Thank you for mentioning me in your post. However, the core Dhamma is obviously not found in obscure hidden suttas. The Buddha identified craving as the cause for suffering. As for vinnana, it appears to be a cause for wisdom & liberation. Whatever is written in Snp 3.12, it seems obvious you have misinterpreted it.Lal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:54 am @[name redacted by admin], @robertk, @SarathW, @DooDoot, @Dhammanando:
The real nature of viññāna as cause for suffering is clearly stated in the “Dvayatānupassanāsutta (Sutta Nipata 3.12)“:
“Yaṃ kiñci dukkhaṃ sambhoti,
Sabbaṃ viññāṇapaccayā;
Viññāṇassa nirodhena,
Natthi dukkhassa sambhavo“.
Translated: “Whatever suffering that arises, all that arises due to viññāṇa; With the not arising of viññāṇa, there is no existence with suffering“.
Discernment (wisdom) & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It's not possible, having separated them one from the other, to delineate the difference between them. For what one discerns, that one cognizes. What one cognizes, that one discerns.
MN 43
Even excellent Pali grammartarians don't distinguish between the Pali such as words "cause" ("hetu"), 'nidana' ("cause; source") and "paccaya" ("condition"). I think one should be very wary of claims about "synonyms".Lal wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:28 am Dvayatānupassanāsutta (Sutta Nipata 3.12):
“Yaṃ kiñci dukkhaṃ sambhoti,
Sabbaṃ viññāṇapaccayā;
Viññāṇassa nirodhena,
Natthi dukkhassa sambhavo“.
I translate is as: “Whatever suffering that arises, all that arises with viññāṇa as a condition; With "not arising of viññāṇa", there is no existence with suffering“.
How would you translate it?
As for the sutta, consistent with the Dhamma, it identifies "attachment" ("upadhi") as the cause (nidānā) of suffering. The sutta says:
“Upadhinidānā pabhavanti dukkhā,
Ye keci lokasmimanekarūpā;
Yo ve avidvā upadhiṃ karoti,
Punappunaṃ dukkhamupeti mando;
Tasmā pajānaṃ upadhiṃ na kayirā,
Dukkhassa jātippabhavānupassīti.
The manifold stresses
that come into play in the world,
come from acquisition as their cause.
Anyone not knowing [this]
creates acquisition.
The fool, he comes to stress
again & again.
Therefore, discerning [this],
you shouldn't create acquisition
as you contemplate birth
as what brings stress
into play.
The words "hetu"; "nidānā"; "pabhavā"; "samudayā" ; "jātikā"; etc, are not necessarily synonymous with the word "paccaya". Therefore, when Sutta Nipata 3.12 refers to "viññāṇapaccayā", this not necessarily mean "cause".Jātimaraṇasaṃsāraṃ,
ye vajanti punappunaṃ;
Itthabhāvaññathābhāvaṃ,
avijjāyeva sā gati.
Avijjā hāyaṃ mahāmoho,
Yenidaṃ saṃsitaṃ ciraṃ;
Vijjāgatā ca ye sattā,
Na te gacchanti punabbhavanti.
Those who journey the wandering-on
through birth & death, again & again,
in this state here
or anywhere else,
that destination is simply through ignorance.
This ignorance is a great delusion
whereby they have wandered-on
a long, long time.
While beings immersed in clear knowing
don't go to further becoming.
A knife is a good example. A knife is a "condition" ("paccaya") for the act or arising ("samudhaya") of murder but a knife does not "cause" ("hetu") murder. What causes murder is ignorance, craving & attachment.