The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:04 am

Lal wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:47 pm
The above is from the Sutta Central translation of DN2, Sāmañ­ña­phala Sutta.

That fourth jhana has been experienced by many people in recent days, and their descriptions match the above sutta description. The Swedish lady's description matches that too.
If I were going to claim that I had attained the fourth jhāna, I would also make sure that my description of it matched the above sutta description as well. Swedish ladies can do this, make sure the descriptions match, as well as Irish men.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

justindesilva
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by justindesilva » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:53 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:04 am
Lal wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:47 pm
The above is from the Sutta Central translation of DN2, Sāmañ­ña­phala Sutta.

That fourth jhana has been experienced by many people in recent days, and their descriptions match the above sutta description. The Swedish lady's description matches that too.
If I were going to claim that I had attained the fourth jhāna, I would also make sure that my description of it matched the above sutta description as well. Swedish ladies can do this, make sure the descriptions match, as well as Irish men.
At a time when the modern society is used to 2 minutes noodles a quick samadhi is not a wonder. I too watched this expression by a foreign ( european) lady in front of the Lap top carrying ( walasmulle abhaya) priest .
My concern is not discounting her experiences but it may be a pre conceived hallucination . If at all a samadhi is observed then it must be backed by the way of life in Arya ashtanga margaya. A mental feeling expressed to match a sutta is not the only quslification to be reckoned in achieving samadhi. It must be uniform and consistent.
( Here I do not wish to let down the efforts of Walasmulle abaya himi), but the claims of the quick samadhis is questionable. Recently similar experiences in his presence at an Auckland NZ based were shown on utube. Yet some participants are not totally convinced.
I finally again wish to say that sila , samadhi , pragna go hand in hand and those who experience saamadhib should also follow up regular sila ( virtues) at least the five precepts sincerely.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:49 pm

justindesilva wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:53 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:04 am
Lal wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:47 pm
The above is from the Sutta Central translation of DN2, Sāmañ­ña­phala Sutta.

That fourth jhana has been experienced by many people in recent days, and their descriptions match the above sutta description. The Swedish lady's description matches that too.
If I were going to claim that I had attained the fourth jhāna, I would also make sure that my description of it matched the above sutta description as well. Swedish ladies can do this, make sure the descriptions match, as well as Irish men.
At a time when the modern society is used to 2 minutes noodles a quick samadhi is not a wonder. I too watched this expression by a foreign ( european) lady in front of the Lap top carrying ( walasmulle abhaya) priest .
My concern is not discounting her experiences but it may be a pre conceived hallucination . If at all a samadhi is observed then it must be backed by the way of life in Arya ashtanga margaya. A mental feeling expressed to match a sutta is not the only quslification to be reckoned in achieving samadhi. It must be uniform and consistent.
( Here I do not wish to let down the efforts of Walasmulle abaya himi), but the claims of the quick samadhis is questionable. Recently similar experiences in his presence at an Auckland NZ based were shown on utube. Yet some participants are not totally convinced.
I finally again wish to say that sila , samadhi , pragna go hand in hand and those who experience saamadhib should also follow up regular sila ( virtues) at least the five precepts sincerely.
Certainly, I did not intent to draw aspersions to the character of the wonderful Swedish woman who no-doubt had a very profound and empowering experience working with these methods.

My point was this, if you will forgive me a re-phrasing:

I know what the suttāni say about jhāna. If I were to convince myself that I had a jhānic attainment, I have no doubt, because I know some of what the suttāni say about jhāna, that my experience would therefore as a result mirror the contents of those scriptures.

Venerable Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Mahāthera teaches using the suttāni, and terminology & descriptions derived therefrom. It follows that his students and those exposed to his teachings will use similar terminology & descriptions derived therefrom.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:19 am

1. Jhanic states correspond to Brahma realms, and thus are reached via at least SUPPRESSING kama raga (craving for sense pleasures).
The first 4 jhana correspond to the 16 rupavacara Brahma realms. Even to get to the first jhana, one must transcend the kama loka (human realm is in kama loka).
- This is easier to do for those who have been either, (i) born in a Brahma realm in a recent past life), OR (ii) had cultivated jhana in recent human births.
- This is why some of those who are in Ven. Abhaya’s meditation programs get into jhana fairly easily.
- But there will be those who may not be able to get into jhana without a lot of effort.

2. Some of those who attain jhana in those sessions (even those who get to the fourth jhana) may not have attained a magga phala.
- The easiest way to check is to see whether one has REMOVED kama raga; for example, one would not have desire for sense pleasures including sex.
- Even in the first Ariya jhana, kama raga is removed. One is essentially an Anagami if one can get to the first jhana by REMOVING kama raga.
- But only those who have attained jhanas will know whether they have attained Ariya jhana, i.e., whether they have removed kama raga.

3. There could be those who attain even the Arahanthood without any jhana. They are called pannavimutta Arahants.
- I have explained these in detail, with sutta references, at “https://puredhamma.net/living-dhamma/sa ... gga-phala/".

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StormBorn
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:12 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:39 am
Very controversial teaching from Ven. A
He says the men who are involve with protecting and law enforcement of masses may involve with killing and torcher the enemies etc.
Killing and torcher is an unwholesome act however it is less unwholesome due to the wholesome intent.
It appears these law enforcement men will be re-born as world protecting Devas. (Lokapala Deva)
So becoming a law enforcement officer is not that bad as far as you act on right intent. :shrug:

http://www.waharaka.com/deshana/listen. ... d=CD097-33" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is this the same monk that Sri Lankan people regarded as an Arahant? If so, wonder how an Arahant even supporting a Wrong Path? It seems many Sri Lankan so-called ariyas and big name religious figures all unable to escape the extreme nationalism and hate towards the minority races. However, that in no way justifies the killings by the minority Tamils.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:58 pm

I have explained what is meant by viññāna in previous posts. For those who are interested, here is an explanation of saññā:

Saññā – What It Really Means

1. Saññā is normally translated to English as “perception” and sometimes as “recognition”; it is both and more! Saññā has a much deeper and at the same time a simpler meaning.
- Saññā is pronounced “sangnä” and actually gives an encoded meaning in Pali and Sinhala with that pronunciation.
It means “sign” or even closer, “the embedded message”. That latter expresses it well, since it is how one “instantaneously gets the idea of what is meant by an external signal”.

2. When we understand what is meant by Saññā, we can clarify many things including how humans can communicate with beings in other realms via Saññā.
- Saññā is the “universal language”. To give an analogy: if there is a sign that reads, “winding road ahead”, only those who know English can understand what that sign says.
But those universal signs — showing a picture of a winding road — provide the “Saññā” that a road ahead is going to be curvy.
- A second example is holding one’s hand up instead of verbally saying stop; that gives the “Saññā” to anyone that one is being asked to stop.

3. At the very basic level, Saññā means “recognition” of an object or a person or a concept; getting “full comprehension” of what it is AND what it means.
- Whether one says fire in English or “ginna” in Sinhala, or “fue” in French, if a person knows how to associate any of those words with “fire”, that is the Saññā that comes to one’s mind when one hears either the word “fire”, “ginna”, or “fue”.
- But if one does not speak any of those three languages, those words do not mean anything to that person. However, if the following picture is shown, anyone will have the idea that it is about a fire or a flame:

4. Therefore, Saññā is the “full picture that comes to the mind instantaneously”.
- When we think about a fire, that “sense of what a fire is”, is conveyed to the hadaya vatthu (seat of the mind) by the brain.
- Therefore, regardless of the language one speaks in, everyone who has seen a fire generates the same feeling about a fire in one’s mind. This is a key point to contemplate on, and will be valuable in comprehending the “anicca Saññā”.

5. When a baby is growing up, it learns to associate words and pictures with each object, person, concept that it experiences. This requires many parts of the brain. This is why it takes a newborn baby several years to become fully functional in the world.
- So, when a person hears someone yelling “fire”, the brain matches that with a visual of a fire, converts it to the correct “Saññā” of a fire, and transmits that signal to the mind.

6. If the relevant parts of the brain are damaged later in one’s life, one may not be able to recognize one’s surroundings. This is what happens to people with alzheimer’s disease.
-When a person gets old, the brain starts degrading and then again, one’s ability to interact with the external world could become limited.
- If that person dies and the gandhabba is reborn a human again (due to leftover kammic energy of the same human bhava), he/she will not have those limitations any more.

7. Now we move to next level of Saññā where it is more than just recognition. For example, when two people hear the name of a person X, they will have the picture of that person (or “Saññā“) coming to their mind automatically. But not only that, they would register some qualities that they had attached to that person through their interactions with X. One may say. “It is my Dad. I love him so much”. Another would say, “Oh, he is a crook”.
-Then based on that Saññā, each will generate different feelings (vedana) about X. That could lead to generating good or bad thoughts (mano sankhara) automatically. If one keeps thinking about X some more, then one will be consciously generating more thoughts (talking to oneself) about X and may even speak out loud (vaci sankhara). If the feelings get strong, one may generate kaya sankhara (thoughts leading to actions), and, for example run to Dad and give him a hug (or avoid the person perceived to be a crook).
- Therefore, based on the same thought object, different people can get different Saññā and thus can respond differently.

8. In general, how we make decisions about interacting with others or respond to external stimuli depends on our “world views”. This is what is called “ditthi” in Buddha Dhamma.
- When one has wrong world views or ditthis, one could make wrong decisions based on “distorted Saññā“.
When one’s mind is free of greed, hate, and ignorance, it is easier to sort out wrong ditthis. What is meant by greed and hate is obvious. Ignorance here is the ignorance about the message of the Buddha. That message, of course, can be grasped only in stages.
- First is to realize is that one MUST live a moral life and follow that mundane Eightfold Path by abstaining from dasa akusala as much as possible.
- Then it will become easier to cultivate the “anicca Saññā“, start grasping the Tilakkhana, and become a Sōtapanna.

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:06 am

For those who are interested, here is a post on how fast our thoughts can change:

Amazingly Fast Time Evolution of a Thought (Citta)

1. Even though only one word in the English language (“thought”) is used to describe “a unit of cognition” or “a thought”, the Buddha explained that such a “thought” arises as a citta, and goes through nine stages of “contamination” to become viññānakkhandha. What we actually experience is this viññānakkhandha.

However, even after going through the 9 stages it is still called a citta for convenience even in the suttās. So, one needs to pay attention to determine what is meant depending on the context, i.e., where and how any of those 9 words is used.
Some of these terms in the 9 stages are used interchangeably to as “a thought” in many text books and internet sites on Buddhism (e.g., citta, mano, viññāna), and that is NOT correct.

2. I will make this a simple post because it is ESSENTIAL that everyone gets the basic idea of how a thought is “contaminated” within a split second.

It is not possible to stop the contamination of a citta within such a short time. I have seen even some well-known and respected Dhamma teachers say that one can keep a “pabhassara citta” (uncontaminated citta) from being contaminated by making an effort.
I hope this post will make it clear that such a thing is not possible. One’s cittā are contaminated depending on one’s gati and the sense input in question. The key to STOPPING cittā from being contaminated is to change one’s gati over time.
That is done by following the Noble Path, and specifically by practicing the correct Ānapana and Satipatthana bhavana. This will become clear by the end of the post.

Nine Stages of a Thought (Citta)

3. Those nine stages of contamination during the lifetime of the fundamental unit of cognition (within a billionth of a second) are: citta, manō, mānasan, hadayan, pandaran, manō manāyatanam, mana indriyam (or manindriyam), viññāna, viññānakkhandha. A Tipitaka reference is given in the post, “Pabhassara Citta, Radiant Mind, and Bhavanga“.

Amazingly, these 9 steps occur within a split second, and the Buddha said there are billions of citta arising within the blink of an eye. Each citta has three stages: uppada, thiti, bhanga, and these 9 steps occur before it comes to the bhanga or the termination stage.
This may be hard to believe, but we can prove this to be true with the following example.

4. Suppose three people A, B, C are sitting in a small coffee shop. They are all facing the door and person X walks in. Suppose that person X is a close friend of A, worst enemy of B, and that C does not know X at all. We will also assume that all are males.

So, let us see what happens within a split second. A recognizes X as his friend and a smile comes to his face. B recognizes X as his enemy and his face gets darkened.
On the other hand, C’s mind does not register anything about X and X is just another person to him. He immediately goes back to whatever he was doing.

5. This is an example of a “cakkhu viññāna“, a “seeing event”. It is over within a split second, just like taking a photo with a camera takes only a split second, where the image in captured on the screen instantaneously.

However, something very complex happens in a human mind when a “seeing event” happens.
It is critically important to go slow and analyze what happens so that we can see how complex this process is (for a human mind) to capture that “seeing event”. It is much more complex than just recording “a picture” in a camera.

6. Within that split second, A recognizes X as his good friend, and pleasant emotions arise in his mind and he becomes happy. B recognizes X as his worse enemy, and bad emotions arise in his mind and he becomes angry. on the other hand, C just recognizes X as a man or a woman and no emotions arise in him.

We don’t think twice about these observations normally. But if one carefully analyzes what happens, one can easily see that this is an amazingly complex process.
How does the SAME “seeing event” (seeing X) lead to all these very different changes in the minds of three different people? (and the emotions even show up on their faces!)
No one but a Buddha can actually see this fast time evolution of a citta.
The Buddha has analyzed this process in minute detail. We will discuss only the key basic features here.

Three Features of a Seeing Event (Cakkhu Viññāna)

7. The “seeing event” has three basic features:

One definitely gets into an emotional state (pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral, which are called sukha, dukha, and upekkha in Pāli) and that is called vedanā.
One recognizes the object, and that is called saññā.
Based on those two one also generates other mental characteristics such as anger, joy; i.e., other mental factors (cetasika) will also in addition to vedanā and saññā. These are none other than sankhāra.
Of course, this holds for all six types of viññāna.

8. Viññāna can be called the overall sense experience encompassing all those three: vedanā, saññā, sankhāra.

But viññāna can be more than the sum of those three, and that requires another write up. It is not necessary for the current discussion.
We can safely say that viññāna (or more correctly viññānakkhandha) is the overall sense experience.

9. So, we can see that those three people A, B, and C will have three different “states of mind” upon that seeing event.

That “mindset” with a set of vedanā, saññā, and sankhāra is called a viññāna.
Viññāna is the overall sense experience that includes all those. And that takes place within a split second.
There are six types of viññāna corresponding to the six sense faculties.

10. There are several key important basic features can be learned from this simple example.

There is no single entity called “viññāna“. When we hear something a “sōta viññāna” arises, when we taste something a jivhā viññāna arises, etc. All together there are six types viññāna that are associated with the six sense faculties we have: cakkhu (see), sōta (hear), ghāna (smell), jivhā (taste), kāya (touch), and manō (mind).
Any of those will lead to the following outcomes: sukha, dukha, or upekkha vedanā; recognition of what type of picture,sound, etc., it is (saññā); other types of cetasika arising (called sankhāra) depending on the sound heard AND the “nature” of the person (character/habits or gati).
This last one, the “nature” of a person is called that person’s gati (sometimes written as gathi). Each person has a unique (but changing) set of good and bad gati. I am not going to discuss this here, but there are many posts at the website on gati.

Dependence on the “Thought Object”

11. Let us take a different scenario: Let us assume that X is B’s girl friend, who is not in good terms with A; and that C is a young male who has never seen X.

Now, we see that the moods of A and B are reversed. A will be instantaneously unhappy to see X, and B will be happy to X.
Regarding C, the situation could be different than before. If X appears attractive to him, C may instantaneously form a lustful state of mind.

12. So, we see that the type of cakkhu viññāna formed depends on primarily two things: person experiencing it and the sense object in question (it is called an ārammana in Pāli).

In the above two cases, A and B experienced different types of viññāna. But their experiences reversed when the sense object changed.
Even when a person has had no prior contact with the sense object in question (C seeing an attractive woman), lustful viññāna arose in C, due to his “lustful” gati.
If C was an Arahant, C will only generate an upekkha viññāna when seeing the X. An Arahant has removed all gati; one needs to learn about gati to fully understand this point.

13. Now we see that for a given person, there is no permanently set good or bad viññāna. What kind of viññāna arises depends on the gati of the person and the sense object.

We normally call someone a “good person” based on his/her overall character, i.e., if that person displays more “good character” than “bad character” over time. But only an Arahant can be called a “definitely a moral person”, acting 100% morally all the time.
This is a complex subject, but the basic features are those. One really needs to analyze different situations in one’s mind to get these ideas firmly grasped. This is real vipassanā meditation!
One needs to understand how the mind works in order to make progress on the Path. The Buddha said that his Dhamma has never been known to the world, and it is BASED on the MIND. The mind is the most complex entity in the world.

Simple Explanation of the Nine Steps

14. The first stage, citta, is just awareness that comes with the “uncontaminated” vedanā and saññā and five other universal mental factors (cetasika): phassa, cetanā, manasikara, ekaggatā, and jivitindriya. One is just aware that one is alive and is experiencing something.

At the “manō” stage, the mind has “measured” what the object is (මැනීම in Sinhala). For example, whether it is a tree or a human or a bird.
In the next “mānasan” stage, the mind is able to distinguish among different species: say whether it is just a woman or one’s own mother or whether it is a parrot or a humming bird. This is the “pure and complete awareness”: one sees the external world as it really is. An Arahant‘s mind will not be contaminated beyond this stage. This is also called the “pabhassara citta“; it will not lead to rebirth.

15. At the next “hadayan” (හාද වීම in Sinhala) stage, the mind gets attached to the object (or repulsed by it) based on one’s prior experiences and gati.

This attachment gets stronger in the next several stages and by the time gets to the viññāna stage it can get fully “corrupted”.
Finally, it is incorporated to the aggregate of viññāna or the viññānakkhandha. With each thought, the viññānakkhandha grows.

16. One important observation is that C’s mind stopped at the “mānasan” stage in the first example above (this is only partially correct, but we don’t need to get to details here). However, in the second example, it got contaminated.

Of course, an Arahant‘s mind will never get contaminated beyond the “mānasan” stage for ANY sense object.
Specifically: no lobha, dosa, or moha will arise in an Arahant regardless of what the sense input is.

17. Hopefully, the above basic description will clarify how a citta gets contaminated automatically according to one’s personality (gati) and the sense object.

The key point is that we do not have control over those initial citta that arise automatically at the first exposure to the sense object.
However, when we become aware of this initial response, we CAN control our subsequent citta by being mindful. That is the key to Ānapāna and Satipatthāna meditations, and is a different topic. It is discussed in detail at the “Bhāvanā (Meditation)” and “Living Dhamma” and “Paticca Samuppada” sections.

18. The incredibly fast time evolution of a citta is stated in “Aṅguttara Nikāya (1.48)“.

The short sutta says: “Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, aññaṃ ekadhammampi samanupassāmi yaṃ evaṃ lahuparivattaṃ yathayidaṃ cittaṃ. Yāvañcidaṃ, bhikkhave, upamāpi na sukarā yāva lahuparivattaṃ cittan”ti.”

Translated: “I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as citta. It is not easy to find an analogy (a simile) to show how quickly citta can change.”

Modern science says there are many things that occur in the femto-second time scale. That is million billion times per second. So, citta could change faster than that!

19. Finally, another VERY important point is that the six types of viññāna that we just discussed are all VIPĀKA viññāna. Those arise due to past kamma, i.e., as kamma vipāka.

Then there are KAMMA viññāna that we create ourselves; see, “Kamma Viññāna – Link Between Mind and Matter“.
When the Buddha said that we need to stop defiled viññāna from arising, he was referring to the kamma viññāna. We have control over them. We do not have control over vipāka viññāna. They arise AUTOMATICALLY as we discussed above.
This is discussed in “Do I Have “A Mind” That Is Fixed and “Mine”?“: One’s state of mind at a given moment depends on one’s own gati (character and habits) AND the external sense object that is one is exposed to at that time.

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:03 pm

citta, manō, mānasan, hadayan, pandaran, manō manāyatanam, mana indriyam (or manindriyam), viññāna, viññānakkhandha.
Do you find them in the Sutta?
How do you compare this to 17 thought moment in Abhidhamma?
=====================
A complete thought process, occurring through the physical sense doors, is made up of seventeen thought moments (citta kha.na). These are:

A bhava"nga that flows by in a passive state when one of the five physical sense organs comes in contact with its object (atiita bhava"nga).
A bhava"nga that vibrates for one thought moment (bhava"nga calana).
A bhava"nga that cuts off the flow (bhava"nga upaccheda).
A citta that turns towards the object through the sense door that has been stimulated (pañcadvaara-vajjana).
The appropriate sense consciousness; in the case of the eye, for example, eye consciousness (cakkhu viññaa.na).
Next a thought moment — the sampa.ticchana citta — which has the function of receiving the object.
When the object has been received another thought moment, called the santiirana citta, arises, performing the function of investigating the object.
The act (kamma) itself, especially if it was a weighty one.
9 to 15.
The object having been determined, the most important stage from an ethical standpoint follows. This stage, called javana, consists of seven consecutive thought moments all having an identical nature. It is at this stage that good or evil is done, depending on whether the cittas have wholesome or unwholesome roots. Therefore, these javana thought moments have roots and also produce new kamma.
16 and 17.
Following the seventh javana the registering stage occurs, composed of two thought moments called tadaalambane. When the second registering citta has perished, the bhava"nga follows, flowing on until interrupted by another thought process.
These thought moments follow one another in extremely rapid succession; each depends on the previous one and all share the same object. There is no self or soul directing this process. The process occurs so rapidly that mindfulness has to be alert and brisk to recognize at least the determining thought moment — the vottapana — so that one can govern the javana thought moments by wholesome volition.

When the mind-door receives a mind-object, the sequence of events is a little different from that occurring through the physical senses. The mind-door-adverting citta is the same type of citta as the determining moment — the votthapana — that arises in a sensory process. This mind-door-adverting thought moment can cognize an object previously seen, heard, smelt, tasted or touched, thus making memories possible. Since the mind-object here has already been received and investigated, these functions need not be performed again and the mind-door-adverting thought moment gives way immediately to the javanas. These are, again, of great ethical significance. For example, unpleasant words previously heard can suddenly come to mind and, unless proper mindfulness (sammaa sati) is practiced, call up javana cittas rooted in hatred, i.e., unwholesome kamma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... #causality
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:07 pm

ranslated: “I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as citta. It is not easy to find an analogy (a simile) to show how quickly citta can change.”
Good reminder.
Unfortunately, this was eventually translated as billions of thought-moments per second!
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:20 am

citta, manō, mānasan, hadayan, pandaran, manō manāyatanam, mana indriyam (or manindriyam), viññāna, viññānakkhandha.
Do you find them in the Sutta?
This rapid contamination of a citta is explained in the “https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/vb6“, in Section 2.5.1. Akusalacitta : “Tattha katamaṃ saṅ­khā­ra ­pac­cayā viññāṇaṃ? Yaṃ cittaṃ mano mānasaṃ hadayaṃ paṇḍaraṃ mano manāyatanaṃ manindriyaṃ viññāṇaṃ viññā­ṇak­khan­dho tajjā­mano­viñ­ñā­ṇa­dhātu—idaṃ vuccati “saṅ­khā­ra­pac­cayā viññāṇaṃ”.

Those 9 stages are also listed in the original commentary, section 1.3.5.3. Tatiya­catuk­ka­niddesa in https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/ps1.3 of Patisambhidamaggapakarana (or Part I, p. 360 of Buddha Jayanati Tipitaka): “..yam cittan mano mānasan hadayan pandaran manomanayatanan manindriyan viññānan vinnakkhandho..”.
How do you compare this to 17 thought moment in Abhidhamma?
Each citta in a citta vithi with of 17 citta, is contaminated with this fast process. A pure citta at the beginning has only the 7 universal cetasika. Then more and more cetasika are incorporated and the citta is fully contaminated at the vinnana stage. In the final stage of vinnanakkhandha, all past and future vinnana are incorporated and that is what we experience (even then we experience only the cumulative effect of many citta vithi).

This is a very complex process. The Buddha has analyzed the mind in fine detail and it will take a considerable time to learn all these details. They are discussed in detail mostly in the three commentaries included in the Tipitaka: Patisambhidamagga, Petakopadesa, and Nettippakarana.

I was trying to give the basic idea in the above post. That is enough to get a basic idea.

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:17 am

paṇḍaraṃ
Thank you @Lal for the above post.
I can recall Ven WA was talking about this term.
What I can recall is "Pandaram" means something similar to a blacksmith hardening the steel.
I may be wrong.
In Sri Lanka, we use the term "Pannara" to indicate the hardening the steel.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:07 am

Lal wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:20 am
Those 9 stages are also listed in the original commentary, section 1.3.5.3. Tatiya­catuk­ka­niddesa in https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/ps1.3 of Patisambhidamaggapakarana (or Part I, p. 360 of Buddha Jayanati Tipitaka): “..yam cittan mano mānasan hadayan pandaran manomanayatanan manindriyan viññānan vinnakkhandho..”.

[...]

This is a very complex process. The Buddha has analyzed the mind in fine detail and it will take a considerable time to learn all these details. They are discussed in detail mostly in the three commentaries included in the Tipitaka: Patisambhidamagga, Petakopadesa, and Nettippakarana.
No, they're not. The Petakopadesa and Nettippakaraṇa say that citta, mano and viññāṇaṃ are synonyms and doesn't list the other terms at all.

The Paṭisambhidāmagga does mention all of them – just once in the chapter on ānāpānassati. But what little it says offers no support for the Waharaka “nine-stages-in-a-process” theory:
Katamaṃ taṃ cittaṃ? Dīghaṃ assāsavasena viññāṇaṃ cittaṃ. Yaṃ cittaṃ mano mānasaṃ hadayaṃ paṇḍaraṃ mano manāyatanaṃ manindriyaṃ viññāṇaṃ viññāṇakkhandho tajjā manoviññāṇadhātu. Dīghaṃ passāsavasena …pe… passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ assāsavasena … passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ passāsavasena viññāṇaṃ cittaṃ. Yaṃ cittaṃ mano mānasaṃ hadayaṃ paṇḍaraṃ mano mānayatanaṃ manindriyaṃ viññāṇaṃ viññāṇakkhandho tajjā manoviññāṇadhātu: idaṃ cittaṃ.

What is that cognizance? There is cognizance as consciousness due to long in-breaths; ... There is cognizance as consciousness due to short in-breaths; ... [and so on with all the other modes up to] ... There is cognizance as consciousness due to out-breaths tranquillizing the body formation; any cognizance, mind, mentation, heart, lucidity, mind, mind base, mind faculty, consciousness, consciousness aggregate, mind consciousness principle produced by that, is “cognizance.”
(Paṭisam. i. 189-190)

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:29 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:07 am
Lal wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:20 am
Those 9 stages are also listed in the original commentary, section 1.3.5.3. Tatiya­catuk­ka­niddesa in https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/ps1.3 of Patisambhidamaggapakarana (or Part I, p. 360 of Buddha Jayanati Tipitaka): “..yam cittan mano mānasan hadayan pandaran manomanayatanan manindriyan viññānan vinnakkhandho..”.

[...]

This is a very complex process. The Buddha has analyzed the mind in fine detail and it will take a considerable time to learn all these details. They are discussed in detail mostly in the three commentaries included in the Tipitaka: Patisambhidamagga, Petakopadesa, and Nettippakarana.
No, they're not. The Petakopadesa and Nettippakaraṇa say that citta, mano and viññāṇaṃ are synonyms and doesn't list the other terms at all.

The Paṭisambhidāmagga does mention all of them – just once in the chapter on ānāpānassati. But what little it says offers no support for the Waharaka “nine-stages-in-a-process” theory:
Katamaṃ taṃ cittaṃ? Dīghaṃ assāsavasena viññāṇaṃ cittaṃ. Yaṃ cittaṃ mano mānasaṃ hadayaṃ paṇḍaraṃ mano manāyatanaṃ manindriyaṃ viññāṇaṃ viññāṇakkhandho tajjā manoviññāṇadhātu. Dīghaṃ passāsavasena …pe… passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ assāsavasena … passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ passāsavasena viññāṇaṃ cittaṃ. Yaṃ cittaṃ mano mānasaṃ hadayaṃ paṇḍaraṃ mano mānayatanaṃ manindriyaṃ viññāṇaṃ viññāṇakkhandho tajjā manoviññāṇadhātu: idaṃ cittaṃ.

What is that cognizance? There is cognizance as consciousness due to long in-breaths; ... There is cognizance as consciousness due to short in-breaths; ... [and so on with all the other modes up to] ... There is cognizance as consciousness due to out-breaths tranquillizing the body formation; any cognizance, mind, mentation, heart, lucidity, mind, mind base, mind faculty, consciousness, consciousness aggregate, mind consciousness principle produced by that, is “cognizance.”
(Paṭisam. i. 189-190)
Thank you, Bhante.
Could you give us a brief description of what these nine items?
:anjali:
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thang
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by thang » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I have heard from forest and village sangha in Sri Lanka.
The vast majority of sangha's opinion is the following monks are hold strong Micca ditthi.

1. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara
2. Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara
3. Walasmulle Abhaya
4. Pitiduve Siridhamma/ Siri Samanta Bhadra

Many monks and lay people in Sri Lanka have done even 'Adittana Puja's hoping the miccaditti forces to be defeated.

Printing the books of number (2) monk who is the companion of late (1) monk, have been prohibited by a court order. non English link
Number (3) monk has been expelled by his nikaya as well.The notices of Maha Nayaka thero of his nikaya can be seen on this site (not English)

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by StormBorn » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:16 am

thang wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:00 pm
I have heard from forest and village sangha in Sri Lanka.
The vast majority of sangha's opinion is the following monks are hold strong Micca ditthi.

1. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara
2. Meevanapalane Siri Saddhammalankara
3. Walasmulle Abhaya
4. Pitiduve Siridhamma/ Siri Samanta Bhadra

Many monks and lay people in Sri Lanka have done even 'Adittana Puja's hoping the miccaditti forces to be defeated.

Printing the books of number (2) monk who is the companion of late (1) monk, have been prohibited by a court order. non English link
Number (3) monk has been expelled by his nikaya as well.The notices of Maha Nayaka thero of his nikaya can be seen on this site (not English)
Funny, the 2nd link you gave actually from the Mahamewnawa website which is another movement along with their head monk Kiribathgoda Gnanananda that Sri Lankans (surely not all) consider as another miccha ditthi.

Below is a book by a former presidential advisor Bengamuwe Nalaka about the Mahamewnawa movement.
Worms in the Buddhism (Sinhala book): http://www.mediafire.com/file/w468lik7e ... panuwo.pdf
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

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