The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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StormBorn
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:13 am

rajitha7 wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:09 am
- All worldly things are without substance (Anatta).
- Nibbana, on the other hand, has substance (Atta).
“Sabbe sankhara anicca“ - all sankhara cannot be maintained to one’s satisfaction
“Sabbe sankhara dukkha“ - all sankhara eventually lead to dukkha
“Sabbe dhamma anatta“ - all dhamma are without substance at the end
Pure adhamma! This is just twisting the words according to their wrong views.

Pāli: atta = Sinhala: ආත්ම (ātma) = English: self/soul
Pāli: attha = Sinhala: අර්ථ (artha) = English: meaning
Pāli: sāra = Sinhala: සාර (sāra) = English: essence/substance

Therefore, “Sabbe dhammā anattā’’ doesn’t mean “All dhamma are without substance at the end.”

What the below two venerables wrote about the Pure Dhamma is very accurate:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:48 pm
Dhammanando wrote:Conclusion

The Pure Dhamma website offers a variety of revisionist readings of the Pali Suttas based upon the site-owner’s (or his guru’s) claimed re-discovery of supposed hidden meanings of key Pali terms.

These proposed hidden meanings, when not presented merely as bald assertions, are defended by resort to Pali philological analysis. But since the site-owner is demonstrably incompetent in both Indic philology in general and Pali in particular his arguments are undeserving of credence. Rather than leading to the true understanding of the Dhamma via the revelation of higher (but long-concealed) meanings, they lead only to baloney.
Spot-on (as long as by "baloney" you don't mean "Large smooth-textured smoked sausage of beef and veal and pork.") With that, I will bow out of any further discussion about pure dhamma.net It is just a net of views, a trap for the unwary, and it is too time-consuming to correct every error.

I hope the authors will listen to the two of us and take down this website until they are more qualified to write something that is truly helpful to revive the true Dhamma.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

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StormBorn
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:25 am

Ryan95227 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:06 am
also the thing is even though it seems rubbish, their work on satipatthana and alternative definition of anicca seems to have helped me out quiet a lot. It is dissapointing to hear of such stories and statements. Looks like now i have to abandon the vehicle. I still appreciate them for helping me out on the path but i think its time to abandon. Thank you stormborn.
Buddhaṃ saraṇaṃ gacchāmi is evidently safer than "Waharaka saraṇaṃ gacchāmi!" :smile:

Charlatan gurus always come and go claiming that they even know better than the Buddha. That's very normal. Usually people put faith on the wrong teachers, but once they know that they made a mistake, they should be flexible and able enough to abandon it. That's smart rather than just clinging to such gurus making one self a source of entertainment to others. :)
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:02 am

SarathW said:
Direct evidence from the Tipitaka that breath meditation is not Anapana

Agree.
But Anapanasati starts with the breath meditation.
You have apparently not read the second post that I suggested to read.
#2 from that post:

2. According to the Ānāpānassati Sutta (MN 118): “..Ānāpānassati, bhikkhave, bhāvitā bahulīkatā cattāro satipaṭṭhāne paripūreti. Cattāro satipaṭṭhānā bhāvitā bahulīkatā satta bojjhaṅge paripūrenti. Satta bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā bahulīkatā vijjāvimuttiṃ paripūrenti.”

Translated, “..Ānāpānassati, when used (bhāvitā) and used frequently (bahulīkatā), completes (paripūreti) four types of Satipatthāna. Cattāro satipaṭṭhāna, when used and used frequently, completes Sapta Bojjanga. Sapta Bojjanga when used and used frequently, completes the full release (Nibbāna or Arahanthood)”.
Exactly the same statement was made in the Ananda Sutta (SN 54.13). In fact, most of the suttās in Ānāpāna Saṃyutta (SN 54) has that phrase or the phrase: “..“Ānāpānassati, bhikkhave, bhāvitā bahulīkatā mahapphalā hoti mahānisaṃsā“. Here, “mahappalā” (“mahā” + “pala“) means the four Noble stages: Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami, Arahant.

Therefore, it is quite clear that ānāpānassati, by itself, can lead to all the way to the Arahanthood. Thus, one does not need to do “separate vipassanā (insight) meditation AFTER getting to samatha with ānāpānassati” as some suggest.

From the next bullet in that post:

3. The next key question is: “Can breath meditation, by itself, lead to Arahanthood? This is the critical question that needs to contemplated by those who believe that Ānāpānassati means breath meditation.

Nibbāna is removal of greed, hate, ignorance: “rāgakkhayō dōsakkhayō mōhakkhayō idaṃ vuccati nibbānanti“. This verse is in many suttās, for example, in Nibbāna pañhā Sutta (SN 38.1).
If Ānāpānassati means breath meditation, how could keeping the mind on one’s breath by itself REMOVE rāga, dōsa, mōha from one’s mind?

Therefore, this question was addressed in that post. So, can anyone explain how breath meditation, BY ITSELF, lead to Nibbana?

As for the other posts, we can have a discussion on other topics later (By the way, I have addressed them previously too). In any case, let us come to a conclusion on this one first. I will only respond to this topic of Anapanasati for now. This has been the problem all along. When they cannot defend the current topic, they start on other topics.

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budo
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by budo » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:11 pm

Lal wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:02 am

Therefore, this question was addressed in that post. So, can anyone explain how breath meditation, BY ITSELF, lead to Nibbana?

As for the other posts, we can have a discussion on other topics later (By the way, I have addressed them previously too). In any case, let us come to a conclusion on this one first. I will only respond to this topic of Anapanasati for now. This has been the problem all along. When they cannot defend the current topic, they start on other topics.
What do you mean "by itself". The breath is a reflection of the mind, when people are nervous they breathe faster. Furthermore the perception of breath ceases in 4th jhana. The breath is a means to an end, just like the whole path is a means to an end. The whole path does nothing "by itself", but is dependent on other things, just like right concentration is dependent on right virtue. It's called a "fold" because every element of the path is dependent on eachother.

So as the body calms down, so does the mind, and so does the breath, and so does feelings, and so do the hindrances, the stiller and calmer one becomes, the clearer they can investigate reality, like looking through a pond that has calmed down.

The last tetrad of Anapanasati which focuses on impermanence, dispassion, cessation, is the same as the third noble truth:

" And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving."

Which is explained in full detail in Girimananda Sutta AN 10.60 where the Buddha explains the 10 perceptions. The Buddha says those who do not practice the 10 perceptions after Jhana are reborn in heaven and then afterwards in hell, whereas those who view Jhana with the 10 perceptions attain enlightenment.

Lastly, the early chinese agamas also use the word "impermanence" as well, and they are translated from Chinese, not Pali, had you been right about Anicca, then the chinese agamas would use a different word since these scriptures were spread across the world along time ago.. But in the Ānāpānasmṛti Sutra, Rahula also practices the 10 perceptions.

" Now, Rāhula, you must contemplate form as being impermanent.

Certainly, Exalted One, replied Rāhula, form is impermanent.

O Rāhula, the Exalted One went on to say, feeling, perception, formative forces, and consciousness – they are all absolutely impermanent.

So, midway on the spot, Venerable Rāhula returned to the Jetavanavihāra[2], and with robes and alms-bowl, he proceeded to the root of a tree and sat down cross-legged (paryaṅka), straightening body and mind. Fully concentrated and with one-pointedness of mind (cittaikāgratā), he contemplated form, feeling, perception, formative forces, and consciousness as being impermanent. "



And if you read the rest of that Sutra, you will realize that vipassana is an effect that happens after one attains supernormal power.. and it shows how he goes from breathing, to absence of breathing, to calming the mind, to supernomal powers.


Rāhula went to the foot of a tree in the Andhavana[9], sat down cross-legged and straightened body and mind, concentrating on the tip of his nose without letting any redundant (adhika) thoughts arise. Breathing out a long [breath] he was fully aware of it; breathing in a long [breath], he was fully aware of it; breathing out a short [breath] … a cool [breath] … a warm [breath] …, he was fully aware of it. He contemplated the whole bodily [process of] inhaling and exhaling and was fully aware of everything. When there was breathing … and no breathing, he was also fully aware of its absence. In the event of breathing out … breathing in conditioned by the mind, he was again fully aware of it.

Then Rāhula wisely (manasi-kṛ) thus: A mind full of attachment subsequently set free from [all passions] is cleansed (nirmukta) of all that is karmically unwholesome (akuśala). He [entered and] remained in the first absorption (dhyāna) in which there is thinking, deliberation (savitarka, savicāra)[10] and mindfully experiencing joy (prīti) and happiness (sukha).

Upon the cessation of thinking and deliberation, he [realised] perfect inner quiet and perfect concentration (adhyātmam samprasāda, cetasa ekotībhāva)[11]. He [entered and] remained in the second absorption in which there is neither thinking nor deliberation, yet mindfully experiencing joy [born] of concentration (samādhija).

Then perfectly mindful, after the cessation of joy (niṣprītika), while experiencing just that physical well-being (sukhaṁ ca kāyena pratisaṁvedayati)[12] which the Noble Ones experience (upa-labh) with equanimity[13], complete satisfaction (paritoṣa) and mindfulness, he [entered and] remained in the third absorption.

When he had gone beyond (prahāṇa)[14] pleasure and pain and was rid of sorrow, he [entered and] remained in the forth absorption which is free of both suffering and happiness and utterly pure [because of] equanimity and mindfulness.

With the help of this concentration, his mind became utterly pure and was rid of flaws (rajas) and blemished (doṣa), while his body was exceedingly supple (mṛdu). He recognised places from the past and remembered what he had previously done. He vividly (dravyatas) recognised his [former] abodes[15] during incalculable aeons. He also remembered former existences (jāti) – one, two, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, several hundred thousand previous lives, a period of evolution and of destruction [of the world] (vivarta, saṁvartakalpa), innumerable periods of evolution and destruction, hundreds of millions, incalculable aeons. [He remembered:] I was born and had such and such a name, belonged to such and such a lineage, had such and such food, experienced such and such pains and pleasures, had [such and such] long and short life-spans. There I died, here I was reborn; here I died [again] and was reborn there. –

With the help of this concentration, his mind was utterly pure and rid of flaws, blemishes and all fetters (saṁyojana). Furthermore, he [directed his] mind to the knowledge of beings’ coming into existence. With the purified and immaculate ‘divine eye’ (divyacakṣus) he saw [many] kinds of beings – how they are born and how they die. He understood in accordance with fact (yathābhūtam) that [beings] are good-looking, ugly, well-destined or ill-destined – depending respectively on their good and bad behaviour (carita) and deeds (kṛta). [He understood that] on the one hand, there are beings who bodily, vocally and mentally misbehaved, insulted the Noble Ones, held false views, performed actions determined by false views, and who, at the breaking up of the body and after their death, have gone to hell (naraka); that, on the other hand, there are beings who bodily, vocally and mentally behaved well, did not insult the Noble Ones, always held right views, performed actions determined by right views and who, at the breaking up of the body and after death, have gone to a good, a heavenly world (sugati, divyam). This [superknowledge (abhijnā) of his] is called the purified and immaculate ‘divine eye’ [thanks to which he] saw [many] kinds of beings …. [and thanks to which he] understood in accordance with fact that [beings] are good-looking … depending respectively on their good and bad behaviour and deeds.

Moreover, he directed his mind to effect the destruction (kṣaya) of the mind’s malign influences (āsrava). He realised and knew in accordance with fact: This is unsatisfactoriness (duḥkha); he realised and knew in accordance with fact the origin (samudaya)[16] of unsatisfactoriness, its final cessation (duḥkhanirodha) and what has necessarily to be done (avaśyakārya) in order to overcome unsatisfactoriness[17].

By dint of such penetrating insight (vipaśyanā), his mind was freed from the malign influences of desire (kāmāsrava), of becoming (bhava) and of ignorance (avidyā). Having realised [ultimate] freedom (vimukti), he gained the [insight-]knowledge of this freedom and knew in accordance with fact: Birth and death have come to an end, the holy life (brahmacarya) has been lived, what had to be done has been done, and there will be no more coming into existence.

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StormBorn
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:29 pm

Lal wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:02 am
Therefore, it is quite clear that ānāpānassati, by itself, can lead to all the way to the Arahanthood. Thus, one does not need to do “separate vipassanā (insight) meditation AFTER getting to samatha with ānāpānassati” as some suggest.

From the next bullet in that post:

3. The next key question is: “Can breath meditation, by itself, lead to Arahanthood? This is the critical question that needs to contemplated by those who believe that Ānāpānassati means breath meditation.
Your this ānāpānasati =/= breath meditation baloney is due to the "Waharaka NWO" conceit. Which is proven from your website:
  • What is to contemplate: To be mindful to “take in good things (kusala or moral things), and to “discard bad things (akusala or immoral things)”. This is the real meaning of ānāpānasati bhāvana.
  • In the wider sense, āna” includes anything that needs to “taken in” for the betterment of life, and “āpāna” the opposite. For example, we should eat only foods that are good for the body, and stay away from or discard foods that are bad.
  • Nowadays, “āna” is taken to be “breath in” and “āpāna” is taken to be “breath out”; “sati” means mindfulness so, the word “ānāpānasati” is interpreted as “mindfully breathing in and mindfully breathing out”. This is the conventional (or “padaparama“) interpretation of “ānapāna“, and that is only a very narrow use; see the post below that explains these terms.
Breath is a neutral object to begin with, there's no good or bad "thing" about it!
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:48 pm
With that, I will bow out of any further discussion about pure dhamma.net It is just a net of views, a trap for the unwary, and it is too time-consuming to correct every error.
Dhammanando wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:20 am
Like Ven. Pesala I’ll make this my final contribution to this thread. Breaking butterflies on a wheel is boring.
I too will follow these two venerables, and will not read this thread again. If several of @Lal like people join this forum, there might be a name change in order as "Adhamma Wheel". :jumping:
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

kstan1122
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by kstan1122 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 am

StormBorn wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:13 am
rajitha7 wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:09 am
- All worldly things are without substance (Anatta).
- Nibbana, on the other hand, has substance (Atta).
“Sabbe sankhara anicca“ - all sankhara cannot be maintained to one’s satisfaction
“Sabbe sankhara dukkha“ - all sankhara eventually lead to dukkha
“Sabbe dhamma anatta“ - all dhamma are without substance at the end
Pure adhamma! This is just twisting the words according to their wrong views.

Pāli: atta = Sinhala: ආත්ම (ātma) = English: self/soul
Pāli: attha = Sinhala: අර්ථ (artha) = English: meaning
Read this article "The Buddhist Doctrine of Non-Self, and the Problem of the Over-Self by Y. Karunadasa" and you will know why atta and anatta has such meaning.

This article “The Buddhist Doctrine of Non-Self, and the Problem of the Over-Self by Y. Karunadasa” which discuss on the Four Interconnected Senses of atta and/or anatta:

First sense of anattaanatta as no independent existence which no substantial nature of its own [See below SN 44.10 With Ānanda – Ānandasutta sutta]
=> thus giving atta as ultimate truth and anatta as esscenseless (no ultimate truth)
Second sense of anattaanatta as impermanence (void of self) [see Cha-chakka Sutta of the Majjhimanikaya [MN 148]]
Third sense of atta – as agent (a self)
Fourth sense of anattaatta as with control, anatta as without control. [See Culasaccaka Sutta of the Majjhimanikaya [MN 35]]

These four senses of atta and/or anatta are all over the tipitaka and imagine the sutta that you have read that does not apply the correct sense of atta or anatta, then what you read will be a distorted meaning of the sutta.

Read this "SN 44.10 With Ānanda – Ānandasutta" sutta with the correct sense applied, and you will find it more meaningful.
SN 44.10 With Ānanda – Ānandasutta
1.1
Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.
Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṃ sammodi.

1.2
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:
Sammodanīyaṃ kathaṃ sāraṇīyaṃ vītisāretvā ekamantaṃ nisīdi. Ekamantaṃ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṃ etadavoca:

1.3
“Master Gotama, does the self exist absolutely?”
“kiṃ nu kho, bho gotama, atthattā”ti?

1.4
But when he said this, the Buddha kept silent.
Evaṃ vutte, bhagavā tuṇhī ahosi.

1.5
“Then does the self not exist absolutely?”
“Kiṃ pana, bho gotama, natthattā”ti?

1.6
But for a second time the Buddha kept silent.
Dutiyampi kho bhagavā tuṇhī ahosi.

1.7
Then the wanderer Vacchagotta got up from his seat and left.
Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkāmi.

2.1
And then, not long after Vacchagotta had left, Venerable Ānanda said to the Buddha:
Atha kho āyasmā ānando acirapakkante vacchagotte paribbājake bhagavantaṃ etadavoca:

2.2
“Sir, why didn’t you answer Vacchagotta’s question?”
“kiṃ nu kho, bhante, bhagavā vacchagottassa paribbājakassa pañhaṃ puṭṭho na byākāsī”ti?


2.3
“Ānanda, when Vacchagotta asked me whether the self exists absolutely, if I had answered that ‘the self exists absolutely’ I would have been siding with the ascetics and brahmins who are eternalists.
“Ahañcānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa ‘atthattā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘atthattā’ti byākareyyaṃ, ye te, ānanda, samaṇabrāhmaṇā sassatavādā tesametaṃ saddhiṃ abhavissa.
[sassatavāda : [m.] eternalism.]

2.4
When Vacchagotta asked me whether the self does not exist absolutely, if I had answered that ‘the self does not exist absolutely’ I would have been siding with the ascetics and brahmins who are annihilationists.
Ahañcānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa ‘natthattā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘natthattā’ti byākareyyaṃ, ye te, ānanda, samaṇabrāhmaṇā ucchedavādā tesametaṃ saddhiṃ abhavissa.
[ucchedavādī : [m.] one who professes the doctrine of annihilation.]

2.5
When Vacchagotta asked me whether the self exists absolutely, if I had answered that ‘the self exists absolutely’ would that have helped give rise to the knowledge that
Ahañcānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa ‘atthattā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘atthattā’ti byākareyyaṃ, api nu me taṃ, ānanda, anulomaṃ abhavissa ñāṇassa uppādāya:

2.6
all things are anattā (without essences)?”
‘sabbe dhammā anattā’”ti?

2.7
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṃ, bhante”.

2.8
“When Vacchagotta asked me whether the self does not exist absolutely, if I had answered that ‘the self does not exist absolutely’, Vacchagotta—who is already confused—would have got even more confused, thinking:
“Ahañcānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa ‘natthattā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘natthattā’ti byākareyyaṃ, sammūḷhassa, ānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa bhiyyo sammohāya abhavissa:

2.9
‘It seems (ahuvā) to me (me) surely (nūna) that the attā (essences or ultimate truths) that I once had (pubbe) no longer exists (natthī) now (etarahi).’”
‘ahuvā me nūna pubbe attā, so etarahi natthī’”ti.

WorldTraveller
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by WorldTraveller » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:28 am

Surprising to see the endless baloney of the Waharaka cult still continuing here! :rolleye:

Anyway,
kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 am
First sense of anattaanatta as no independent existence which no substantial nature of its own [See below SN 44.10 With Ānanda – Ānandasutta sutta]
=> thus giving atta as ultimate truth and anatta as esscenseless (no ultimate truth)
You quote Y. Karunadasa and then insert your misinterpreted SN 44.10 into it to prove your wrong view: anattā = without essences. Neither Sujato nor Bodhi translations support your wrong view (see here).

Pali > sabbe dhammā anattā
Sujato > all things are not-self
Bodhi > all phenomena are nonself
Wharaka cult > all things are without essences

According to your baloney, kusala or useful mental states such as dhyana also without essence!
kstan1122 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 am
2.6
all things are anattā (without essences)?”
‘sabbe dhammā anattā’”ti?
...
2.9
‘It seems (ahuvā) to me (me) surely (nūna) that the attā (essences or ultimate truths) that I once had (pubbe) no longer exists (natthī) now (etarahi).’”
‘ahuvā me nūna pubbe attā, so etarahi natthī’”ti.
Sometimes I actually wonder, what you guys are on... First you, started with "essences" and by 2.9 it's "ultimate truths".

Even a beginner might see just by reading the suttas you quoted, having no control is an outcome/result of having no self there to control, and it's clearly not a case of non-self=no control. If I am to say, I can't hold a rock because it's heavy. That doesn't mean heavy=can't hold. Inability to hold is a result of being heavy. Same way having no driver in the bus makes a bus unable to control. No control is a result of having no driver.
“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a canonical tradition, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’”
- Kālāma-sutta

kstan1122
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by kstan1122 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:59 am

WorldTraveller wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:28 am

Sometimes I actually wonder, what you guys are on... First you, started with "essences" and by 2.9 it's "ultimate truths".

Even a beginner might see just by reading the suttas you quoted, having no control is an outcome/result of having no self there to control, and it's clearly not a case of non-self=no control. If I am to say, I can't hold a rock because it's heavy. That doesn't mean heavy=can't hold. Inability to hold is a result of being heavy. Same way having no driver in the bus makes a bus unable to control. No control is a result of having no driver.
Do you know what is the true nature of things (yathābhūta)?

Can a "not-self" or "nonself" be the true nature of things?

2600htz
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by 2600htz » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm

Hello:

Come on, let the guy be, all the forum ganging up against Lal its pretty rude.

Regards.

Ryan95227
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Ryan95227 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:14 pm

2600htz wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm
Hello:

Come on, let the guy be, all the forum ganging up against Lal its pretty rude.

Regards.
This is not rude at all in my opinions. We really need to investigate this matter constantly as this is the most important thing one in this rare life time.

Lal
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:39 am

Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:14 am

I see that there is no logical response to my posts on Anapana yet.

Here is a partial summary of what I have discussed at this thread within just 2 months or so (published on Oct. 6 on p. 36). Since then I have discussed the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta and Anapana meditation among others.

As one reads those it will become clear that my explanations have not been refuted on all those topics: vinnana, sanna, paticca samuppada, anicca, anatta, breath and kasina meditations are not in the Tipitaka, why using Sanskrit texts is breaking Vinaya rules, etc.

Citta Vithi explained: October 2, 2018 (p. 35)
Parimukham explained October 5, 2018 (p. 35)
Nibbana meaning explained October 1, 2018 (p. 34)
Nimitta explained September 28, 2018 (p. 33) and September 29, 2018 (p. 34)
“Can or Should a Lay Follower Eliminate Sensual Desires?” published September 26, 2018 (p. 33).
“Kamma vipaka cannot be conjectured about” commented on September 25, 2018 (p. 33).
“Sankhāra – What It Really Means” published September 24, 2018 (p. 33).
“Why I have high respect for Waharaka Thero” commented on September 23, 2018 (p. 33).
Total fabrications about a Waharaka Thero’s desana explained September 22, 2018 (p. 33).
“Vinnana is not contact (phassa)” explained September 21, 2018 (p. 32).
“Amazingly Fast Time Evolution of a Thought (Citta)” explained September 18, 2018 (p. 31).
“Contamination of a citta in nine stages” explained September 19, 2018 (p. 31), September 21, 2018 (p. 32).
“Saññā – What It Really Means” explained September 14, 2018 (p. 31).
Jhanic states explained September 2, 2018 (p. 30), September 9, 2018 (p. 30), and September 12, 2018 (p. 31).
Corrected one mistake I had done inadvertently on September 1, 2018 (p. 30).
“Sabbe Dhamma anatta” explained in two posts on August 30, 2018 (p. 28).
“Problems with Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga” August 29, 2018 (p. 26), August 29, 2018 (p. 27), August 30, 2018 (p. 27).
“Samādhi, Jhāna, Magga Phala – Introduction” explained August 27, 2018 (p. 25).
“Two types of Samma Samadhi” explained in several posts on p. 25.
“Why Sanskrit texts should not used to learn Buddha Dhamma” and that would be breaking Vinaya rules for bhikkhus on August 26, 2018 (p. 24).
“Incorrect Thēravada Interpretations – Historical Timeline” August 25, 2018 (p. 23). Another post on the historical background before that on August 25, 2018 (p. 23).
Post on why kasina and breath meditations are not in Buddha Dhamma (Tipitaka), but added on by Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga: August 23, 2018 (p. 23).
“Two Types of Vinnana – We Have Control Over Kamma Vinnana” explained August 21, 2018 (p. 23).
“Nine Stages of a Thought (Citta)” August 19, 2018 (p. 22).
Post on habits (Pali word “gati”, but gati is more that habits) on August 18, 2018 (p. 22).
Clarification of vinnana on August 17, August 18, 2018 (p. 21).
Paticca Samuppada explained on August 5, 2018 (p. 16) and clarified in in following posts.

There are many posts before that, but I just don’t have time to go through them.

Just making derogatory statements without evidence from the Tipitaka will not get us anywhere, and thus I will not answer those. Yes. Some have bowed out from the discussion at times, come back and bowed out again when they cannot answer.

This is not a debate but an effort to uncover the true and pure Dhamma taught by the Buddha. I will respond only if something worthwhile answering is posted. Buddha Dhamma is self-consistent and it is all there in the Tipitaka. No one will be able to dispute that.

TRobinson465
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Location: United States

Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:34 am

2600htz wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm
Hello:

Come on, let the guy be, all the forum ganging up against Lal its pretty rude.

Regards.
I agree its rude, although to be fair pretty much all of the forum is like this for anything that doesnt fit within mainstream DW doctrine (or as DW ppl would say "the suttas" because their interpretation of the suttas is always right). There's surprisingly very little religious tolerance on here. Its something you just have to learn to accept. forums in general sorta have this culture of suppressing "unorthodox" views on a subject via ganging up unless that forum's moderators dont allow that.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:41 am

TRobinson465 said:
..although to be fair pretty much all of the forum is like this for anything that doesnt fit within mainstream DW doctrine (or as DW ppl would say "the suttas" because their interpretation of the suttas is always right)
My explanations are mostly from the suttas, even though some is from the Abhidhamma and Vinaya Pitaka. It is all in the Tipitaka (the three baskets of Sutta, Vinaya, and Abhidhamma); they are inter-consistent.

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budo
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Location: The world

Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by budo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:49 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:34 am
2600htz wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm
Hello:

Come on, let the guy be, all the forum ganging up against Lal its pretty rude.

Regards.
I agree its rude, although to be fair pretty much all of the forum is like this for anything that doesnt fit within mainstream DW doctrine (or as DW ppl would say "the suttas" because their interpretation of the suttas is always right). There's surprisingly very little religious tolerance on here. Its something you just have to learn to accept. forums in general sorta have this culture of suppressing "unorthodox" views on a subject via ganging up unless that forum's moderators dont allow that.
Well people become more assertive when the person they're questioning / challenging always responds with

- You have not refuted my theory
- I don't have time to explain
- Here are 100 articles you should read (i don't have time, but you have time)
- You cannot uncover true and pure Buddha dhamma
- <insert shaming empty language>


What do you think will happen? All exchanges and interaction must be reciprocal otherwise people lose interest or trust.

rajitha7
Posts: 265
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:17 pm

WorldTraveller wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:28 am
Pali > sabbe dhammā anattā
Sujato > all things are not-self
So plug-in a non-living thing to "things" and see if it make sense isn't it?

It would make sense like this.

"All house hold items have no soul" <- Something along these lines! A Buddha usually emerges to state the non-obvious.
WorldTraveller wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:28 am
According to your baloney, kusala or useful mental states such as dhyana also without essence!
Kusala means shedding bad mind-states.
Jhana means burning off vignana,

They are action words - not phenomena or Dhamma.

Also read this NOW -> http://qr.ae/TUGDBI <- why does this matter?

Atto is a Sinhala word as well. It means "individual". So one who sees phenomena as fruitful (atta) is an "atto".
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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