The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:07 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:54 am
SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:57 pm
But Buddha warned not to objectified it.
Where? :shrug:
He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has known that delight is the root of suffering & stress, that from coming-into-being there is birth, and that for what has come into being there is aging & death. Therefore, with the total ending, fading away, cessation, letting go, relinquishment of craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening, I tell you."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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robertk
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by robertk » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:57 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:02 am
mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:59 am
Hi Coëmgenu,
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:56 am
I reported his falsification to the moderators, but alas. With the knowledge that they have the blessing of the moderation staff to spread their unique interpretations, I am off. Yet another reason not to use this forum as a resource.
We really should return to the topic, but I would like to emphasise that the moderation policy here is that we don't adjudicate over doctrinal points. The policy is that we leave it up to members to discuss doctrinal points (as long as it is polite and without personal attacks and so on).

It would not be practical to adjudicate over doctrine, even if we wanted to. Members here follow a range of interpretations of Dhamma, ranging from strict adherence to the Classical Commentaries, through a variety of modern interpretations, of which Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero's interepretation is just one of many. Mention any of the famous modern teachers/commentators/translators and you will find some members who think that they are misguided and others who think that they have the only true interpretation of the Dhamma.

Various members have pointed out their objections to Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero's and/or Lal's interpretations of them. That should allow other interested members to make up their own mind.

:heart:
Mike
The issue was the lying. He changed the Pāli words to suit his ends. It's not really an issue of interpretation of doctrine.

I am going to start subtly doctoring my Pāli and we'll see if anyone stops me. Maybe I'll start pretending Mahayana scriptures are suttas.
Which is more dangerous, monopoly money or the expensive counterfeit that even fools experts

which one do you think the posts you are worried about is?

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:59 am

Just one last posting. I have revised the post with the wrong quotation in just one place:
https://puredhamma.net/key-hidden-dhamm ... ical-link/

It is not a good idea to accuse a person as a liar, based on one mistake. That did not change the essence of the interpretation of anatta, which is much more deeper than "no-self".

I have pointed out MANY inconsistencies in what people say here. Please read through what I have written carefully. Time will prove that following are the truths:
1. Vinnana is defiled consciousness and one attains Nibbana by purifying one's defiled vinnana.

2. Visuddhimagga, and many other late commentaries distorted Buddha Dhamma.

3. The Buddha prohibited translating the Tipitaka to Sanskrit, so it is going against the word of the Buddha to even quote such translations.

4. I have pointed out many other inconsistencies/misinterpretations at puredhamma.net. My posts are dated (after 2016 or so); in the future, one will be able to see exactly when they were written. As my understanding improves, I revise even minor mistakes or explain something better, but the main ideas have not changed since I started the website in 2014.

5. Lastly, my advice to those who get angry at my interpretations is not to read them. Why get aggravated and possibly commit Ariya upavada? If someone is making Dhamma adhamma, that person will be discredited at the end.
- By the way, "Sangha bheda" is making Dhamma to be adhamma, and is a serious offense, and those who commit will be punished by the nature (via bad kamma vipaka). No need to worry about that.
- https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/an10.37: ‘Saṃghabhedo, saṃghabhedo’ti, bhante, vuccati. Kittāvatā nu kho, bhante, saṃgho bhinno hotī”ti? “Idhupāli, bhikkhū adhammaṃ dhammoti dīpenti, dhammaṃ adhammoti dīpenti, avinayaṃ vinayoti dīpenti, vinayaṃ avinayoti dīpenti, abhāsitaṃ alapitaṃ tathāgatena bhāsitaṃ lapitaṃ tathāgatenāti dīpenti, bhāsitaṃ lapitaṃ tathāgatena abhāsitaṃ alapitaṃ tathāgatenāti dīpenti, anāciṇṇaṃ tathāgatena āciṇṇaṃ tathāgatenāti dīpenti, āciṇṇaṃ tathāgatena anāciṇṇaṃ tathāgatenāti dīpenti, apaññattaṃ tathāgatena paññattaṃ tathāgatenāti dīpenti, paññattaṃ tathāgatena apaññattaṃ tathāgatenāti dīpenti. Te imehi dasahi vatthūhi avakassanti apakassanti āveni
kammāni karonti āveni pātimokkhaṃ uddisanti. Ettāvatā kho, upāli, saṃgho bhinno hotī”ti
.

I wish you all well; no bad feelings on my part. Sometimes, I get annoyed at some comments but I never get angry. Every day, I ask for forgiveness for unintentionally offending anyone (but I have to tell the truth), and also forgive anyone who makes any offending comments.

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:33 am

It is not a good idea to accuse a person as a liar, based on one mistake.
Agree.
That did not change the essence of the interpretation of anatta, which is much more deeper than "no-self".
Ven Dhammanando has made a post which gave a comprehensive analysis of Anatta.
I like to see your opinion on this. There is an outcry in Sri Lanka about Ven Abha's interpretation of Anatta. You are one of the people who promote his views. So you have a responsibility to stand up to your claims in Pure Dhamma website. In my opinion, there are many misrepresentations of Buddha's teaching on your website.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:42 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:07 am
DooDoot wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:54 am
SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:57 pm
But Buddha warned not to objectified it.
Where? :shrug:
He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has known that delight is the root of suffering & stress, that from coming-into-being there is birth, and that for what has come into being there is aging & death. Therefore, with the total ending, fading away, cessation, letting go, relinquishment of craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening, I tell you."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The above as a translation appears dependent upon the meaning of the Pali word translated as "conceive". Regardless, the verse above appears to be about the "subjectification" of Nibbana rather than "objectification". Regardless, what is the Pali for "objectification"? Where in the suttas did the Buddha teach about the English meaning of "objectification"? :shrug:

The internet provides the following meaning of objectification:
objectification
ɒbdʒɛktɪfɪˈkeɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun

1. the action of degrading someone to the status of a mere object. "the objectification of women as sexual possessions"

2. the expression of something abstract in a concrete form. "the objectification of images may be astonishingly vivid in dreams"
It seems the Buddha objectified Nibbana into a concrete form:
There is, bhikkhus, a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned. If, bhikkhus, there were no not-born, not-brought-to-being, not-made, not-conditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned. But since there is a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned, therefore an escape is discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .irel.html

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:00 am

What I am saying is you can not explain Nibbana is positive form.
If I say there is unmade, unborn and unconditioned thing what is it?
Perhaps we should have a new topic to discuss this.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:17 am

Since SarathW does not want to take my advice, I thought about posting the following video. It is about a lady from Sweden who has attained the forth jhana by listening to Abhaya Thero’s deasnas. Her account starts around 2 minutes in to the video:



Now, I am not certain whether she has attained an Ariya jhana (jhana with magga phala); I would not know. But one can compare her experience with what the Buddha has described a jhanic experience to be. For example, whether you get to the fourth jhana by simply SUPPRESSING kama raga (anariya fourth jhana) or removing kama raga (Ariya fourth jhana), it is the same jhana. It is just a higher realm in the 31 realms, and the experience is of that realm.

Thousands of others have attained jhana, but I believe almost all are discussed in Sinhala. I have randomly selected one video out of several on experiences of many poeple:



I have pointed at my website that jhana not necessarily mean magga phala (even though they were listening to desanas on correct interpretation of anicca, dukkha, anatta), and that some of them may have attained just anariya jhana. On the other hand, there could be many who have attained magga phala, and not jhana. Magga phala and jhana are two different things.

In either case, it is not easy to get to a jhana, and especially to the fourth jhana. How many of those who are criticizing can attain a jhana?

I said I was not going to comment, but then I thought this information could be useful to some.

SarathW: I have explained anicca and anatta in great detail at my website. There is no need to discuss it again here. There are many basic ideas that one needs to comprehend first, before one can even start comprehending those deep concepts. That is what I was trying to convey in this forum.

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:38 am

This is one of the biggest damage done by Ven. Abhaya.
One of my friends went to his workshop and claimed that she also attained Jhana.
This is irresponsible propaganda!
By the way, the video is in the English language you all can evaluate this yourself.
For me, this is no different from the exorcism in the Christian church.
The most strange thing about this video towards the end is this lady was able to tell the past birth of her husband and the scaremongering of people.
Last edited by SarathW on Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:53 am

How many of those who are criticizing can attain a jhana?
I cant attain even upacara Samadhi let alone first Jhana.
Many people who claimed that they have attained Jhana has no idea what Jhana means.
I had those experiences and once I thought I was an Arahant.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

justindesilva
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by justindesilva » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:51 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:53 am
How many of those who are criticizing can attain a jhana?
I cant attain even upacara Samadhi let alone first Jhana.
Many people who claimed that they have attained Jhana has no idea what Jhana means.
I had those experiences and once I thought I was an Arahant.
Many sri lankans in foreign countries try to follow buddhism by inviting various buddhist priests. I am aware they are used to finding easy ways to attain awareness. Though they are very sincere , their exposure to buddist environment and their life styles curtail them to find and research in seeking true awareness.
I must tell my sri lankan friends that there are no other path other than arya ashtanga margaya to get at sotapanna sakadagami and anagami to step on to arhant stage. And for that dana sila bhavana are equally important.
Lord budda in mulaparyaya sutta explains the variety of views held by a layman and an arhant. The necessity of identifying reality of views . Before taking delight on your immediate experience please also read mulaparyaya sutta. It is difficult to understand but worth understanding , not to be misled.

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Lankamed
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lankamed » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:31 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:38 am
This is one of the biggest damage done by Ven. Abhaya.
One of my friends went to his workshop and claimed that she also attained Jhana.
This is irresponsible propaganda!
By the way, the video is in the English language you all can evaluate this yourself.
For me, this is no different from the exorcism in the Christian church.
The most strange thing about this video towards the end is this lady was able to tell the past birth of her husband and the scaremongering of people.
And whenever somebody speak of these issues they quickly resort to "don't commit Arya Upavada". The other day I was talking with another "Waharaka" follower where he asked "if things are impermanat (Anitya) where does Karma gets stored?". I don't know whether this is an actual argument they putforth or not. :D And it's quite funny (and sad) to watch Waharaka Abhayarathana try to explain how various fish got their names. :rofl:


SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:12 am

Another prominent monk Ven. Kiribathgoda Gnanananda (Mahameunawa) join the debate against Ven Abhaya and the rest.
The video in the Sinhalese language.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:52 pm

I see that people keep posting useless and derogatory videos instead of posting any material with substance.

I watched the last video posted by SarathW since it is by a well-known bhikkhu in Sri Lanka.

He referred to Waharaka Thero only once, and in bad terms. But NEVER discussed WHY Wharaka Thero’s explanations are not correct.

Starting at 10 minutes, to the end, he had a lot to say about another bhikkhu, whom I have not even heard of. That bhikkhu has nothing to do with Waharaka Thero.

So, there is absolutely nothing substantial in the video. It was amazing to see that there is not a single instance of explaining Dhamma that is relevant to the controversial points like anicca and anatta.

ToVincent
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by ToVincent » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:06 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:53 am

I cant attain even upacara Samadhi let alone first Jhana.

Do we really know what samadhi is all about; and where it takes place ?
https://justpaste.it/5x298
.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
In this world with its ..., māras, ... in this population with its ascetics.... (AN 5.30).
------
We are all possessed - more or less.
------
And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241
------
https://justpaste.it/j5o4

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:47 pm

SarathW had said:
This is one of the biggest damage done by Ven. Abhaya.
One of my friends went to his workshop and claimed that she also attained Jhana.
This is irresponsible propaganda!
By the way, the video is in the English language you all can evaluate this yourself.
Just because someone cannot attain jhanas, it is not logical to say jhanas cannot be attained by anyone.
Jhanas correspond to brahma realms in this world. They can be attained by at least suppressing kama raga even without magga phala.

Jhanic states have clearly defined characteristics. In particular, at the fourth jhana: "“Great king, suppose a man were to be sitting covered from the head down by a white cloth, so that there would be no part of his entire body not suffused by the white cloth. In the same way, great king, the bhikkhu sits suffusing his body with a pure bright mind, so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused by a pure bright mind.."

The above is from the Sutta Central translation of DN2, Sāmañ­ña­phala Sutta.

That fourth jhana has been experienced by many people in recent days, and their descriptions match the above sutta description. The Swedish lady's description matches that too. It may not be very clear since both that lady and Abhaya Thero are not very good in speaking English.

I don't know whether those who have attained jhana have magga phala or not. That cannot be determined just by being able to get to jhanas. Jhanas and magga phala are two different things. One can attain magga phala without attaining jhanas too.

Furthermore, it is also a myth that magga phala cannot be attained these days. Of course magga phala cannot be attained by misinterpreting anicca as just impermanence or anatta as "no-self". One needs to see the unfruitfulness (and the dangers) in pursuing material things (sense pleasures) in this world to attain magga phala, i.e., one needs to see the anicca nature. Anicca is much deeper than just impermanence.

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