Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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CedarTree
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by CedarTree » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:16 pm

Great question,

Answer yes and no.

I think in some ways it's almost a dialectic between the two. The most important thing we can do though is not water down the Dharma/Dhamma but also allow modernism (depending on how you define it) to help us grow and be more productive and efficient.

Modernism* can grow by learning about Jhana and I think the unconditioned is an excellent subject for metaphysical philosophy :)


Practice, Practice, Practice


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Will
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by Will » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:00 am

The new book by Bhikkhu Thanissaro has a detailed section on wrong view that starts like this:
Wrong views.
Many of the points that the Buddha discussed under mundane right view were unique to him in his time. There is a widespread misunderstanding that he simply picked up his teachings on kamma and rebirth from ancient Indian culture, but this is simply not true. In fact, the Buddha often used the teachings of mundane right view to counter many of the views widespread among his contemporaries.
Of the many forms of wrong view that he rejected in this way, six stand out, both because he argued against them so frequently and because they correspond to wrong views that are still widely held at present: annihilationism, materialism, fatalism, the denial of causality, eternalism, and racism. The Buddha had to counter these views because they either (1) denied the possibility of any path of skillful action leading to the end of suffering, (2) denied the need for such a path, or (3) undermined the motivation needed to stick with the specific path he had discovered and taught.
See chapter III - http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... n0000.html
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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DNS
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by DNS » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:31 am

Will wrote:The new book by Bhikkhu Thanissaro has a detailed section on wrong view that starts like this:
Wrong views.
The Buddha had to counter these views because they either (1) denied the possibility of any path of skillful action leading to the end of suffering, (2) denied the need for such a path, or (3) undermined the motivation needed to stick with the specific path he had discovered and taught.
See chapter III - http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... n0000.html
Good points by the venerable. And that looks like a good book, just published for free access a few days ago. I just downloaded the pdf and see it's 460 pages long! That was quite the accomplishment, mudita to the bhikkhu for his merit.

Warrior_monk1
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by Warrior_monk1 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:39 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Will wrote:The new book by Bhikkhu Thanissaro has a detailed section on wrong view that starts like this:
Wrong views.
The Buddha had to counter these views because they either (1) denied the possibility of any path of skillful action leading to the end of suffering, (2) denied the need for such a path, or (3) undermined the motivation needed to stick with the specific path he had discovered and taught.
See chapter III - http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... n0000.html
Good points by the venerable. And that looks like a good book, just published for free access a few days ago. I just downloaded the pdf and see it's 460 pages long! That was quite the accomplishment, mudita to the bhikkhu for his merit.
It's a free book, right? I do not want to download or anything anymore :P. I rather buy a copy where I can share my love with other people about a book.

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Will
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by Will » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:02 pm

Warrior_monk1:
It's a free book, right? I do not want to download or anything anymore :P. I rather buy a copy where I can share my love with other people about a book.
You have to request the printed book by snail mail:
A paperback copy of this book is available free of charge. To request one, write to: Book Request, Metta Forest Monastery, PO Box 1409, Valley Center, CA 92082 USA.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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dylanj
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by dylanj » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:34 pm

:goodpost:
binocular wrote:
Ripser wrote:Do you believe there can be some sort of reconciliation between traditional Buddhism and the scientific-evolutionary-rationalistic mindset which doesn’t harm the former?
No.
Will Buddhism “without mythology”, in your view, ever be able to constitute a solid worldview on its own?
No.
Or does it need to be constantly supplemented by the Western modern worldview, losing perhaps too much (if not everything worthwhile) in the process?
Yes.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:18 pm

binocular wrote:
chownah wrote:
binocular wrote: If Western science would in fact acknowledge anatta in any meaningful way, then Western science's whole reason to live would fall apart. If "someone is there" only provisionally, then the whole competition, the whole evolutionary struggle for survival is merely an absurdist game that even the most cynical couldn't play.
There are a few neurological studies which lean towards showing that our sense of indentity is a by-product of neural associations and not the driver in the wheel.

I guess these must not constitute meaningful acknowledgement.
Then I'd really like to see you provide a justification for continuing the struggle for survival -- when there's really noone there.
Why do scientists work to provide people with a good education, work qualifications, improve their health, quit drugs, and such -- when there's noone really there?
Answer me that.
Because they are people I suppose? Because if they don't feed themselves their stomachs will hurt, they will get a headache, they will die eventually?

Scientists are not a monolith.

Anil K Seth is a Professor of Cognitive and Computational Neuroscience at the University of Sussex. I just copypasted that from wikipedia. He engages in research. He is a "scientist".

He gives this talk, "secular Buddhism" if I have ever heard it, one salient feature is that it is heavy on metaphysics and light on morality:

"Scientists" are not a monolith, nor is "science", so asking "why do scientists do X" and expecting a single answer doesn't make a lot of sense.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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binocular
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by binocular » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:30 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
binocular wrote:Then I'd really like to see you provide a justification for continuing the struggle for survival -- when there's really noone there.
Why do scientists work to provide people with a good education, work qualifications, improve their health, quit drugs, and such -- when there's noone really there?
Answer me that.
Because they are people I suppose? Because if they don't feed themselves their stomachs will hurt, they will get a headache, they will die eventually?
Ah, yes, they have to spend their time somehow ...
Scientists are not a monolith.
Except when there is a presumed uniform scientific front against religion, irrationality, or whatever.
"Scientists" are not a monolith, nor is "science", so asking "why do scientists do X" and expecting a single answer doesn't make a lot of sense.
Great! Then let's remember this the next time someone speaks favorably about science and scientists.

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cappuccino
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:31 pm

"Really no one there"?

I save bugs, they seem to understand and cooperate.
Last edited by cappuccino on Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't wait, the time will never be just right

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cappuccino
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Re: Does Buddhism really "resist" secularism?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:37 pm

Secularism is weak faith.

Weak faith doesn't help, it hinders your progress.
Don't wait, the time will never be just right

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