Afaik this is non existent, it is perfectly well within ToS to deny logic and reject the nature of "proof" let alone "evidence" if one's heart so desire. Buddhism along with logic, evidence, contradition and proof are subjective terms around here and anybody can claim to be a Buddhist and spam their own interpretation in every thread and call people wrong view if they disagree.
The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Ultimately, at the end of the day, there are true facts and non-facts.User1249x wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:26 pmAfaik this is non existent, it is perfectly well within ToS to deny logic and reject the nature of "proof" let alone "evidence" if one's heart so desire. Buddhism along with logic, evidence, contradition and proof are subjective terms around here and anybody can claim to be a Buddhist and spam their own interpretation in every thread and call people wrong view if they disagree.
I can't imagine I would be given the amount of leeway Lal has been given if I started proliferating Mahāyāna here the way that Lal proliferates the Waharaka dispensation, which is at the very least as innovative and alien to Theravāda Buddhism as Mahāyāna.
I don't even really think this is a Theravāda Forum anymore. It's more Buddhist Suttanta modernism than Theravāda at this point. Few people who post here are familiar with any distinctly Theravāda literature, such as their histories, commentaries, etc. The suttas are not 'distinctly Theravāda', however true Buddhavacana they may be.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
-
Trekmentor
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:16 am
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Pure Dhamma site? Is it the site found here: https://puredhamma.net/
The about page in that site shows the name "Lal Ariyaratna Pinnaduwage". Is the user Lal commenting here the person behind that site?
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."
aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings
aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
whynotme said: "You described the process the gandhabba come from this life to next life. So please show where is this information in the Tipitaka?"
The following post was made on Sun Oct 28, 2018 (p.43). I am not going to format the post below, so it would be better to read the original post.
- Please read carefully #9 through #11 below. Those explain the NECESSITY of the gandhabba concept. It also explains why it is has nothing to do with "antarabhava". There are only three bhava : kama bhava, rupa bhava, and arupa bhava. Human gandhabbas are in the human bhava, which belongs to kama bhava.
- Ask questions if not clear. It is extremely important to understand this, since not believing the gandhabba concept is one of the ten miccha ditthi.
To others who commented: Instead of making useless and derogatory comments, how about discussing substantial issues, like my post earlier today and the one below. Can you refute the concept of gandhabba with evidence from the Tipitaka? I have provided ample evidence below. Shutting down free speech is not the solution.
Gandhabba State – Evidence from Tipitaka
Extensive evidence from the Tipitaka is presented that the gandhabba state is a necessary feature of human (and animal) bhava. It is not an antarabhava state (“in between two bhava“). It is within the same human bhava; see, my previous post, "Bhava and Jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein" published yesterday.
- One’s inert physical body is controlled by one’s mental body (gandhabba or manōmaya kaya) that is inside the physical body.
Gandhabba state remains through many successive human births within a given human bhava (which can last many hundreds of years). When a given physical body dies, gandhabba comes out of the dead body. Then the gandhabba has to wait (sometimes many years), before it is pulled into another womb, when a matching one becomes available. Rebirth stories confirm this account.
1. The Buddha has described how three conditions must be satisfied for a conception to occur — including a gandhabba (nominative case is gandhabbō) descending to the womb — in the Mahā Tanhāsankhaya Sutta (Majjhima Nikaya 38): “..Tiṇṇaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, sannipātā gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca na utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca na paccupaṭṭhito hoti, neva tāva gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca na paccupaṭṭhito hoti, neva tāva gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Yato ca kho, bhikkhave, mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca paccupaṭṭhito hoti—evaṃ tiṇṇaṃ sannipātā gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Tamenaṃ, bhikkhave, mātā nava vā dasa vā māse gabbhaṃ kucchinā pariharati mahatā saṃsayena garubhāraṃ..“.
- Here is the English translation from the Sutta Central website (I have slightly modified it): “..Bhikkhus, the descent to the womb takes place through the union of three things. Here, there is the union of the mother and father, but the mother is not in season, and the gandhabba is not present—in this case no descent of an embryo takes place. Here, there is the union of the mother and father, and the mother is in season, but the gandhabba is not present—in this case too no descent of the embryo takes place. But when there is the union of the mother and father, and the mother is in season, and the gandhabba is present, through the union of these three things the descent of the embryo takes place. The mother then carries the embryo in her womb for nine or ten months with much anxiety, as a heavy burden..”.
- Even though the venerable Bhikkhus who manage the Sutta Central website do not believe in the concept of a gandhabba, they have at least correctly translated most of the Pāli verse.
- By the way, the Sutta Central site is a good resource, since not only the Pāli version but also translations into several languages is provided. I encourage everyone to make a contribution to that website in order to maintain that valuable database.
- One just needs to be careful to keep in mind that some key Pāli terms are translated incorrectly there, including anicca as impermanence and anatta as “no-self”.
2. In the Assalāyana Sutta (Majjhima Nikaya 93) , there is more evidence that for conception to occur, a gandhabba needs to descend to the mother’s womb at the right time: within a few days of the union of parents, it is the mother’s season.
- Here, the Buddha explains to Assalayana how the seer Asita Devala questioned seven brahmanā who had the wrong view that they were heirs to Mahā Brahmā. Here are the questions that seer Asita Devala asked:
“Jānanti pana bhonto—yathā gabbhassa avakkanti hotī’ti? “
- “But do you, sirs, know how there is conception in the womb?”
“Jānāma mayaṃ, bho—yathā gabbhassa avakkanti hoti ‘ti. Jānāma mayaṃ, bho – yathā gabbhassa avakkanti hoti. Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca paccupaṭṭhito hoti; evaṃ tiṇṇaṃ sannipātā gabbhassa avakkanti hotī’ti”.
- ‘We do know, sir, how there is conception. There is coitus of the parents, it is the mother’s season, and a gandhabba is present; it is on the conjunction of these three things that there is conception.’
“Jānanti pana bhonto—taggha so gandhabbo khattiyo vā brāhmaṇo vā vesso vā suddo vā’ti?“.
- “But do you, sirs, know whether that gandhabba is a noble or brahman or merchant or worker?”
“Na mayaṃ, bho, jānāma—taggha so gandhabbo khattiyo vā brāhmaṇo vā vesso vā suddo vā’ti“.
- “We do not know, sir, whether that gandhabba is a noble or a brahman or a merchant or a worker.”
Therefore, it is clear that the concept of a gandhabba was accepted even by other yōgis at Buddha’s time.
3. In the Maha Nidana Sutta (Digha Nikaya 15): “..Viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpan’ti iti kho panetaṃ vuttaṃ, tadānanda, imināpetaṃ pariyāyena veditabbaṃ, yathā viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṃ. Viññāṇañca hi, ānanda, mātukucchismiṃ na okkamissatha, api nu kho nāmarūpaṃ mātukucchismiṃ samuccissathā”ti? “No hetaṃ, bhante”. “Viññāṇañca hi, ānanda, mātukucchismiṃ okkamitvā vokkamissatha, api nu kho nāmarūpaṃ itthattāya abhinibbattissathā”ti? “No hetaṃ, bhante”.
Translated: “..With consciousness as condition there is mentality-materiality (nāmarūpa). How that is so, Ānanda, should be understood in this way: If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would mentality-materiality (nama rūpa) take shape in the womb?” “Certainly not, venerable sir”. “If, the descended consciousness were to depart, would mentality-materiality be generated into this present state of being?” “Certainly not, venerable sir.”
- Here, is it clear that by “a viññana descending to the womb”, the Buddha meant the descend of the manōmaya kaya (gandhabba), not the patisandhi citta. A patisandhi citta cannot come out (depart) of the womb! In #7 below, we will present evidence that viññāna is always accompanied by other four khandhas, including the rupakkhandha (and a gandhabba has all five khandhas).
The Pāli word “Okkanti” is often mistranslated as “rebirth”. But it means the “descend” of an already formed manōmaya kaya (gandhabba). Rebirth happens (and a gandhabba is born) within a thought moment, at the cuit-patisandhi moment; see, “Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description“.
4. In the Kutuhala Sutta (Samyutta Nikaya 44.9), Vacca asked the Buddha, “..Yasmiñca pana, bho gotama, samaye imañca kāyaṃ nikkhipati, satto ca aññataraṃ kāyaṃ anupapanno hoti, imassa pana bhavaṃ gotamo kiṃ upādānasmiṃ paññāpetī”ti? OR “..“And, Master Gotama, when a being has given up this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, what does Master Gotama declare to be its fuel on that occasion?”
The Buddha answered, “..Yasmiṃ kho, vaccha, samaye imañca kāyaṃ nikkhipati, satto ca aññataraṃ kāyaṃ anupapanno hoti, tamahaṃ taṇhūpādānaṃ vadāmi“. OR “..“When, Vaccha, a being has given up this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, I declare that it is fueled by craving”.
- Thus when a gandhabba leaves one physical and is not yet reborn in another body, its life is sustained by tanhā (craving), just like a rupi brahma lives by making use of piti (mental happiness) as food. Both gandhabbas and rupi brahmas have very fine bodies (smaller than an atom in modern science; only a few suddhāshtaka). However, some gandhabbas can inhale odors for food and become relatively more dense.
5. In the Sangiti Sutta (Digha Nikaya 33), it is described how a gandhabba can enter a womb in four ways: “..Catasso gabbhāvakkantiyo. Idhāvuso, ekacco asampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ paṭhamā gabbhāvakkanti. Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ dutiyā gabbhāvakkanti. Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, sampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ tatiyā gabbhāvakkanti. Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, sampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, sampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ catutthā gabbhāvakkanti“.
Translated: “..Four ways of entering the womb. Herein, bhikkhus, one descends into the mother’s womb unknowing, abides there unknowing, departs thence unknowing. This is the first class of conception. Next, another descends deliberately, but abides and departs unknowing. Next another descends and abides deliberately, but departs unknowing. Lastly, another descends, abides and departs knowingly“.
- This is the okkanti (descending of the gandhabba) into the womb (gabbha), as described in the Maha Tanhasankhaya Sutta discussed above.
Almost the same description is also given in the “Sampasādanīya Sutta (Digha Nikaya 28)“.
6. It is a Bodhisattva in the last birth that, “.. descends, abides and departs the womb knowingly”, the fourth way of entering a womb, mentioned above.
In the Mahāpadāna Sutta (Digha Nikaya 14): “..Atha kho, bhikkhave, vipassī bodhisatto tusitā kāyā cavitvā sato sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkami. Ayamettha dhammatā“.
Translated: “..Now Vipassī bodhisattva, bhikkhus, left the Tusita realm and descended into his mother’s womb mindful and knowingly. That is the rule.”
- At the cuti-patisandhi moment in the Tusita realm, the deva died and a human gandhabba was born, who entered the mother’s womb on Earth.
- By the way, this sutta describes in detail the last 7 Buddhas including Buddha Gotama, who have appeared in our cakkāvāta within the past 31 mahā kappa (great aeons). the English translation of the Sutta at Sutta Central provides a useful summary in a table.
However, in this sutta, gabbhāvakkantiyo and okkami are translated incorrectly at Sutta Central.
7. In the Bija Sutta (Samyutta Nikaya 22.54), it is clearly stated that viññāna cannot “travel” without the other four aggregates, including the rupakkhandha: “..Yo, bhikkhave, evaṃ vadeyya: ‘ahamaññatra rūpā aññatra vedanāya aññatra saññāya aññatra saṅkhārehi viññāṇassa āgatiṃ vā gatiṃ vā cutiṃ vā upapattiṃ vā vuddhiṃ vā virūḷhiṃ vā vepullaṃ vā paññāpessāmī’ti, netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati“.
“Bhikkhus, Apart from form, apart from feeling, apart from perception, apart from volitional formations, I will make known the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and rebirth, its growth, increase, and expansion’—that is impossible”.
- Therefore, the descending of a patisandhi viññāna to a womb, MUST be accompanied by all five khanddhas, which is the kammaja kaya of the gandhabba. Viññāna can never be supported without a rūpa; even the brahmas in arupa realms have hadaya vatthu, a suddhāshtaka made of satara mahā bhuta.
8. When a person removes the first seven samyōjana, but the last three samyōjana are still left with him when he dies, then the gandhabba comes out of the dead body, but cannot be born in anywhere in the 31 realms. For a discussion on samyōjana, see, “Dasa Samyōjana – Bonds in Rebirth Process“.
Those first 7 samyōjana include kāma rāga, rūpa rāga, and arūpa rāga. When those three samyōjana are removed, one cannot be reborn in any of the 31 realms in the kāma, rūpa, and arūpa lōka. However, since the last three samyōjana of māna, uddacca, avijjā are not completely removed, that person will not be able to attain Parinibbāna either.
Then “that person” will remain in the gandhabba state until his kammic energy for the human bhava runs out. This is called the “Anatarāpainibbiyāni” state.
- This is described in the “Samyojana Sutta (Anguttara Nikaya 4:131): “..Katamassa, bhikkhave, puggalassa orambhāgiyāni saṃyojanāni pahīnāni, upapattipaṭilābhiyāni saṃyojanāni pahīnāni, bhavapaṭilābhiyāni saṃyojanāni appahīnāni? Antarāparinibbāyissa”.
- It is to be noted that the first 5 samyojanā are called orambhāgiyā saṃyojanā; rūpa rāga and arūpa rāga are collectively called upapattipaṭilābhiyā saṃyojanā, and māna, uddacca, avijjā are collectively called bhavapaṭilābhiyā samyōjana.
9. At the Third Buddhist Council, Moggaliputta tissa Thēro proved that there is no antarābhava in a debate with the Mahayanists. That correct interpretation is in the Kathavatthu of the Tipitaka.
- Most current Thervadins erroneously believe that gandhabba state is an “antarābhava” state. That is not correct; see, “Antarabhava and Gandhabba” and “Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description“.
10. A critical factor that contributes to this erroneous belief that the gandhabba state is an “antarābhava” is the inability to distinguish between bhava and jāti. They erroneously believe that patisandhi takes place in the womb. But it is very clear in the sutta passages above, that the word patisandhi is not used; rather it is okkanti (of the gandhabba).
- A human existence (bhava) could be many hundreds or even thousands of years and many human births (jāti) can take place during that time; see, “Bhava and jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein“.
- In rebirth stories, there is always a “time gap” between successive human births (jāti). They are always separated by several years or at least few years. In between those successive lives, that lifestream lives as a gandhabba, without a physical body.
Even during a given human life (jāti), the gandhabba may come out of the physical body under certain conditions, see, “Manomaya Kaya and Out-of-Body Experience (OBE)“.
- It is the human bhava that is hard to attain (see, “How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm“), but within a given human bhava, there can be many births until the kammic energy for that human bhava runs out. Otherwise, how can one explain all these rebirth stories, where a human is reborn only a few years after dying in the previous human life?
11. I understand the reluctance of many to discard the deeply embedded idea that gandhabba is a Mahāyāna concept. I used to have that wrong view too. It is one of the 10 types of micca ditthi (i.e., the existence of a para loka of the gandhabbas); see my post, "Wrong Views (Miccā Ditthi) – A Simpler Analysis" published on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:23 am. As I have discussed above, many things will be left unexplained and there will be many inconsistencies without it.
- More evidence is in many other posts at puredhamma.net. There are two subsections on gandhabba: “Mental Body – Gandhabba” and “Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya)“.
- One can also use the “Search” box on top right to locate all relevant posts by typing “gandhabba”.
The following post was made on Sun Oct 28, 2018 (p.43). I am not going to format the post below, so it would be better to read the original post.
- Please read carefully #9 through #11 below. Those explain the NECESSITY of the gandhabba concept. It also explains why it is has nothing to do with "antarabhava". There are only three bhava : kama bhava, rupa bhava, and arupa bhava. Human gandhabbas are in the human bhava, which belongs to kama bhava.
- Ask questions if not clear. It is extremely important to understand this, since not believing the gandhabba concept is one of the ten miccha ditthi.
To others who commented: Instead of making useless and derogatory comments, how about discussing substantial issues, like my post earlier today and the one below. Can you refute the concept of gandhabba with evidence from the Tipitaka? I have provided ample evidence below. Shutting down free speech is not the solution.
Gandhabba State – Evidence from Tipitaka
Extensive evidence from the Tipitaka is presented that the gandhabba state is a necessary feature of human (and animal) bhava. It is not an antarabhava state (“in between two bhava“). It is within the same human bhava; see, my previous post, "Bhava and Jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein" published yesterday.
- One’s inert physical body is controlled by one’s mental body (gandhabba or manōmaya kaya) that is inside the physical body.
Gandhabba state remains through many successive human births within a given human bhava (which can last many hundreds of years). When a given physical body dies, gandhabba comes out of the dead body. Then the gandhabba has to wait (sometimes many years), before it is pulled into another womb, when a matching one becomes available. Rebirth stories confirm this account.
1. The Buddha has described how three conditions must be satisfied for a conception to occur — including a gandhabba (nominative case is gandhabbō) descending to the womb — in the Mahā Tanhāsankhaya Sutta (Majjhima Nikaya 38): “..Tiṇṇaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, sannipātā gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca na utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca na paccupaṭṭhito hoti, neva tāva gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca na paccupaṭṭhito hoti, neva tāva gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Yato ca kho, bhikkhave, mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca paccupaṭṭhito hoti—evaṃ tiṇṇaṃ sannipātā gabbhassāvakkanti hoti. Tamenaṃ, bhikkhave, mātā nava vā dasa vā māse gabbhaṃ kucchinā pariharati mahatā saṃsayena garubhāraṃ..“.
- Here is the English translation from the Sutta Central website (I have slightly modified it): “..Bhikkhus, the descent to the womb takes place through the union of three things. Here, there is the union of the mother and father, but the mother is not in season, and the gandhabba is not present—in this case no descent of an embryo takes place. Here, there is the union of the mother and father, and the mother is in season, but the gandhabba is not present—in this case too no descent of the embryo takes place. But when there is the union of the mother and father, and the mother is in season, and the gandhabba is present, through the union of these three things the descent of the embryo takes place. The mother then carries the embryo in her womb for nine or ten months with much anxiety, as a heavy burden..”.
- Even though the venerable Bhikkhus who manage the Sutta Central website do not believe in the concept of a gandhabba, they have at least correctly translated most of the Pāli verse.
- By the way, the Sutta Central site is a good resource, since not only the Pāli version but also translations into several languages is provided. I encourage everyone to make a contribution to that website in order to maintain that valuable database.
- One just needs to be careful to keep in mind that some key Pāli terms are translated incorrectly there, including anicca as impermanence and anatta as “no-self”.
2. In the Assalāyana Sutta (Majjhima Nikaya 93) , there is more evidence that for conception to occur, a gandhabba needs to descend to the mother’s womb at the right time: within a few days of the union of parents, it is the mother’s season.
- Here, the Buddha explains to Assalayana how the seer Asita Devala questioned seven brahmanā who had the wrong view that they were heirs to Mahā Brahmā. Here are the questions that seer Asita Devala asked:
“Jānanti pana bhonto—yathā gabbhassa avakkanti hotī’ti? “
- “But do you, sirs, know how there is conception in the womb?”
“Jānāma mayaṃ, bho—yathā gabbhassa avakkanti hoti ‘ti. Jānāma mayaṃ, bho – yathā gabbhassa avakkanti hoti. Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca paccupaṭṭhito hoti; evaṃ tiṇṇaṃ sannipātā gabbhassa avakkanti hotī’ti”.
- ‘We do know, sir, how there is conception. There is coitus of the parents, it is the mother’s season, and a gandhabba is present; it is on the conjunction of these three things that there is conception.’
“Jānanti pana bhonto—taggha so gandhabbo khattiyo vā brāhmaṇo vā vesso vā suddo vā’ti?“.
- “But do you, sirs, know whether that gandhabba is a noble or brahman or merchant or worker?”
“Na mayaṃ, bho, jānāma—taggha so gandhabbo khattiyo vā brāhmaṇo vā vesso vā suddo vā’ti“.
- “We do not know, sir, whether that gandhabba is a noble or a brahman or a merchant or a worker.”
Therefore, it is clear that the concept of a gandhabba was accepted even by other yōgis at Buddha’s time.
3. In the Maha Nidana Sutta (Digha Nikaya 15): “..Viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpan’ti iti kho panetaṃ vuttaṃ, tadānanda, imināpetaṃ pariyāyena veditabbaṃ, yathā viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṃ. Viññāṇañca hi, ānanda, mātukucchismiṃ na okkamissatha, api nu kho nāmarūpaṃ mātukucchismiṃ samuccissathā”ti? “No hetaṃ, bhante”. “Viññāṇañca hi, ānanda, mātukucchismiṃ okkamitvā vokkamissatha, api nu kho nāmarūpaṃ itthattāya abhinibbattissathā”ti? “No hetaṃ, bhante”.
Translated: “..With consciousness as condition there is mentality-materiality (nāmarūpa). How that is so, Ānanda, should be understood in this way: If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would mentality-materiality (nama rūpa) take shape in the womb?” “Certainly not, venerable sir”. “If, the descended consciousness were to depart, would mentality-materiality be generated into this present state of being?” “Certainly not, venerable sir.”
- Here, is it clear that by “a viññana descending to the womb”, the Buddha meant the descend of the manōmaya kaya (gandhabba), not the patisandhi citta. A patisandhi citta cannot come out (depart) of the womb! In #7 below, we will present evidence that viññāna is always accompanied by other four khandhas, including the rupakkhandha (and a gandhabba has all five khandhas).
The Pāli word “Okkanti” is often mistranslated as “rebirth”. But it means the “descend” of an already formed manōmaya kaya (gandhabba). Rebirth happens (and a gandhabba is born) within a thought moment, at the cuit-patisandhi moment; see, “Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description“.
4. In the Kutuhala Sutta (Samyutta Nikaya 44.9), Vacca asked the Buddha, “..Yasmiñca pana, bho gotama, samaye imañca kāyaṃ nikkhipati, satto ca aññataraṃ kāyaṃ anupapanno hoti, imassa pana bhavaṃ gotamo kiṃ upādānasmiṃ paññāpetī”ti? OR “..“And, Master Gotama, when a being has given up this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, what does Master Gotama declare to be its fuel on that occasion?”
The Buddha answered, “..Yasmiṃ kho, vaccha, samaye imañca kāyaṃ nikkhipati, satto ca aññataraṃ kāyaṃ anupapanno hoti, tamahaṃ taṇhūpādānaṃ vadāmi“. OR “..“When, Vaccha, a being has given up this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, I declare that it is fueled by craving”.
- Thus when a gandhabba leaves one physical and is not yet reborn in another body, its life is sustained by tanhā (craving), just like a rupi brahma lives by making use of piti (mental happiness) as food. Both gandhabbas and rupi brahmas have very fine bodies (smaller than an atom in modern science; only a few suddhāshtaka). However, some gandhabbas can inhale odors for food and become relatively more dense.
5. In the Sangiti Sutta (Digha Nikaya 33), it is described how a gandhabba can enter a womb in four ways: “..Catasso gabbhāvakkantiyo. Idhāvuso, ekacco asampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ paṭhamā gabbhāvakkanti. Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ dutiyā gabbhāvakkanti. Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, sampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ tatiyā gabbhāvakkanti. Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkamati, sampajāno mātukucchismiṃ ṭhāti, sampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṃ catutthā gabbhāvakkanti“.
Translated: “..Four ways of entering the womb. Herein, bhikkhus, one descends into the mother’s womb unknowing, abides there unknowing, departs thence unknowing. This is the first class of conception. Next, another descends deliberately, but abides and departs unknowing. Next another descends and abides deliberately, but departs unknowing. Lastly, another descends, abides and departs knowingly“.
- This is the okkanti (descending of the gandhabba) into the womb (gabbha), as described in the Maha Tanhasankhaya Sutta discussed above.
Almost the same description is also given in the “Sampasādanīya Sutta (Digha Nikaya 28)“.
6. It is a Bodhisattva in the last birth that, “.. descends, abides and departs the womb knowingly”, the fourth way of entering a womb, mentioned above.
In the Mahāpadāna Sutta (Digha Nikaya 14): “..Atha kho, bhikkhave, vipassī bodhisatto tusitā kāyā cavitvā sato sampajāno mātukucchiṃ okkami. Ayamettha dhammatā“.
Translated: “..Now Vipassī bodhisattva, bhikkhus, left the Tusita realm and descended into his mother’s womb mindful and knowingly. That is the rule.”
- At the cuti-patisandhi moment in the Tusita realm, the deva died and a human gandhabba was born, who entered the mother’s womb on Earth.
- By the way, this sutta describes in detail the last 7 Buddhas including Buddha Gotama, who have appeared in our cakkāvāta within the past 31 mahā kappa (great aeons). the English translation of the Sutta at Sutta Central provides a useful summary in a table.
However, in this sutta, gabbhāvakkantiyo and okkami are translated incorrectly at Sutta Central.
7. In the Bija Sutta (Samyutta Nikaya 22.54), it is clearly stated that viññāna cannot “travel” without the other four aggregates, including the rupakkhandha: “..Yo, bhikkhave, evaṃ vadeyya: ‘ahamaññatra rūpā aññatra vedanāya aññatra saññāya aññatra saṅkhārehi viññāṇassa āgatiṃ vā gatiṃ vā cutiṃ vā upapattiṃ vā vuddhiṃ vā virūḷhiṃ vā vepullaṃ vā paññāpessāmī’ti, netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati“.
“Bhikkhus, Apart from form, apart from feeling, apart from perception, apart from volitional formations, I will make known the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and rebirth, its growth, increase, and expansion’—that is impossible”.
- Therefore, the descending of a patisandhi viññāna to a womb, MUST be accompanied by all five khanddhas, which is the kammaja kaya of the gandhabba. Viññāna can never be supported without a rūpa; even the brahmas in arupa realms have hadaya vatthu, a suddhāshtaka made of satara mahā bhuta.
8. When a person removes the first seven samyōjana, but the last three samyōjana are still left with him when he dies, then the gandhabba comes out of the dead body, but cannot be born in anywhere in the 31 realms. For a discussion on samyōjana, see, “Dasa Samyōjana – Bonds in Rebirth Process“.
Those first 7 samyōjana include kāma rāga, rūpa rāga, and arūpa rāga. When those three samyōjana are removed, one cannot be reborn in any of the 31 realms in the kāma, rūpa, and arūpa lōka. However, since the last three samyōjana of māna, uddacca, avijjā are not completely removed, that person will not be able to attain Parinibbāna either.
Then “that person” will remain in the gandhabba state until his kammic energy for the human bhava runs out. This is called the “Anatarāpainibbiyāni” state.
- This is described in the “Samyojana Sutta (Anguttara Nikaya 4:131): “..Katamassa, bhikkhave, puggalassa orambhāgiyāni saṃyojanāni pahīnāni, upapattipaṭilābhiyāni saṃyojanāni pahīnāni, bhavapaṭilābhiyāni saṃyojanāni appahīnāni? Antarāparinibbāyissa”.
- It is to be noted that the first 5 samyojanā are called orambhāgiyā saṃyojanā; rūpa rāga and arūpa rāga are collectively called upapattipaṭilābhiyā saṃyojanā, and māna, uddacca, avijjā are collectively called bhavapaṭilābhiyā samyōjana.
9. At the Third Buddhist Council, Moggaliputta tissa Thēro proved that there is no antarābhava in a debate with the Mahayanists. That correct interpretation is in the Kathavatthu of the Tipitaka.
- Most current Thervadins erroneously believe that gandhabba state is an “antarābhava” state. That is not correct; see, “Antarabhava and Gandhabba” and “Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description“.
10. A critical factor that contributes to this erroneous belief that the gandhabba state is an “antarābhava” is the inability to distinguish between bhava and jāti. They erroneously believe that patisandhi takes place in the womb. But it is very clear in the sutta passages above, that the word patisandhi is not used; rather it is okkanti (of the gandhabba).
- A human existence (bhava) could be many hundreds or even thousands of years and many human births (jāti) can take place during that time; see, “Bhava and jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein“.
- In rebirth stories, there is always a “time gap” between successive human births (jāti). They are always separated by several years or at least few years. In between those successive lives, that lifestream lives as a gandhabba, without a physical body.
Even during a given human life (jāti), the gandhabba may come out of the physical body under certain conditions, see, “Manomaya Kaya and Out-of-Body Experience (OBE)“.
- It is the human bhava that is hard to attain (see, “How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm“), but within a given human bhava, there can be many births until the kammic energy for that human bhava runs out. Otherwise, how can one explain all these rebirth stories, where a human is reborn only a few years after dying in the previous human life?
11. I understand the reluctance of many to discard the deeply embedded idea that gandhabba is a Mahāyāna concept. I used to have that wrong view too. It is one of the 10 types of micca ditthi (i.e., the existence of a para loka of the gandhabbas); see my post, "Wrong Views (Miccā Ditthi) – A Simpler Analysis" published on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:23 am. As I have discussed above, many things will be left unexplained and there will be many inconsistencies without it.
- More evidence is in many other posts at puredhamma.net. There are two subsections on gandhabba: “Mental Body – Gandhabba” and “Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya)“.
- One can also use the “Search” box on top right to locate all relevant posts by typing “gandhabba”.
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Yes. AFAIK.Trekmentor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:14 pmPure Dhamma site? Is it the site found here: https://puredhamma.net/
The about page in that site shows the name "Lal Ariyaratna Pinnaduwage". Is the user Lal commenting here the person behind that site?
There are a number of users from the Waharaka sect who time and time again try an incursion into SuttaCentral & DhammaWheel, claiming to have a true dhamma that is incongruent to any other practiced contemporary Buddhism, they proliferate these non-facts, such as untenable etymologies and linguistic work, and advocate inaccurate translations of key passages. When users reject their false claims, they cast aspersions on them and imply that they are going to hell for criticizing either a) the true dhamma or b) their now-deceased infallible arhat leader, or at the very least, say things like this:
(quote from SuttaCentral)Sad to say that for those who still think that Pure Dhamma website is a distortion of the tipitaka, that is because that they still have moha followed by dosa and then lobha which is the reasons why they are not able to see the deeper meaning of the true dhamma.
The implication is obviously that members of this infallible sect can see the true dhamma because they no longer have "moha followed by dosa and then lobha". Think of what they are claiming about themselves, collectively.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
I share your sentiment. Imho this forum is a complete mess and has only a handful of people worth speaking to. If these individuals were to stop posting id suggest archiving the whole thing so that one avoids facilitating the making of a complete mockery of the Dhamma.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:37 pmUltimately, at the end of the day, there are true facts and non-facts.User1249x wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:26 pmAfaik this is non existent, it is perfectly well within ToS to deny logic and reject the nature of "proof" let alone "evidence" if one's heart so desire. Buddhism along with logic, evidence, contradition and proof are subjective terms around here and anybody can claim to be a Buddhist and spam their own interpretation in every thread and call people wrong view if they disagree.
I can't imagine I would be given the amount of leeway Lal has been given if I started proliferating Mahāyāna here the way that Lal proliferates the Waharaka dispensation, which is at the very least as innovative and alien to Theravāda Buddhism as Mahāyāna.
I don't even really think this is a Theravāda Forum anymore. It's more Buddhist Suttanta modernism than Theravāda at this point. Few people who post here are familiar with any distinctly Theravāda literature, such as their histories, commentaries, etc. The suttas are not 'distinctly Theravāda', however true Buddhavacana they may be.
-
retrofuturist
- Posts: 27858
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Greetings Lal,
Metta,
Paul.
In the future, if you have need to make reference to an earlier post, can you please provide a link to the post, rather than reproduce it verbatim.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
The goal of Buddhism is to uproot all clinging, not to prove that I am right or I possessed the true Dhamma, or I am noble, this or that,...
If we follow a path and our clinging is increased, then it is not the Buddha's path.
It is better to see if we are clinging to something than to argue this is right and that is wrong. Once we can see that clinging, cut it off. That is the true Buddha's Dhamma - Not all the fancy Pali words or interpretations. They are simply tools for us to see and cut off our own clinging.
If we can explain all of the "difficult" prefixes, "hidden words" or "difficult concepts" but we cannot see what we are clinging to and how to cut them off, then we do not understand Buddha's Dhamma.
Even if we can remember and teach all "true" Buddha's Dhamma, but if we cannot see our own clinging and why we cling to them then we are living in vain.
If our understanding of Buddha's Dhamma cannot help us to cut off our own clinging then it is useless for us no matter how beautiful it is.
If our understanding of Buddha's Dhamma cannot help us to cut off our own clinging then how can we use it to help others to do so?
If we see someone is spreading wrong Dhamma, out of compassion, we can gently point out their mistakes so they can see them. However, if they refused to accept our advice, we should also not cling to that.
If we see someone is receiving wrong Dhamma, out of compassion, we can gently point out the mistakes so they can see them. However, if they refused to accept our advice, we should also not cling to that.
We should also not to cling to our own understandings. We instead should always scrutinize them so we can see their smallest mistakes. The important of knowledge is to help us to reach our goal. If it can help us to do so then it is right for us.
Each person will be fully responsible for his/her own action. There is strict Kamma law in place to correct their mistakes, so it is not our jobs to do so. Why cling to them?
"True" exists because there is "not true". Without "not true", there is no "true", so why bother to wipe out "no true"?
"Bad" will always exist and it will attract ignorance people. That's how it is. Out of compassion, we point the way out. If someone can see the way out, it is good for them. Otherwise, they are what they are. They will need to work out their own kamma.
We should act out of compassion than from "true" or "not true". If we cannot, then just let it be what it is, and always watch out our own speech and action.
If we follow a path and our clinging is increased, then it is not the Buddha's path.
It is better to see if we are clinging to something than to argue this is right and that is wrong. Once we can see that clinging, cut it off. That is the true Buddha's Dhamma - Not all the fancy Pali words or interpretations. They are simply tools for us to see and cut off our own clinging.
If we can explain all of the "difficult" prefixes, "hidden words" or "difficult concepts" but we cannot see what we are clinging to and how to cut them off, then we do not understand Buddha's Dhamma.
Even if we can remember and teach all "true" Buddha's Dhamma, but if we cannot see our own clinging and why we cling to them then we are living in vain.
If our understanding of Buddha's Dhamma cannot help us to cut off our own clinging then it is useless for us no matter how beautiful it is.
If our understanding of Buddha's Dhamma cannot help us to cut off our own clinging then how can we use it to help others to do so?
If we see someone is spreading wrong Dhamma, out of compassion, we can gently point out their mistakes so they can see them. However, if they refused to accept our advice, we should also not cling to that.
If we see someone is receiving wrong Dhamma, out of compassion, we can gently point out the mistakes so they can see them. However, if they refused to accept our advice, we should also not cling to that.
We should also not to cling to our own understandings. We instead should always scrutinize them so we can see their smallest mistakes. The important of knowledge is to help us to reach our goal. If it can help us to do so then it is right for us.
Each person will be fully responsible for his/her own action. There is strict Kamma law in place to correct their mistakes, so it is not our jobs to do so. Why cling to them?
"True" exists because there is "not true". Without "not true", there is no "true", so why bother to wipe out "no true"?
"Bad" will always exist and it will attract ignorance people. That's how it is. Out of compassion, we point the way out. If someone can see the way out, it is good for them. Otherwise, they are what they are. They will need to work out their own kamma.
We should act out of compassion than from "true" or "not true". If we cannot, then just let it be what it is, and always watch out our own speech and action.
One should not be negligent of discernment, should guard the truth, be devoted to relinquishment, and train only for calm - MN 140.
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
I wouldn't go that far, personally.User1249x wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:35 pmI share your sentiment. Imho this forum is a complete mess and has only a handful of people worth speaking to.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:37 pmUltimately, at the end of the day, there are true facts and non-facts.User1249x wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:26 pm
Afaik this is non existent, it is perfectly well within ToS to deny logic and reject the nature of "proof" let alone "evidence" if one's heart so desire. Buddhism along with logic, evidence, contradition and proof are subjective terms around here and anybody can claim to be a Buddhist and spam their own interpretation in every thread and call people wrong view if they disagree.
I can't imagine I would be given the amount of leeway Lal has been given if I started proliferating Mahāyāna here the way that Lal proliferates the Waharaka dispensation, which is at the very least as innovative and alien to Theravāda Buddhism as Mahāyāna.
I don't even really think this is a Theravāda Forum anymore. It's more Buddhist Suttanta modernism than Theravāda at this point. Few people who post here are familiar with any distinctly Theravāda literature, such as their histories, commentaries, etc. The suttas are not 'distinctly Theravāda', however true Buddhavacana they may be.
I just think that rather than being a forum for Theravāda Buddhism, this forum has become a version of SuttaCentral, only without the feminism.
I don't mind this, my own Mahāyāna is much closer to the suttāni than it is to orthodox Theravāda, but at the same time, that tradition needs representation, IMO. Especially on a forum that is allegedly dedicated to it.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Greetings, Paul!
You said: "In the future, if you have need to make reference to an earlier post, can you please provide a link to the post, rather than reproduce it verbatim."
Sorry about that. Will not happen again.
I also realized that my on gandhabba could be a little on the "heavy side" with those sutta references. The following is a simpler account of the basic processes without sutta references. It is also compatible with modern science.
Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception
1. Buddhist explanation of conception is clearly explained in several Tipitaka suttas. Following is a simple account based on those suttas.
- Moral issues regarding abortion and birth control have very clear answers in Buddha Dhamma. In particular, at what stage of pregnancy does a human life first appear in a womb?
- A human bhava can last thousands of years. On the other hand, a physical human body lasts only about 100 years. In between successive births with "human bodies", the gandhabba (mental body) lives in what is called "para lōka". The para lōka co-exists with our human lōka, but we cannot see those fine mental bodies of gandhbbas; see, "Bhava and Jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein".
2. According to the suttas as well as Abhidhamma in the Tipitaka, a new human existence (bhava) does not start in a womb. It starts at the cuit-patisandhi moment when the previous bhava comes to an end. For example, if a deva dies and becomes a human, a human gandhabba (fine mental body) will be formed at the time of death of that deva.
- Then that human gandhabba will have to wait until suitable womb becomes available. By "suitable" it means that the gati (loosely related to character/habits) of the gandhabba have to match those of the parents, especially the mother.
- Gati is an important concept in Buddha Dhamma that has been ignored for a long time; do a search for "gati" on the top right search box to find about "gati".
3. First of all, in order for a gandhabba to enter a womb, there must be a fertilized egg (zygote) in the womb.
- During mother's menstrual cycle, one egg (ovum) is usually released from one of the ovaries and is swept into the funnel-shaped end of one of the fallopian tubes.
- After intercourse with the father, If a sperm penetrates the egg there, fertilization results and the fertilized egg (zygote) moves down the fallopian tube toward the uterus.
- A gandhabba can take hold of that fertilized egg (zygote) any time after its formed.
4. Once a gandhabba merges with the zygote, the cells of the zygote start dividing repeatedly as the zygote moves down the fallopian tube.
- Therefore, conception happens at the time when the life-less zygote becomes "alive" with the merging of the gandhabba. In Buddha Dhamma, conception is called “okkanthi” of a gandhabba or a gandhabba entering a womb.
- The "live zygote" enters the uterus in 3 to 5 days. In the uterus, the cells continue to divide, becoming a hollow ball of cells called a blastocyst. Inside the uterus, the blastocyst implants in the wall of the uterus, where it develops into an embryo attached to a placenta and surrounded by fluid-filled membranes; see, http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/womens ... fetus.html
5. A gandhabba may have to wait for a few days or even a many years until a suitable womb becomes available; at that time, it will be pulled into the womb by the kammic energy, and the gandhabba takes hold of the zygote in the womb that was created by a sperm fertilizing an egg.
- As we saw above, Nature automatically matches the "gati" the parents (we can say that matching the zygote that was formed by the union of the mother and father), and a "matching" gandhabba will be "pulled in" by the kammic energy.
- However, gandhabba concept is different from the concept of a "soul". A gandhabba will keep changing during its lifetime. Furthermore, it will make a drastic change when the lifetime of the human bhava comes to an end.
- This “human gandhabba” has a very fine body and thus cannot be seen.
6. The death of a physical body of a human does not mean its existence as a human has ended. If there is remaining "kammic energy" for the human bhava left, the mental body (gandhabba) will come of the dead physical body and will wait for another suitable womb.
- However, if the “kammic energy for the present human bhava” is exhausted at the time of death, then the transition to the next “bhava” or existence happens at the dying moment. If that new existence is that of a cat, a “cat gandhabba” will emerge from the dead body; of course this gandhabba has a very fine body that cannot be seen.
- Here again the “cat gandhabba” will have to wait until a suitable “cat womb” is ready, and that time it will get of the newly formed “cat zygote” in the womb of the “cat mother”. And a baby cat will be born later on.
- However, except for humans and animals, a gandhabba is not involved in most other realms, for example, in deva and brahma realms.
7. Therefore what happens in a womb (when an egg is fertilized with a sperm) is just to provide the “material basis” (zygote) for the gandhabba to form a physical body.
- The “blueprint” for that physical body (i.e., the gandhabba) was created at the dying moment in the previous life. However, the physical body will also take into account the features of the mother and father via that zygote; see, #3 and #4 above.
- All this is discussed in more detail in several posts, including “Ghost in the Machine – Synonym for the Manomaya Kaya?“, “Manomaya Kaya (Gandhabba) and the Physical Body”, and a more technical description in “Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description“.
8. Now let us see what happens when a condom is used and when birth control pills are used.
- If a condom is used, then obviously an egg will not be able to come to contact with a sperm to form a zygote. Thus there will be no "material basis" or a zygote in the womb for a gandhabba to take hold of.
- If the mother is taking birth control pills, again that will prevent a zygote being formed for a gandhabba to start a new life.
- Thus it is clear that there are no moral issues involved; terminating a life is not involved in either case.
9. On the other hand, once the gandhabba “is in the womb” and has taken possession of the zygote, then there is a living being in the womb.
- Any procedure done after this "real conception" is equivalent to taking a human life; it does not matter whether the procedure was done a month before birth of the baby or just a day after the gandhabba came into the womb.
- The only uncertainty is when the gandhabba takes hold of the zygote after it is formed; this could happen immediately after intercourse or a few days after intercourse. By the time the zygote arrives at the womb, there is a living being there; see #10 and #11 below.
- Thus Buddha Dhamma provides a fairly unambiguous picture of the moral issues involved in the birth control process.
10. It is important to note that science does not have an answer to the question of why all zygotes do not result in pregnancies, and some couples who could not have babies for many years all of a sudden have success. The actual conception time is also controversial; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_ ... ontroversy
- If the mother (and father) are prevented from having a child due to a previous kamma vipaka, the resulting zygote will be a "dud" and thus no gandhabba can "descend to the womb", i.e., pregnancy is not possible.
11. Sometimes the child may have different "gati" compared to the parents. For example, a "fairly moral" couple may have a child with violent character qualities. This is likely to be due to a drastic change of the mindset of the mother during the time the gandhabba "descended" to the womb.
- Furthermore, this is also why mothers who could not get pregnant for years, get pregnant during a time period when the mother most likely had a "personality shift" or a significant change in her mental state.
12. A clear account of the conception process is given in the suttas, and a comprehensive review of those accounts are at: "Gandhabba State – Evidence from Tipitaka".
-A deeper analysis of how the next existence is grasped at death is given in, "Cuti-Patisandhi - An Abhidhamma Description".
You said: "In the future, if you have need to make reference to an earlier post, can you please provide a link to the post, rather than reproduce it verbatim."
Sorry about that. Will not happen again.
I also realized that my on gandhabba could be a little on the "heavy side" with those sutta references. The following is a simpler account of the basic processes without sutta references. It is also compatible with modern science.
Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception
1. Buddhist explanation of conception is clearly explained in several Tipitaka suttas. Following is a simple account based on those suttas.
- Moral issues regarding abortion and birth control have very clear answers in Buddha Dhamma. In particular, at what stage of pregnancy does a human life first appear in a womb?
- A human bhava can last thousands of years. On the other hand, a physical human body lasts only about 100 years. In between successive births with "human bodies", the gandhabba (mental body) lives in what is called "para lōka". The para lōka co-exists with our human lōka, but we cannot see those fine mental bodies of gandhbbas; see, "Bhava and Jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein".
2. According to the suttas as well as Abhidhamma in the Tipitaka, a new human existence (bhava) does not start in a womb. It starts at the cuit-patisandhi moment when the previous bhava comes to an end. For example, if a deva dies and becomes a human, a human gandhabba (fine mental body) will be formed at the time of death of that deva.
- Then that human gandhabba will have to wait until suitable womb becomes available. By "suitable" it means that the gati (loosely related to character/habits) of the gandhabba have to match those of the parents, especially the mother.
- Gati is an important concept in Buddha Dhamma that has been ignored for a long time; do a search for "gati" on the top right search box to find about "gati".
3. First of all, in order for a gandhabba to enter a womb, there must be a fertilized egg (zygote) in the womb.
- During mother's menstrual cycle, one egg (ovum) is usually released from one of the ovaries and is swept into the funnel-shaped end of one of the fallopian tubes.
- After intercourse with the father, If a sperm penetrates the egg there, fertilization results and the fertilized egg (zygote) moves down the fallopian tube toward the uterus.
- A gandhabba can take hold of that fertilized egg (zygote) any time after its formed.
4. Once a gandhabba merges with the zygote, the cells of the zygote start dividing repeatedly as the zygote moves down the fallopian tube.
- Therefore, conception happens at the time when the life-less zygote becomes "alive" with the merging of the gandhabba. In Buddha Dhamma, conception is called “okkanthi” of a gandhabba or a gandhabba entering a womb.
- The "live zygote" enters the uterus in 3 to 5 days. In the uterus, the cells continue to divide, becoming a hollow ball of cells called a blastocyst. Inside the uterus, the blastocyst implants in the wall of the uterus, where it develops into an embryo attached to a placenta and surrounded by fluid-filled membranes; see, http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/womens ... fetus.html
5. A gandhabba may have to wait for a few days or even a many years until a suitable womb becomes available; at that time, it will be pulled into the womb by the kammic energy, and the gandhabba takes hold of the zygote in the womb that was created by a sperm fertilizing an egg.
- As we saw above, Nature automatically matches the "gati" the parents (we can say that matching the zygote that was formed by the union of the mother and father), and a "matching" gandhabba will be "pulled in" by the kammic energy.
- However, gandhabba concept is different from the concept of a "soul". A gandhabba will keep changing during its lifetime. Furthermore, it will make a drastic change when the lifetime of the human bhava comes to an end.
- This “human gandhabba” has a very fine body and thus cannot be seen.
6. The death of a physical body of a human does not mean its existence as a human has ended. If there is remaining "kammic energy" for the human bhava left, the mental body (gandhabba) will come of the dead physical body and will wait for another suitable womb.
- However, if the “kammic energy for the present human bhava” is exhausted at the time of death, then the transition to the next “bhava” or existence happens at the dying moment. If that new existence is that of a cat, a “cat gandhabba” will emerge from the dead body; of course this gandhabba has a very fine body that cannot be seen.
- Here again the “cat gandhabba” will have to wait until a suitable “cat womb” is ready, and that time it will get of the newly formed “cat zygote” in the womb of the “cat mother”. And a baby cat will be born later on.
- However, except for humans and animals, a gandhabba is not involved in most other realms, for example, in deva and brahma realms.
7. Therefore what happens in a womb (when an egg is fertilized with a sperm) is just to provide the “material basis” (zygote) for the gandhabba to form a physical body.
- The “blueprint” for that physical body (i.e., the gandhabba) was created at the dying moment in the previous life. However, the physical body will also take into account the features of the mother and father via that zygote; see, #3 and #4 above.
- All this is discussed in more detail in several posts, including “Ghost in the Machine – Synonym for the Manomaya Kaya?“, “Manomaya Kaya (Gandhabba) and the Physical Body”, and a more technical description in “Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description“.
8. Now let us see what happens when a condom is used and when birth control pills are used.
- If a condom is used, then obviously an egg will not be able to come to contact with a sperm to form a zygote. Thus there will be no "material basis" or a zygote in the womb for a gandhabba to take hold of.
- If the mother is taking birth control pills, again that will prevent a zygote being formed for a gandhabba to start a new life.
- Thus it is clear that there are no moral issues involved; terminating a life is not involved in either case.
9. On the other hand, once the gandhabba “is in the womb” and has taken possession of the zygote, then there is a living being in the womb.
- Any procedure done after this "real conception" is equivalent to taking a human life; it does not matter whether the procedure was done a month before birth of the baby or just a day after the gandhabba came into the womb.
- The only uncertainty is when the gandhabba takes hold of the zygote after it is formed; this could happen immediately after intercourse or a few days after intercourse. By the time the zygote arrives at the womb, there is a living being there; see #10 and #11 below.
- Thus Buddha Dhamma provides a fairly unambiguous picture of the moral issues involved in the birth control process.
10. It is important to note that science does not have an answer to the question of why all zygotes do not result in pregnancies, and some couples who could not have babies for many years all of a sudden have success. The actual conception time is also controversial; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_ ... ontroversy
- If the mother (and father) are prevented from having a child due to a previous kamma vipaka, the resulting zygote will be a "dud" and thus no gandhabba can "descend to the womb", i.e., pregnancy is not possible.
11. Sometimes the child may have different "gati" compared to the parents. For example, a "fairly moral" couple may have a child with violent character qualities. This is likely to be due to a drastic change of the mindset of the mother during the time the gandhabba "descended" to the womb.
- Furthermore, this is also why mothers who could not get pregnant for years, get pregnant during a time period when the mother most likely had a "personality shift" or a significant change in her mental state.
12. A clear account of the conception process is given in the suttas, and a comprehensive review of those accounts are at: "Gandhabba State – Evidence from Tipitaka".
-A deeper analysis of how the next existence is grasped at death is given in, "Cuti-Patisandhi - An Abhidhamma Description".
-
Trekmentor
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:16 am
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Lal,
I request you to shut down the Pure Dhamma website found at https://puredhamma.net/. If you want to spread Dhamma in its pure form there, here and in other places, I suggest you to take an approach where you do not go about adding extra ideas, extra concepts, extra theories, extra interpretations, but stick with what is explicitly written in Tipitaka.
Kamal Wickramanayake
http://www.trekmentor.com/kamal
I request you to shut down the Pure Dhamma website found at https://puredhamma.net/. If you want to spread Dhamma in its pure form there, here and in other places, I suggest you to take an approach where you do not go about adding extra ideas, extra concepts, extra theories, extra interpretations, but stick with what is explicitly written in Tipitaka.
Kamal Wickramanayake
http://www.trekmentor.com/kamal
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."
aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings
aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings
-
WorldTraveller
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:07 am
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Totally agreed. That leeway Coëmgenu mentioned is an obvious elephant in the room compared to some (many) other situations. I mean 47 pages of ....!
...they soon began writing their own ideas on the hero’s signpost claiming that the original instructions were incomplete. As time passed, the signposts proliferated, promoting more distorted ideas.
Followers who haven’t seen the oasis can sometimes be seen misleading others, falsely claiming that they have in fact seen or reached the oasis. They appear to be champions at giving guidance on the path. These later guides are also in competition for amassing the most number of followers. The early, simple teachings of the hero have been twisted into complicated organised religions. The behaviours of the so-called followers today show that they have never trod the path taken by the hero, nor they have any interest in doing so. It is a drama enacted by so-called followers and desert beings.
Copied from here.
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Do you know that it is all these extras that there has been many Sotapannas taking roots and many more will be expected to be Sotapannas in the future?Trekmentor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:05 am Lal,
I request you to shut down the Pure Dhamma website found at https://puredhamma.net/. If you want to spread Dhamma in its pure form there, here and in other places, I suggest you to take an approach where you do not go about adding extra ideas, extra concepts, extra theories, extra interpretations, but stick with what is explicitly written in Tipitaka.
Kamal Wickramanayake
http://www.trekmentor.com/kamal
Are you able to shoulder this huge responsibility for your suggestions?
Much metta.
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
I have posted an introductory description of gati in "The Law of Attraction, Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Asavas)" on Oct 25, 2018 (p.43). Here is a more detailed description.
Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control
Introduction
1. One’s character (gati) determines one’s future births. The ability to figure that out is called the “nāmarūpa pariccēda ñāna“.
- We will discuss the paticca samuppāda (Dependent Origination) sequence to trace how we make “bhava” OURSELVES, which in turn give rise to jāti (births) not only in future lives but also during this life.
- There is no one else, or even a “super being”, that can either help or hurt you in the long run. One’s destiny is up to oneself. The Buddha said, “attā hi attanō nāthō, kō hi nāthō parōsiyā” or “One is indeed one’s own refuge; how can others be refuge to one?”. Even the Buddha could only teach the way.
What Are Gati?
2. “Gati” is a key word in Buddha Dhamma. There is no perfect English translation but habits, tendencies, and biases convey similar meaning. Gati has a deeper meaning because sometimes one’s samsāric gati (habits and tendencies from previous lives) may lie dormant.
- For example, a teenager may not have a “habit” of drinking, but after a few drinks may get “hooked” easier than others if he had a corresponding gati from past lives.
- Also, I get messages from people who never even paid attention to “Buddhism” getting to samādhi (state of calmness) just reading these posts; that is also a “gati” from past lives. They are likely to have been exposed to Buddha Dhamma in previous lives.
- Most of the time we do inappropriate things (immoral abhisankhāra) because we have a gati or tendency to do so. This is what is embedded in the “avijjā paccayā sankhāra” step most of the time. Our avijjā in such a case is not knowing that we have such gati or knowing about it but does not know why or how to get rid of it.
- As I pointed out in “Sutta – Introduction“, “avijjā paccayā sankhāra” is just a condensed or “uddēsa” version. We need to analyze it (“niddesa” and “patiniddesa“) to get the idea, depending on the context.
3. When we (repeatedly) do such abhisankhāra (thoughts, speech, actions), we build-up a viññāna for it. For example, if someone likes to watch porn, the more one does it, the more that “viññāna for watching porn” will grow. It will be in the subconscious ready to “pop up”. In other words, that “gati” gets more established.
- Then comes “viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa“, i.e., it becomes easier to think about clips from previous views or fantasize about them. Here nāmarūpa are the memories (mental pictures) of past activities or “blueprints” for future plans. It is important to realize that nāmarūpa for patisandhi viññāna will be somewhat different; see, “Akusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada“.
4. Now the next step is hard to resist: “nāmarūpa paccayā salāyatana“. Here salāyatana means not all six senses, but the appropriate one(s) for the activity. Here they are cakkayatana (based on the eye) and manayatana (mind).
- It is important to realize that “āyatana” does not mean the sense faculty like the eye; it is rather “using the sense faculty for this purpose”, for doing abhisankhāra (for watching porn and enjoying it, in this particular example). An Arahant has eyes and can see, but will not use them as “āyatana” to “acquire ‘san‘”.
- Then comes, “salāyatana paccayā phasso“. Here of course it is not just “phassa” but “samphassa“, i.e., generate “san” (according to one’s gati) in the process; see, “Difference between Phassa and Samphassa“.
- Because it is not just “phassa” but “samphassa“, then one generates feelings: “phassa paccayā vēdanā“. For example, an Arahant watching a porn movie will not generate any joyful feelings, because that would only involve “phassa” and NOT “samphassa“.
5. Now comes the last few steps. Because of the sukha vēdanā (in this particular example), one will get attached to it: “vēdanā paccayā tanhā“; see, “Tanha – How We Attach Via Greed, Hate, and Ignorance“.
- And then, “tanhā paccayā upādāna“, i.e., one grasps whole-heartedly because one really enjoys it, and would like to do it again. “Upadana” means one likes to keep it close.
- Thus one makes “bhava” for it; one has plans to do it again, and it is a “reality” or future existence at some point: “upādāna paccayā bhava“.
Connection Between Gati, Bhava, and Jāti
6. As we can see, all this is going in our minds. The bottom line is that we just keep thinking and doing things (also called cultivating sankhāra) that we have become “attached to” or we have formed “gati” for. Each time we go through this series of steps we just make that “bhava” grow stronger.
- Then it becomes easier to be “born in that bhava“, i.e. jāti (pronounced “jāti“). Most people think “jāti” means rebirth; but it is not restricted to rebirth.
- Just like one can be born in a certain realm (animal, human, etc) at death, one can be born in the “drunken state” when one has “bhava to get drunk”. If one makes a “bhava” to watch porn, then each time one does it, it becomes easier the next time to be “born in that bhava“, i.e., to watch again.
- nd it is easy to extend this to any other misdeed. If one forms a habit to drink without control (i.e., “get drunk to the point that one cannot think clearly”), then each time one does it one makes that bhava stronger; if not controlled, one day one could be an alcoholic. And it does not stop in this life. If a strong bhava is formed it can affect future births. In a new birth, one is born to a mother (and to a lesser extent father) with similar gati. Thus an alcoholic in this life is LIKELY to be born to an alcoholic mother if the next birth is in the human realm.
- It must be pointed out that “hateful bhava” for certain things or even for a certain person, also can be carried from life-to-life. There are many mentions in the Tipitaka of how Devadatta clashed with the Buddha (or rather the Bodhisattva) in previous lives.
- One’s physical body will change (most of the time drastically) from life-to-life, but one’s gati, āsāva, and bhava are carried from life-to-life; of course those keep changing all the time too, but significant changes happen when one is human with the most ability to change one’s destiny.
7. Thus “bhava paccayā jāti” applies both in this life and also for future rebirths. This is the difference between “Akusala-Mula Pavutti (or Pravurthi) Paticca Samuppada” and that for patisandhi to a new life: “Akusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada“.
- As explained in #6 above, one’s future births are due to one’s gati. The realization that one’s future births are determined by one’s gati — and the ability to figure out the bhava and jāti (jāthi) according one’s gati — is called “nāmarūpa paricceda ñāna” or “nāmarūpa pariccēda ñāna“. This basically means “rūpa” are according “nama” (literally, one’s body is according to one’s thinking).
What Are Āsāvās (Cravings)?
8. To make the final connection to Nibbāna, we see that one’s gati are intimately connected to one’s āsāvās (cravings). Just like gati, āsāvās are deep-seated and ingrained in one’s lifestream and most can be traced back numerous lives in the past; see, “Gathi (Character), Anusaya (Temptations), and Asava (Cravings)“.
- While there can be an infinite number of gati, there are four basic categories of āsāvās: ditthāsāva, kāmāsāva, bhavāsāva, avijjāsāva; see below.
- This logical connection is clearly shown in the Samma Ditthi sutta. It was Ven. Sariputta who delivered that sutta after being asked by the Buddha to explain “Samma Ditthi” to other bhikkhus on one occasion. He went through the steps of the paticca samuppāda backwards and eventually the bhikkhus asked, “Is there a cause for avijjā?”. He explained that indeed āsāvās contribute to avijjā, and vice versa.
- In fact, as we see in the Abhidhamma section, four of the eight “basic units of matter” in a suddhāshtaka arise due to avijjā and the other four due to tanhā (which arise due to āsāva). Avijjā and tanhā are called “bhava-mūla” for this reason.
9. One way to explain Nibbāna or “complete cooling down” is to say that it is attained by getting rid of all āsāvās. When one follows the Noble Eightfold Path, “āsavakkhaya” is achieved in steps.
- At the Sōtapanna stage, the first component of āsāva or ditthāsāva (craving for various ditthis or wrong worldviews) is removed. This all important component of ditthāsāva is solely due to not knowing the true nature of this world of 31 realms: anicca, dukkha, anatta. Most people carry certain ditthis all their lives, most even coming from previous lives. The most prevalent ditthi is the belief that there is no rebirth process.
- When one truly comprehends that consequences of immoral acts can be much harsher than we normally believe (birth in the apāyās), that itself removes the causes for rebirth in the apāyās.
Connection to the Four Stages of Nibbāna
10. A Sōtapanna would still have the other three āsāvās: kāmāsāva (craving for sense pleasures), bhavāsāva (craving for living somewhere in the 31 realms), and avijjāsāva (cravings due to not knowing anicca, dukkha, anatta fully).
- Kāmāsāva is reduced at the Sakadagami stage and is removed at the Anāgāmi stage.
- Bhavāsāva and avijjāsāva are removed only at the Arahanthood.
- Of course, all four āsāvās keep getting reduced at each stage of Nibbāna. Thus a Sōtapanna, for example, would have reduced the other three āsāvās to some level.
- It is also clear that comprehension of anicca, dukkha, anatta gradually increases at each stage and is complete only at the Arahant stage.
11. It is nice to see the self-consistency, and the fact that one can analyze a given situation in different ways.
- One may have a Ph.D. or one may be able to recite the whole of the Tipitaka; yet one would not be even able to get to the Sōtapanna magga without comprehending anicca, dukkha, anatta to some level.
- Ditthāsava cannot be removed until one is well on the way on the mundane eightfold path, because one’s mind needs to be cleared of the strongest defilements. As I keep saying, this is not about “book knowledge”; it is all about cleansing one’s mind.
- Of course, ditthāsāva gives rise to various gati, and thus removal of such gati is the key to attacking ditthāsāva. The foremost is the tendency to “cling to a certain belief” and not even willing to consider the counter arguments.
- If one has the ditthi that there is no rebirth, one needs to carefully examine the evidence for and against.
- Another is the refusal to believe anything “that cannot be proven” by a “scientific method”. Thus, just over 400 years ago, people looked around and asked “where are those infinite number of universes and infinite number of living beings that the Buddha was talking about?”.
- Even now, science is only aware of a minute fraction of our physical universe, not to mention pretty much nothing about the mind; see, “Dhamma and Science” for details.
12. The bottom line is that whether one will be a human,a deva or an animal in the next life will depend on what kind of gati we develop, and NOT what we wish/pray for. Furthermore, one can become a Sōtapanna in this very life by cultivating the “gati of a Sōtapanna” or “Ariya gati“. The key is to develop Samma Ditthi by learning and comprehending Dhamma (the correct world view).
Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control
Introduction
1. One’s character (gati) determines one’s future births. The ability to figure that out is called the “nāmarūpa pariccēda ñāna“.
- We will discuss the paticca samuppāda (Dependent Origination) sequence to trace how we make “bhava” OURSELVES, which in turn give rise to jāti (births) not only in future lives but also during this life.
- There is no one else, or even a “super being”, that can either help or hurt you in the long run. One’s destiny is up to oneself. The Buddha said, “attā hi attanō nāthō, kō hi nāthō parōsiyā” or “One is indeed one’s own refuge; how can others be refuge to one?”. Even the Buddha could only teach the way.
What Are Gati?
2. “Gati” is a key word in Buddha Dhamma. There is no perfect English translation but habits, tendencies, and biases convey similar meaning. Gati has a deeper meaning because sometimes one’s samsāric gati (habits and tendencies from previous lives) may lie dormant.
- For example, a teenager may not have a “habit” of drinking, but after a few drinks may get “hooked” easier than others if he had a corresponding gati from past lives.
- Also, I get messages from people who never even paid attention to “Buddhism” getting to samādhi (state of calmness) just reading these posts; that is also a “gati” from past lives. They are likely to have been exposed to Buddha Dhamma in previous lives.
- Most of the time we do inappropriate things (immoral abhisankhāra) because we have a gati or tendency to do so. This is what is embedded in the “avijjā paccayā sankhāra” step most of the time. Our avijjā in such a case is not knowing that we have such gati or knowing about it but does not know why or how to get rid of it.
- As I pointed out in “Sutta – Introduction“, “avijjā paccayā sankhāra” is just a condensed or “uddēsa” version. We need to analyze it (“niddesa” and “patiniddesa“) to get the idea, depending on the context.
3. When we (repeatedly) do such abhisankhāra (thoughts, speech, actions), we build-up a viññāna for it. For example, if someone likes to watch porn, the more one does it, the more that “viññāna for watching porn” will grow. It will be in the subconscious ready to “pop up”. In other words, that “gati” gets more established.
- Then comes “viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa“, i.e., it becomes easier to think about clips from previous views or fantasize about them. Here nāmarūpa are the memories (mental pictures) of past activities or “blueprints” for future plans. It is important to realize that nāmarūpa for patisandhi viññāna will be somewhat different; see, “Akusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada“.
4. Now the next step is hard to resist: “nāmarūpa paccayā salāyatana“. Here salāyatana means not all six senses, but the appropriate one(s) for the activity. Here they are cakkayatana (based on the eye) and manayatana (mind).
- It is important to realize that “āyatana” does not mean the sense faculty like the eye; it is rather “using the sense faculty for this purpose”, for doing abhisankhāra (for watching porn and enjoying it, in this particular example). An Arahant has eyes and can see, but will not use them as “āyatana” to “acquire ‘san‘”.
- Then comes, “salāyatana paccayā phasso“. Here of course it is not just “phassa” but “samphassa“, i.e., generate “san” (according to one’s gati) in the process; see, “Difference between Phassa and Samphassa“.
- Because it is not just “phassa” but “samphassa“, then one generates feelings: “phassa paccayā vēdanā“. For example, an Arahant watching a porn movie will not generate any joyful feelings, because that would only involve “phassa” and NOT “samphassa“.
5. Now comes the last few steps. Because of the sukha vēdanā (in this particular example), one will get attached to it: “vēdanā paccayā tanhā“; see, “Tanha – How We Attach Via Greed, Hate, and Ignorance“.
- And then, “tanhā paccayā upādāna“, i.e., one grasps whole-heartedly because one really enjoys it, and would like to do it again. “Upadana” means one likes to keep it close.
- Thus one makes “bhava” for it; one has plans to do it again, and it is a “reality” or future existence at some point: “upādāna paccayā bhava“.
Connection Between Gati, Bhava, and Jāti
6. As we can see, all this is going in our minds. The bottom line is that we just keep thinking and doing things (also called cultivating sankhāra) that we have become “attached to” or we have formed “gati” for. Each time we go through this series of steps we just make that “bhava” grow stronger.
- Then it becomes easier to be “born in that bhava“, i.e. jāti (pronounced “jāti“). Most people think “jāti” means rebirth; but it is not restricted to rebirth.
- Just like one can be born in a certain realm (animal, human, etc) at death, one can be born in the “drunken state” when one has “bhava to get drunk”. If one makes a “bhava” to watch porn, then each time one does it, it becomes easier the next time to be “born in that bhava“, i.e., to watch again.
- nd it is easy to extend this to any other misdeed. If one forms a habit to drink without control (i.e., “get drunk to the point that one cannot think clearly”), then each time one does it one makes that bhava stronger; if not controlled, one day one could be an alcoholic. And it does not stop in this life. If a strong bhava is formed it can affect future births. In a new birth, one is born to a mother (and to a lesser extent father) with similar gati. Thus an alcoholic in this life is LIKELY to be born to an alcoholic mother if the next birth is in the human realm.
- It must be pointed out that “hateful bhava” for certain things or even for a certain person, also can be carried from life-to-life. There are many mentions in the Tipitaka of how Devadatta clashed with the Buddha (or rather the Bodhisattva) in previous lives.
- One’s physical body will change (most of the time drastically) from life-to-life, but one’s gati, āsāva, and bhava are carried from life-to-life; of course those keep changing all the time too, but significant changes happen when one is human with the most ability to change one’s destiny.
7. Thus “bhava paccayā jāti” applies both in this life and also for future rebirths. This is the difference between “Akusala-Mula Pavutti (or Pravurthi) Paticca Samuppada” and that for patisandhi to a new life: “Akusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada“.
- As explained in #6 above, one’s future births are due to one’s gati. The realization that one’s future births are determined by one’s gati — and the ability to figure out the bhava and jāti (jāthi) according one’s gati — is called “nāmarūpa paricceda ñāna” or “nāmarūpa pariccēda ñāna“. This basically means “rūpa” are according “nama” (literally, one’s body is according to one’s thinking).
What Are Āsāvās (Cravings)?
8. To make the final connection to Nibbāna, we see that one’s gati are intimately connected to one’s āsāvās (cravings). Just like gati, āsāvās are deep-seated and ingrained in one’s lifestream and most can be traced back numerous lives in the past; see, “Gathi (Character), Anusaya (Temptations), and Asava (Cravings)“.
- While there can be an infinite number of gati, there are four basic categories of āsāvās: ditthāsāva, kāmāsāva, bhavāsāva, avijjāsāva; see below.
- This logical connection is clearly shown in the Samma Ditthi sutta. It was Ven. Sariputta who delivered that sutta after being asked by the Buddha to explain “Samma Ditthi” to other bhikkhus on one occasion. He went through the steps of the paticca samuppāda backwards and eventually the bhikkhus asked, “Is there a cause for avijjā?”. He explained that indeed āsāvās contribute to avijjā, and vice versa.
- In fact, as we see in the Abhidhamma section, four of the eight “basic units of matter” in a suddhāshtaka arise due to avijjā and the other four due to tanhā (which arise due to āsāva). Avijjā and tanhā are called “bhava-mūla” for this reason.
9. One way to explain Nibbāna or “complete cooling down” is to say that it is attained by getting rid of all āsāvās. When one follows the Noble Eightfold Path, “āsavakkhaya” is achieved in steps.
- At the Sōtapanna stage, the first component of āsāva or ditthāsāva (craving for various ditthis or wrong worldviews) is removed. This all important component of ditthāsāva is solely due to not knowing the true nature of this world of 31 realms: anicca, dukkha, anatta. Most people carry certain ditthis all their lives, most even coming from previous lives. The most prevalent ditthi is the belief that there is no rebirth process.
- When one truly comprehends that consequences of immoral acts can be much harsher than we normally believe (birth in the apāyās), that itself removes the causes for rebirth in the apāyās.
Connection to the Four Stages of Nibbāna
10. A Sōtapanna would still have the other three āsāvās: kāmāsāva (craving for sense pleasures), bhavāsāva (craving for living somewhere in the 31 realms), and avijjāsāva (cravings due to not knowing anicca, dukkha, anatta fully).
- Kāmāsāva is reduced at the Sakadagami stage and is removed at the Anāgāmi stage.
- Bhavāsāva and avijjāsāva are removed only at the Arahanthood.
- Of course, all four āsāvās keep getting reduced at each stage of Nibbāna. Thus a Sōtapanna, for example, would have reduced the other three āsāvās to some level.
- It is also clear that comprehension of anicca, dukkha, anatta gradually increases at each stage and is complete only at the Arahant stage.
11. It is nice to see the self-consistency, and the fact that one can analyze a given situation in different ways.
- One may have a Ph.D. or one may be able to recite the whole of the Tipitaka; yet one would not be even able to get to the Sōtapanna magga without comprehending anicca, dukkha, anatta to some level.
- Ditthāsava cannot be removed until one is well on the way on the mundane eightfold path, because one’s mind needs to be cleared of the strongest defilements. As I keep saying, this is not about “book knowledge”; it is all about cleansing one’s mind.
- Of course, ditthāsāva gives rise to various gati, and thus removal of such gati is the key to attacking ditthāsāva. The foremost is the tendency to “cling to a certain belief” and not even willing to consider the counter arguments.
- If one has the ditthi that there is no rebirth, one needs to carefully examine the evidence for and against.
- Another is the refusal to believe anything “that cannot be proven” by a “scientific method”. Thus, just over 400 years ago, people looked around and asked “where are those infinite number of universes and infinite number of living beings that the Buddha was talking about?”.
- Even now, science is only aware of a minute fraction of our physical universe, not to mention pretty much nothing about the mind; see, “Dhamma and Science” for details.
12. The bottom line is that whether one will be a human,a deva or an animal in the next life will depend on what kind of gati we develop, and NOT what we wish/pray for. Furthermore, one can become a Sōtapanna in this very life by cultivating the “gati of a Sōtapanna” or “Ariya gati“. The key is to develop Samma Ditthi by learning and comprehending Dhamma (the correct world view).
-
Trekmentor
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:16 am
Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero
Lal,
I request you to shut down the Pure Dhamma website found at https://puredhamma.net/. If you want to spread Dhamma in its pure form there, here and in other places, I suggest you to take an approach where you do not go about adding extra ideas, extra concepts, extra theories, extra interpretations, but stick with what is explicitly written in Tipitaka.
Kamal Wickramanayake
http://www.trekmentor.com/kamal
I request you to shut down the Pure Dhamma website found at https://puredhamma.net/. If you want to spread Dhamma in its pure form there, here and in other places, I suggest you to take an approach where you do not go about adding extra ideas, extra concepts, extra theories, extra interpretations, but stick with what is explicitly written in Tipitaka.
Kamal Wickramanayake
http://www.trekmentor.com/kamal
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."
aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings
aDhamma Wheel - aBuddhist forum about the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism
imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings