings bliss in Ānāpānasati.
In Ānāpānasati, √ vā becomes √ av; the particular attribute of Ka. That is to say, "bliss". But this bliss is still a mano/citta kind of bliss. An impermanent bliss that is not my self.
The permanent bliss is attained only when citta is totally liberated in upekkha. Which occurs in passadhi and samadhi sambojjhange (sukhino citta).
So far so good for Nibbāna/nirvāṇa.
Let's see why Ānāpānasati (SN 54.13) leads to nibbāna.
Like I just said in my previous posts on another thread, up to the last 16th steps of Ānāpānasati, which correspond to the second and third jhana (https://justpaste.it/69jp3
), we are in the Cattāro Satipaṭṭhānā (the four ways to access the obtention [of Citta]).
However, this is not the end of Ānāpānasati.
There are still all the "given up" to do with the satta sambojjhange; before reaching the total liberation of citta and the liberation by final knowledge (vijjavimutti) - the last phase of Ānāpānasati; that corresponds with the upekkhasatiparisuddhi (purity of the obtention (of citta), due to equanimity) - the last phase of the fourth jhana - where also, dukkha and sukha (bliss), have been given up.
And this is the door to Nibbāna.
For one who has attained the fourth jhana, in-breathing and out-breathing has been restrained (nirudh), and subsided, and been tranquilized).
Enter the higher jhanas. The knowledge beyond breath (and its (existential) bliss).
I suppose that your remark: " breath meditation ...will never lead to Nibbana"
is a bit lacking of some sound reading of SN 54.13, and the jhanas (with proper lexicography).
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
(And you just can't imagine how much goodness, those who desire evil, are ready to display - ToVincent).