Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

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SarathW
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Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by SarathW » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:12 pm

Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Is this the support for the story that Buddha's alms bowel went up word the Ganges river?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Sam Vara
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:28 pm

If you are referring to the story immediately before the Buddha's awakening, wasn't this the Neranjara River rather than the Ganges - of which it is a minor tributory?

SarathW
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by SarathW » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:14 pm

wasn't this the Neranjara River
That's right. Thanks.
I am just wondering this is just a natural up flowing of Neranjara river.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

chownah
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by chownah » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:38 am

How far did it go upstream?....a few centimeters?
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Dhammanando
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:39 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:14 pm
wasn't this the Neranjara River
That's right. Thanks.
I am just wondering this is just a natural up flowing of Neranjara river.
Of course not. It's an abbhutadhamma or miracle story. It would hardly have been worth reporting if the dish had just acted normally and floated in the direction one would expect it to float.


.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:29 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:38 am
How far did it go upstream?....a few centimeters?
80 cubits.
But when the Bodhisatta had finished eating that milk-rice, he took the golden vessel, and said: “If I shall be able to-day to become a Buddha, let this pot go up the stream; if not, let it go down the stream!” and he threw it into the water. And it went, in spite of the stream, eighty cubits up the river in the middle of the stream, all the way as quickly as a fleet horse. And diving into a whirlpool it went to the palace of Kāḷa Nāgarāja (the Black Snake King); and striking against the bowls from which the three previous Buddhas had eaten, it made them sound “Killi killi!” and stopped as the lowest of them. Kāḷa, the Snake King, hearing the noise, exclaimed: “Yesterday a Buddha arose, now to-day another has arisen,” and he stood praising him in many hundred stanzas.
(Nidānakathā, tr. Th. Rhys Davids pp. 187-8)

chownah
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by chownah » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:58 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:29 am
chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:38 am
How far did it go upstream?....a few centimeters?
80 cubits.
But when the Bodhisatta had finished eating that milk-rice, he took the golden vessel, and said: “If I shall be able to-day to become a Buddha, let this pot go up the stream; if not, let it go down the stream!” and he threw it into the water. And it went, in spite of the stream, eighty cubits up the river in the middle of the stream, all the way as quickly as a fleet horse. And diving into a whirlpool it went to the palace of Kāḷa Nāgarāja (the Black Snake King); and striking against the bowls from which the three previous Buddhas had eaten, it made them sound “Killi killi!” and stopped as the lowest of them. Kāḷa, the Snake King, hearing the noise, exclaimed: “Yesterday a Buddha arose, now to-day another has arisen,” and he stood praising him in many hundred stanzas.
(Nidānakathā, tr. Th. Rhys Davids pp. 187-8)
Well this explains it very clearly....there is a very large drain under the river and it can be opened and closed from the palace of kala nagaraja. The drain is so large that it not only drains the flow from upstream it also drains the flow from down stream obviously for a distance of at least 80 cubits. Someone opened that drain and the bowl was drawn along with the water moving towards and into the wirlpool created by the water going down the drain.....sort of like a rubber ducky being drawn towards the drain hole when one drains the bathtub.
chownah P.E.

SarathW
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by SarathW » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:42 am

he took the golden vessel, and said: “If I shall be able to-day to become a Buddha, let this pot go up the stream; if not, let it go down the stream!”
Isn't this practicing rites and rituals?
This sounds very un-Buddhist.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:20 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:42 am
Isn't this practicing rites and rituals?
What the Buddha problematised wasn't rites and rituals but misapprehension of them. It's the parāmāsa in sīlabbata-parāmāsa that's the flaw, not the sīla or the vata.

Sīlabbata-parāmāsa would be floating one's dish in the stream thinking: "By this performance there will be attainment of purity for me."
SarathW wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:42 am
This sounds very un-Buddhist.
The power of augury operating via dhammaniyāma, prophetic dreams, earthquakes occurring at pivotally auspicious moments, marvels wrought by saccakiriyās, etc. are all impeccably Buddhist, even if they happen not to find favour with protestant Buddhists of the drearily modernist sort.

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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by binocular » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:39 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:20 am
The power of augury operating via dhammaniyāma, prophetic dreams, earthquakes occurring at pivotally auspicious moments, marvels wrought by saccakiriyās, etc. are all impeccably Buddhist, even if they happen not to find favour with protestant Buddhists of the drearily modernist sort.
In other words, the traditional Buddhist world is far more alive than what some modernist Buddhists give it credit for.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

SarathW
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by SarathW » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:58 pm

even if they happen not to find favour with protestant Buddhists of the drearily modernist sort.
When I was young I used to through coconut to a target to find whether I am going to be first in my class.
That is why I thought this sort of rituals is childish.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

chownah
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by chownah » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:26 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:39 am
Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:20 am
The power of augury operating via dhammaniyāma, prophetic dreams, earthquakes occurring at pivotally auspicious moments, marvels wrought by saccakiriyās, etc. are all impeccably Buddhist, even if they happen not to find favour with protestant Buddhists of the drearily modernist sort.
In other words, the traditional Buddhist world is far more alive than what some modernist Buddhists give it credit for.
Sure.....the traditional buddhist world is full of ghosts of all sorts.....and all sorts of magical things that can help you out in life....my mother in law showed me if on an occasion which honors yourself you receive a certain type of ornate floral assemblage and you receive some money how you can hold the money in your right hand and move it in a circular motion above the floral assemblage and this will bring you more money in your life.......she also warned me not to go down to the river at night because of the ghosts.....
chownah

binocular
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by binocular » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:36 pm

chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:26 pm
Sure.....the traditional buddhist world is full of ghosts of all sorts.....and all sorts of magical things that can help you out in life....my mother in law showed me if on an occasion which honors yourself you receive a certain type of ornate floral assemblage and you receive some money how you can hold the money in your right hand and move it in a circular motion above the floral assemblage and this will bring you more money in your life.......
Which means that one is supposed to have the right attitude toward money, to have a kind of reverence for it; and reverence has to be expressed somehow. Nothing problematic about that.
she also warned me not to go down to the river at night because of the ghosts.....
For example: I have heard that the standard advice for when one is being visited by a ghost is to send it to an accomplished practitioner. I apply it. My father sometimes has nightmares in which he speaks in his sleep. Usually, he's being tormented by someone and he is crying out "Let me go!" I go to his room and I ask the ghost to go to Ajahn Lee, for example. It works. Without waking, my father calms down and goes back to sleep. Otherwise, the nightmares continue and I can't stop them unless I forcibly wake my father up; upon which he is very distressed.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

chownah
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by chownah » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:19 am

binocular wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:36 pm
chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:26 pm
Sure.....the traditional buddhist world is full of ghosts of all sorts.....and all sorts of magical things that can help you out in life....my mother in law showed me if on an occasion which honors yourself you receive a certain type of ornate floral assemblage and you receive some money how you can hold the money in your right hand and move it in a circular motion above the floral assemblage and this will bring you more money in your life.......
Which means that one is supposed to have the right attitude toward money, to have a kind of reverence for it; and reverence has to be expressed somehow. Nothing problematic about that.
It really is remarkable that you seem to think that you understand what my thai mother in law was teaching me and her attitudes toward money.......you must be clairvoyant in the extreme since you don't know who I am or who my thai mother in law was.......but I guess you know better than me..... :buddha2:

chownah

binocular
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Re: Is Ganges river back flow in Varanasi?

Post by binocular » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:44 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:19 am
It really is remarkable that you seem to think that you understand what my thai mother in law was teaching me and her attitudes toward money.......you must be clairvoyant in the extreme since you don't know who I am or who my thai mother in law was.......but I guess you know better than me.....
People who are into science seem to have the most intense penchant for superstition ...
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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