The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:03 pm

Lal wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:45 pm
I was actually looking for buddhavacana from you wherein the Buddha directly comments on the meaning of the words he is talking about in a way that's congruent to your exegeses. I would particularly like one of the Buddha explaining "san", since you think it's so fundamental to the Dhamma.
If you cannot see the buddhavacana so clearly explained, there is nothing else I can do.
The Buddha did not spell out "1 plus 1 equals 2" either.

Of course, the Buddha himself was not able to convince many people at that time.
- Some will understand, some will not. That is just the way it is.
Maybe you should quote an instance of the Buddha himself directly explaining the meaning of this alleged term "san", since it is allegedly so integral to his Dhamma.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:53 pm

Lal wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:45 pm
If you cannot see the buddhavacana so clearly explained, there is nothing else I can do.
This is how I mapped it as can still be seen in the current version of the Welcome page at http://impuredhamma.ext.trekmentor.com/ :
If you don't know the true meaning of 'welcome' but stick to what could be wrong, your self ignorance could lead you to touble. We won't be able to help.
Last edited by Trekmentor on Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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kstan1122
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by kstan1122 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:55 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 am
Can you find a nice handy quote of the Buddha saying that there is such a word as "san" that means this?
Can you find any example of the Buddha teaching like this?
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:03 pm
Maybe you should quote an instance of the Buddha himself directly explaining the meaning of this alleged term "san", since it is allegedly so integral to his Dhamma.
The word "san" is known during Buddha's time so the Buddha did not mention the meaning of the word "san" anywhere in the Tipitaka, this fact is shown by the whole Saṃyuttanikāya is being written on "san". Most website that hosted the Tipitaka only mention the Saṃyuttanikāya as either "Linked discourse" or "Connected discourse". The word "Saṃyutta" means "linked with san" or "connected to san" which bring out the actual meaning and is easily understood as the whole nikāya of Saṃyuttanikāya is all about "san". Thus, from here you can see that the meaning of the word "san" has been lost for many years.

PS: "san" means the good and bad things we acquire. The Buddha teaching (etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ) is to cleanse the mind (Sacittapariyodapanaṃ) by taking in the good things (kusalassa upasampadā) and discard the bad things (Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ) to progress on the path. (from Dhammapada verse 183)

Much metta.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:52 am

kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:55 am
The word "san" is known during Buddha's time so the Buddha did not mention the meaning of the word "san" anywhere in the Tipitaka, this fact is shown by the whole Saṃyuttanikāya is being written on "san". Most website that hosted the Tipitaka only mention the Saṃyuttanikāya as either "Linked discourse" or "Connected discourse". The word "Saṃyutta" means "linked with san" or "connected to san" which bring out the actual meaning and is easily understood as the whole nikāya of Saṃyuttanikāya is all about "san". Thus, from here you can see that the meaning of the word "san" has been lost for many years.
By analogy, one could craft something like this:

The word "don" was known during our elders' times so they did not mention the meaning of the word "don" anywhere in the books they wrote, this fact is shown by the existence of books titled "Donkeys" that had been written on "don". Most websites that host Donkey books only mention the Donkeys as either "animals" or "living beings". The word "Donkey" means "linked with don" or "connected to don" which bring out the actual meaning and is easily understood as the whole books on Donkeys is all about "don". Thus, from here you can see that the meaning of the word "don" has been lost for many years.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:39 am

kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:55 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 am
Can you find a nice handy quote of the Buddha saying that there is such a word as "san" that means this?
Can you find any example of the Buddha teaching like this?
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:03 pm
Maybe you should quote an instance of the Buddha himself directly explaining the meaning of this alleged term "san", since it is allegedly so integral to his Dhamma.
The word "san" is known during Buddha's time so the Buddha did not mention the meaning of the word "san" anywhere in the Tipitaka, this fact is shown by the whole Saṃyuttanikāya is being written on "san". Most website that hosted the Tipitaka only mention the Saṃyuttanikāya as either "Linked discourse" or "Connected discourse". The word "Saṃyutta" means "linked with san" or "connected to san" which bring out the actual meaning and is easily understood as the whole nikāya of Saṃyuttanikāya is all about "san". Thus, from here you can see that the meaning of the word "san" has been lost for many years.

PS: "san" means the good and bad things we acquire. The Buddha teaching (etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ) is to cleanse the mind (Sacittapariyodapanaṃ) by taking in the good things (kusalassa upasampadā) and discard the bad things (Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ) to progress on the path. (from Dhammapada verse 183)

Much metta.
So, basically, you can't find a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

kstan1122
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by kstan1122 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:25 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:39 am
So, basically, you can't find a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".
理解或不理解取决于你自己,如果你不理解,没有人可以帮助你。

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:00 am

kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:25 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:39 am
So, basically, you can't find a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".
理解或不理解取决于你自己,如果你不理解,没有人可以帮助你。
:rofl:
Is this seriously your response to the above?

You can do better.

Insulting me in Chinese isn't exactly a production of even a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".

Can you do that instead of the above nonsense?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

kstan1122
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by kstan1122 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:11 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:00 am
Insulting me in Chinese isn't exactly a production of even a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".

Can you do that instead of the above nonsense?
I did not insult or state anything that is derogatory, I merely state the fact. With your deep understanding of dhamma, you could understood well of the "san" in all of the Saṃyuttanikāya.

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:47 am

kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:25 am
理解或不理解取决于你自己,如果你不理解,没有人可以帮助你。
I've got it captured in the form said earlier. Repeating:
Trekmentor wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:53 pm
Lal wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:45 pm
If you cannot see the buddhavacana so clearly explained, there is nothing else I can do.
This is how I mapped it as can still be seen in the current version of the Welcome page at http://impuredhamma.ext.trekmentor.com/ :
If you don't know the true meaning of 'welcome' but stick to what could be wrong, your self ignorance could lead you to touble. We won't be able to help.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:55 am

kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:11 am
I did not insult or state anything that is derogatory, I merely state the fact. With your deep understanding of dhamma, you could understood well of the "san" in all of the Saṃyuttanikāya.
Following the same analogy that I mentioned earlier, one could craft something like this:
I did not insult or state anything that is derogatory, I merely state the fact. With your deep understanding of language, you could understand well of the "don" in all of the Donkeys.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:11 am

Coemegnu wrote:
So, basically, you can't find a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".
Of course. We have explained what is meant "sankhara" and many other key words using the concept of "san".
- Sammā Sambuddha (san mā san bhava uddha) is another that I had not in the list I believe.

Can you or your teacher explain what is meant by any of those "san" words?
How about just one word "sankhara" to begin with?

The main problem with you, your teacher (who seems to be in hiding again), and this Trekmentor person trying hard to get some attention, is the following:

None of you have explanations. Just derogatory remarks.

Can you explain what is meant by sankhara and how that explanation is compatible with Nibbana as "vinnana nirodha".
- That would be beneficial to everyone.
Last edited by Lal on Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:20 am

Lal wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:11 am
We have explained what is meant "sankhara" and many other key words using the concept of "san".
As per analogy, that would go like this:
We have explained what is meant by "donkey" and many other key words using the concept of "don".
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:58 pm

Lal wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:11 am
Coemegnu wrote:
So, basically, you can't find a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".
Of course. We have explained what is meant "sankhara" and many other key words using the concept of "san".
But I want the Buddha explaining this, and explaining this directly. Not you.

There's still no quotes.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:00 pm

kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:11 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:00 am
Insulting me in Chinese isn't exactly a production of even a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".

Can you do that instead of the above nonsense?
I did not insult or state anything that is derogatory, I merely state the fact. With your deep understanding of dhamma, you could understood well of the "san" in all of the Saṃyuttanikāya.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as to whether or not it was an insulting vainglorious thing to say on your part.

How are those quotes coming along? Have you found a single one yet?
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:06 pm

Lal wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:11 am
Coemegnu wrote:
So, basically, you can't find a single sermon of the Buddha's that directly teaches about the alleged integral concept of "san".
The main problem with you, your teacher (who seems to be in hiding again), and this Trekmentor person trying hard to get some attention, is the following:
:juggling:
Are you suggesting Ven Dhammanando teaches me Mahāyāna Buddhism?

Ven Dhammanando is my personal teacher. Of course. Why didn't I see it before. It's a good thing your discernment is so sharp, Lal.

What if I told you that the Lord Buddha taught a foundational doctrine called bodhicitta, but it was just so obvious to everyone living at the time that he didn't feel the need to explain it to anyone.

That is your claim with san.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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