The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:41 pm

Lal wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:12 am
P.S. I just listened to 30 minutes of the desana by Ven. Abhaya posted by Saoshun above.
One can understand the FUNDAMENTALS of Buddha dhamma from this desana than by reading hundreds of incorrectly translated deep suttas.
I highly recommend listening to that desana.
That's like attempting to describe black as white.

The expelled foolish novice monk Walasmulle Abhaya says that those who meditate experience loose motion. His foolish argument is that as the meditation cleanses body loose motion takes the bad things out.

Some of the donkeys who believed this foolish argument went to the extent of publicly claiming that they experienced. Videos are around showing them enthusiastically talking about their loose motion experience.

What follows is a link to an article in Sinhala that I wrote about an year ago about it. The video in that page shows another foolish monk of the same gang. His list includes vomiting and phlegm in addition to loose motion.

"වලස්මුල්ලේ අභය බමුණාගේ වමනේ යන, බඩ යන, සෙම ගලන භාවනා"
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:11 pm

Lal wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:23 pm
Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:27 pm
Lal wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:12 am
I have explained this in detail.
"What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Samsāra)", Jan 09, 2019
Yes, I saw it the first time around. But what was pseudo-philological silliness when posted in January doesn't become something different when it's re-posted in February.
You did not provide any evidence then, and you do not now.
- Just using derogatory words will not get you anywhere.
This material copy-pasted from I think page 3 directly addresses the (mis)usage of "sam/san" you proliferated above.
Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:18 pm
Hi Rajitha,

I am posting my reply here as it's not really relevant to Binocular's "Courage in the Case of Versatility" thread.
Dhammanando wrote:
rajitha7 wrote:Would you be able to show the 3 the most significant errors you find there, please?
My allotted internet time for today is almost up. I may return to the subject tomorrow, but I don’t promise.
So now I’ll return to the subject, though not in the way that you request. Instead I propose to take a close look at just one randomly selected page from the Pure Dhamma website. (Actually I started out by randomly selecting *three* pages, intending to comment on all of them, but there were so many mistakes on just the first one that I've decided to call it a day).

The page in question purports to be about the meaning of the saṃ part of the word saṃsāra and is found in a section of the website ominously entitled “Key Dhamma Concepts that have Been Hidden”. :spy:

The article opens with the exciting revelation of a Pali term whose meaning has allegedly been "hidden for thousands of years" but has now been rediscovered.
:woohoo:
Pure Dhamma wrote:1. A key word, the meaning of which has been hidden for thousands of years, is “san” (pronounced like son).
Sad to say, saṃ is actually one of the most common prefixes in Pali and Sanskrit, as well as in many modern Indian languages. There is no mystery to the word at all. Functionally it’s simply the Indic equivalent of the Latin “com-”. Its range of meanings in both Pali and Sanskrit is well-known and well-documented and at no time has its meaning been “hidden”.

However, by asserting that the meaning of some key Pali term has been hidden or lost or misunderstood by lesser mortals, messianic revisionist Theravadins grant themselves the luxury of assigning whatever new meaning they like to it...
Pure Dhamma wrote:“San’ is basically the term for “good and bad things we acquire” while we exist anywhere in the 31 realms; see, “The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma“.
Not according to the texts, which consistently explain saṃ in the noun saṃsāra and in the verb saṃsarati as being a term used in the sense of abbocchinnaṃ, an adverb meaning ‘continuously’ or ‘without interruption’. For example:
  • Khandhānañ’ ca paṭipāṭi, dhātu-āyatanāna ca,
    Abbocchinnaṃ vattamānā, saṃsāro’ ti pavuccatī ti.


    The process of the aggregates, elements and bases,
    Proceeding without interruption is called ‘saṃsāra’.
    (DA. ii. 496)
Pure Dhamma wrote:2. There is also a reason for calling what we “pile up” as “san“. In Pali and Sinhala, the word for numbers is “sankhyä“, and sankhyä = “san” + “khyä“, meaning (add &multiply) + (subtract & divide), i.e., sankhya is what is used for addition, multiplication, subtraction, and division. From this, “san” gives the idea of “piling up” (addition and multiplication); “khyä” gives the idea of “removal” (subtraction and division).

Therefore “san” is used to indicate things we do in the sansaric journey; see below for examples.
It’s correct that the saṃ- in saṃsāra and the saṅ- in saṅkhyā are one and the same verbal prefix. But from their sharing of the same prefix it doesn’t follow that the meaning of saṃsāra can be derived from the meaning of saṅkhyā.

We wouldn’t say, for example, that the meaning of ‘transport’ can be inferred from the meaning of ‘transgender’, or that the meaning of ‘confetti’ can shed light on the meaning of ‘community’ just because the two items in each pair happen to share the same Latin prefixes.
Pure Dhamma wrote:“Khyä” or “Khaya” is used to indicate removal. Nibbana is attained via removal of defilements (raga, dosa, moha), and thus Nibbana is “ragakkhaya“, “dosakkhaya“, and “mohakkhaya“.
Etymologically there is no connection between the -khyā in saṅkhyā and the khaya in rāgakkhaya. One is derived from the verb saṅkhāyati (to count or calculate) and the other from the verb khayati (to wither). The disparateness of the two can be seen even more starkly in Sanskrit, where their respective cognates are saṅkhāyati and kṣinoti.

Like ‘dick’ and ‘dyke’ or ‘blob’ and ‘bulb’, khaya and khyā are unrelated words that just happen to share two consonants.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Just by knowing this, it is possible to understand the roots of many common words, such as sankhara, sansara, sanna, samma, etc. Let us analyze some of these words.
The writer seems to be confusing roots (dhātu) and prefixes (upasagga). Saṅkhāra, saṃsāra, and saññā all share the prefix saṃ. But their roots — and it is these, not the prefixes that are the primary source of a Pali word’s meaning — are √khar (= Skt. kṛ), √sar (= sṛ), and √ñā (= jñā) respectively.

As for sammā, this is an indeclinable particle (nipāta) and as such has no verbal root and no relationship whatever with the three nouns.
Pure Dhamma wrote:4. Another important term “samma” which comes from “san” + “mä“, which means “to become free of san“. For example:

“Mä hoti jati, jati“, means “may I be free of repeated birth”.
The word is a prohibitive particle (“Don’t!” Let it not!”). It’s also an indeclinable, which means it’s neither reducible nor modifiable nor combinable with other words. Indeclinables are to Pali philology what inert gases are to chemistry. As such it has no more to do with the sound in sammā than it does with the sound in Māra or marble or marzipan or Margate or Marlene Dietrich. It just happens to sound the same.
Pure Dhamma wrote:5. Knowing the correct meaning of such terms, leads to clear understanding of many terms:
Indeed. And like so many things in this world, the correct meaning is not arrived at merely by wishing it were so.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Sansära (or samsara) = san + sära (meaning fruitful) = perception that “san” are good, fruitful. Thus one continues in the long rebirth process with the wrong perception that it is fruitful.
The sāra in saṃsāra doesn’t mean fruitful. In the Suttas the Buddha connects the noun saṃsāra with the verb saṃsarati. This verb’s primary meaning is to repeatedly come (or go) somewhere or to wander or move about continuously. From this we get the secondary meaning, to transmigrate.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Sammä = san + mä (meaning eliminate) = eliminate or route out “san”. Thus Samma Ditthi is routing out the wrong views that keeps one bound to sansara.
No, this is both etymologically wrong and factually wrong as to what sammādiṭṭhi is. What the writer is describing is diṭṭhujukamma, the action of straightening of one’s views. If one is successful at this then sammādiṭṭhi is the result.
Pure Dhamma wrote:Sandittiko = san + ditthi (meaning vision) = ability to see “san”; one becomes sanditthiko at the Sotapanna stage. Most texts define sandittiko with inconsistent words like, self-evident, immediately apparent, visible here and now, etc.
There are two traditional etymologies for sandiṭṭhiko, one of which gives rise to the translation “to be seen by oneself” and the other to translations like “self-evident”. But regardless of which of these one prefers, the term is one of the special qualities of the Dhamma, not of any person. And so to speak of somebody “becoming” sandiṭṭhiko at the sotāpanna stage is nonsensical.
Pure Dhamma wrote:6. A nice example to illustrate the significance of “san”, is to examine the verse that Ven. Assaji delivered to Upatissa (the lay name of Ven. Sariputta, who was a chief disciple of the Buddha):

“Ye dhamma hetu pabbava, te san hetun Thathagatho aha, Te san ca yo nirodho, evan vadi maha Samano”

Te = three, hetu = cause, nirodha = nir+uda = stop from arising

The translation is now crystal clear:

“All dhamma (in this world) arise due to causes arising from the three “san”s: raga, dosa, moha. The Buddha has shown how to eliminate those “san”s and thus stop dhamma from arising”
This part is the clearest evidence so far that the author is attempting to explain points of Pali without having learned anything of the language at all. The word tesaṃ is simply the demonstrative pronoun te (‘this’, ‘that’) in the genitive plural case. It means “of these”, “of those”. The saṃ part is an inflectional ending (vibhatti). It has absolutely nothing to do with the prefix saṃ in saṃsāra.
Pure Dhamma wrote:7. [...]

Each Pali word is packed with lot of information, and thus commentaries were written to expound the meaning of important Pali words.

A good example is the key Pali word “anicca“. In Sanskrit it is “anitya“, and this is what normally translated to English as “impermanence”. But the actual meaning of anicca is very clear in Sinhala: The Pali word “icca” (pronounced “ichcha”) is the same in Sinhala, with the idea of “this is what I like”. Thus anicca has the meaning “cannot keep it the way I like”.
The nicca in anicca has nothing to do with the adjective iccha (wishing) or the noun icchā (a wish) or the verb icchati (to wish).

The colloquial Sinhala pronunciation of it is actually a mispronunciation when judged by the phonetic descriptions in the ancient Pali grammars. When Sri Lankans pronounce Pali words their commonest mistake is to make aspirated consonants into non-aspirates and non-aspirated consonants into aspirates. This can be seen in the unorthodox romanization system used at the Pure Dhamma site:

gathi instead of gati
hethu-pala instead of hetu-phala.
micca-ditthi instead of micchā-diṭṭhi
satipattana instead of satipaṭṭhāna
Etc., etc.

By contrast, this is the international standard used by indologists for over a century:
  • ක ඛ ග ඝ ඞ
    ka, kha, ga, gha, ṅa

    ච ඡ ජ ඣ ඤ
    ca, cha, ja, jha, ña

    ට ඨ ඩ ඪ ණ
    ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa

    ත ථ ද ධ න
    ta, tha, da, dha, na

    ප ඵ බ භ ම
    pa, pha, ba, bha, ma

    ය ර ල ව ස හ ළ ං
    ya, ra, la, va, sa, ha, ḷa, ṃ

Conclusion

The Pure Dhamma website offers a variety of revisionist readings of the Pali Suttas based upon the site-owner’s (or his guru’s) claimed re-discovery of supposed hidden meanings of key Pali terms.
These proposed hidden meanings, when not presented merely as bald assertions, are defended by resort to Pali philological analysis.
But since the site-owner is demonstrably incompetent in both Indic philology in general and Pali in particular his arguments are undeserving of credence. Rather than leading to the true understanding of the Dhamma via the revelation of higher (but long-concealed) meanings, they lead only to baloney.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:07 pm

Regarding the quotation by Coëmgenu on comments made by Dhammanando, I will address a few just to show the ignorance involved:

“Sad to say, saṃ is actually one of the most common prefixes in Pali and Sanskrit, as well as in many modern Indian languages. There is no mystery to the word at all. Functionally it’s simply the Indic equivalent of the Latin “com-”. Its range of meanings in both Pali and Sanskrit is well-known and well-documented and at no time has its meaning been “hidden”.

OK. So, explain the meanings of all those “san” words with your meaning for “sam”.

“Not according to the texts, which consistently explain saṃ in the noun saṃsāra and in the verb saṃsarati as being a term used in the sense of abbocchinnaṃ, an adverb meaning ‘continuously’ or ‘without interruption’. For example:

Khandhānañ’ ca paṭipāṭi, dhātu-āyatanāna ca,
Abbocchinnaṃ vattamānā, saṃsāro’ ti pavuccatī ti.

The process of the aggregates, elements and bases,
Proceeding without interruption is called ‘saṃsāra’.”

How does this contradict my clarification? That verse simply says “samsara” is the rebirth process. One stays in the rebirth process, BECAUSE one perceives that “san” or worldly things will provide happiness.

“It’s correct that the saṃ- in saṃsāra and the saṅ- in saṅkhyā are one and the same verbal prefix. But from their sharing of the same prefix it doesn’t follow that the meaning of saṃsāra can be derived from the meaning of saṅkhyā.

We wouldn’t say, for example, that the meaning of ‘transport’ can be inferred from the meaning of ‘transgender’, or that the meaning of ‘confetti’ can shed light on the meaning of ‘community’ just because the two items in each pair happen to share the same Latin prefixes.”

Trying to equate “san” with “trans” is not even funny. This is why you do not understand the meanining of even “sankhara”.
Take a look at all those “san” words, the meanings of which become very clear if you give up your silly comparisons.


“The nicca in anicca has nothing to do with the adjective iccha (wishing) or the noun icchā (a wish) or the verb icchati (to wish).”

Just because you say they are not related, does not mean they are not. By the way, “iccha” is not a wish; “iccha” means “liking/craving”.


“The colloquial Sinhala pronunciation of it is actually a mispronunciation when judged by the phonetic descriptions in the ancient Pali grammars. When Sri Lankans pronounce Pali words their commonest mistake is to make aspirated consonants into non-aspirates and non-aspirated consonants into aspirates. This can be seen in the unorthodox romanization system used at the Pure Dhamma site”

Wow. I wonder where you get the idea that you have the authority to make a statement like that. Are you an authority on Sinhala language? Can you even speak/read Sinhala?
- This is the problem with these so-called “scholars” who think they know all about languages and religions. The term “scholar” is misused today. I see many “scholars” of Buddhism who do not have any idea what the message of the Buddha was.


If one cannot state the meaning of a given key Pali word in one’s own words, I do not consider him/her to be a “scholar” on Buddhism. Can you explain, in your own words, the meaning of sankhara and vinnana?
- The Buddha clearly instructed the bhikkhus to explain Buddha Dhamma to people in their own dialect without worrying about fancy words, but making sure that they UNDERSTAND what is meant.
- This is also why the Buddha rejected Sanskrit, which uses fancy-sounding words without any real meaning. A good example is Pratītyasamutpāda (the Sanskrit term for Paticca Samuppada).

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:02 am

Lal wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:07 pm
OK. So, explain the meanings of all those “san” words with your meaning for “sam”.
How on earth do you intend to do this? Neither me nor Venerable Dhammanando has given you a definition of saṁ that is in any way either of "ours."
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:43 am

This unskilled foolish monk's talks suggest incompetency in distinguishing what is included in Dhamma and what is not. Lord Buddha had not taught about a branch of Dhamma or a concept that goes with the name 'san'. Yet in the video referenced below, this foolish monk who is known to make self contradictory statements can be heard talking about a topic called 'san'.

Image
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:34 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:02 am
Lal wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:07 pm
OK. So, explain the meanings of all those “san” words with your meaning for “sam”.
How on earth do you intend to do this? Neither me nor Venerable Dhammanando has given you a definition of saṁ that is in any way either of "ours."
Oh. I see. This was supposed to be some kind of challenge.

The issue is that there is no such thing as a "san" word, so no one can do this but you and others in your sect, who invents these meanings.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

kstan1122
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by kstan1122 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:37 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:34 am
The issue is that there is no such thing as a "san" word, so no one can do this but you and others in your sect, who invents these meanings.
"san" means the good and bad things we acquire. We need to take in the good things (kusalassa upasampadā) and discard the bad things (Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ) to progress on the path. (from Dhammapada verse 183)

This is what I have observed, those who take the "san" word as a meaningful word and used it are on the path to Sotapatti. Those not understanding the usefulness of the "san" word need to work harder and come back and check on the "san" word again to see if it make sense now. If still not able to see the usefulness, try harder and repeat the process until seeing the usefulness of the "san" word.

See the below lists regarding "san" word for the Noble Eightfold Path:

Sammā san + mā mā means to "remove" associated with removing "san"

Sammā ditthi Sammā + ditthi ditthi is vision (here to see Tilakkhana) clear vision to see danger of (and how to remove) "san"
Sammā sankappa Sammā + sankappa sankappa are conscious/unconscious thoughts thoughts to removing "san"
Sammā vācā Sammā + vācā vācā is conscious thoughts/speech speech to remove "san"
Sammā kammanta Sammā + kammanta kammanta is actions bodily actions to remove "san"
Sammā ajīva Sammā + ajīva ajīva is way one lives living style to remove "san"
Sammā vāyāma Sammā + vāyāma vāyāma is effort effort to remove "san"
Sammā sati Sammā + sati sati is mindfulness (about Tilakkhana) mindfulness to remove "san"
Sammā samādhi Sammā + samādhi samādhi is the state of equanimity (sama + adhi) state of samādhi resulting from removing "san"

We need the "san" word to be on Noble Eightfold path.

Much metta.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 am

kstan1122 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:37 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:34 am
The issue is that there is no such thing as a "san" word, so no one can do this but you and others in your sect, who invents these meanings.
"san" means the good and bad things we acquire. We need to take in the good things (kusalassa upasampadā) and discard the bad things (Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ) to progress on the path. (from Dhammapada verse 183)
Can you find a nice handy quote of the Buddha saying that there is such a word as "san" that means this?

Does the Buddha ever explain his vocabulary by breaking it apart into agglutinating suffixes? Can you find any example of the Buddha teaching like this?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:23 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 am
kstan1122 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:37 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:34 am
The issue is that there is no such thing as a "san" word, so no one can do this but you and others in your sect, who invents these meanings.
"san" means the good and bad things we acquire. We need to take in the good things (kusalassa upasampadā) and discard the bad things (Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ) to progress on the path. (from Dhammapada verse 183)
Can you find a nice handy quote of the Buddha saying that there is such a word as "san" that means this?

Does the Buddha ever explain his vocabulary by breaking it apart into agglutinating suffixes? Can you find any example of the Buddha teaching like this?
Pali is an ancient language. There were no "linguists" to analyze whether the language was "agglutinative" or "fusional". Pali actually has both aspects.

Many people know that Pali is highly inflected. The same word is changed to signal change in grammatical function.

The "agglutinative" nature or aspect is not clear many, because they do not understand the "roots", and get confused with Sanskrit roots.
Agglutinative means that words are assembled like Lego structures, out of pre-prepared blocks that snap together in specific ways while retaining their identity.
- However, the sounds may change depending on the context.

Here "san" is a key root. Its "meaning" does not change with the context, but it may sound like "sam" in many cases, BECAUSE it rhymes better that way.

I have given many examples in the post above. More examples were given at: "What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Samsāra)", Jan 09, 2019 (p. 59): What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Samsāra)
Last edited by Lal on Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:38 am

News time!

I've got the welcome page done:

http://impuredhamma.ext.trekmentor.com/

I think the next step should be to write a page about 'san'.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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budo
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by budo » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:03 pm

Trekmentor wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:38 am
News time!

I've got the welcome page done:

http://impuredhamma.ext.trekmentor.com/

I think the next step should be to write a page about 'san'.
Good work!

Saoshun
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Saoshun » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:23 pm

Many people talk linguistic, personal attacks like this guy from "site" (trekmentor) which is just manifestation of ignorance (dislike towards something the same as himself as we are on the same sansaric boat) but what about meaning? Provide the real meaning as those articles and videos so a person can attain Nibbana, why do you have such problems with it? People are getting results and everything (permanent) without the need of meditation or struggle like focusing or anything like kasina or breath, why you can not accept this fact? We are not creating any sects or cults but as everybody wants to provide truth, you can not provide anything meaningful here beside some ideas behind language or your own dislikes because of attachment to some Dhamma.

Can mods at least remind those people who are just attacking without meaning behind it? If you want to argue about things brings something that lead to Nibbana without just bashing things otherwise it's meaningless and you can not be treated seriously.

I suggest blocking profiles which do not provide anything meaningful. If you want contradict bring way or recipe to attain Nibbana better then this (which of course does not exists)
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:51 pm

Lal wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:23 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 am
kstan1122 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:37 am

"san" means the good and bad things we acquire. We need to take in the good things (kusalassa upasampadā) and discard the bad things (Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ) to progress on the path. (from Dhammapada verse 183)
Can you find a nice handy quote of the Buddha saying that there is such a word as "san" that means this?

Does the Buddha ever explain his vocabulary by breaking it apart into agglutinating suffixes? Can you find any example of the Buddha teaching like this?
Pali is an ancient language. There were no "linguists" to analyze whether the language was "agglutinative" or "fusional". Pali actually has both aspects.

Many people know that Pali is highly inflected. The same word is changed to signal change in grammatical function.

The "agglutinative" nature or aspect is not clear many, because they do not understand the "roots", and get confused with Sanskrit roots.
Agglutinative means that words are assembled like Lego structures, out of pre-prepared blocks that snap together in specific ways while retaining their identity.
- However, the sounds may change depending on the context.

Here "san" is a key root. Its "meaning" does not change with the context, but it may sound like "sam" in many cases, BECAUSE it rhymes better that way.

I have given many examples in the post above. More examples were given at: "What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Samsāra)", Jan 09, 2019 (p. 59): What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Samsāra)
I was actually looking for buddhavacana from you wherein the Buddha directly comments on the meaning of the words he is talking about in a way that's congruent to your exegeses. I would particularly like one of the Buddha explaining "san", since you think it's so fundamental to the Dhamma.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Trekmentor
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Trekmentor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:54 pm

Another foolish follower monk of this unskilled novice monk is Handapangoda Niwathapa, the flippant behind an ill-natured movement called "Dharmayai Obai". In the video referenced below, he can be heard talking about the word "saṅgha" and this so called 'san' near 32:54. That description is very close to this madness:
Lal wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:12 am
Sangha san + gha gha is to remove Those who have removed "san" belong to Sanhga; Nobles or Ariyas, but usu. include bhikkhus
Here's a paragraph from AN 5.2.1.8 Licchavikumārakasuttaṃ to test the meaning:

"Tena kho pana samayena sambahulā licchavikumārakā sajjāni dhanūni ādāya kukkurasaṅghaparivutā mahāvane anucaṅkamamānā anuvicaramānā addasu bhagavantaṃ aññatarasmiṃ rukkhamūle nisinnaṃ; disvāna sajjāni dhanūni nikkhipitvā kukkurasaṅghaṃ ekamantaṃ uyyojetvā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṃsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ abhivādetvā tuṇhībhūtā tuṇhībhūtā pañjalikā bhagavantaṃ payirupāsanti."

That paragraph has the words "kukkurasaṅghaparivutā" and "kukkurasaṅghaṃ". They are associated with the meaning "a group of dogs". As per this foolish monk's interpretations, the meaning of those words are to be linked to a mad idea: enlightened dogs.

Here is a link to an article in Sinhala that I wrote a few weeks ago about it:

"හඳපාන්ගොඩ නිවාතාප විසින් බල්ලන් පූජිත වේ!"

Link to the video mentioned above:

Image
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

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Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:45 pm

I was actually looking for buddhavacana from you wherein the Buddha directly comments on the meaning of the words he is talking about in a way that's congruent to your exegeses. I would particularly like one of the Buddha explaining "san", since you think it's so fundamental to the Dhamma.
If you cannot see the buddhavacana so clearly explained, there is nothing else I can do.
The Buddha did not spell out "1 plus 1 equals 2" either.

Of course, the Buddha himself was not able to convince many people at that time.
- Some will understand, some will not. That is just the way it is.

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