The last day to register was April 20. In late July/early August, we will publicly post all the content from this lecture series.

The last day to register was April 20. In late July/early August, we will publicly post all the content from this lecture series.
I'm glad you pointed that! Are the comments on the audio/video more substantive than those on the written transcripts? I clicked on a lecture transcript this morning and was confused when all I saw was an original Nibbana Sermon with some alternative translations. I probably missed something as I was in a hurry.mikenz66 wrote:Thanks Mkoll,
The style of the lectures has been that Ven Analayo reads Ven Nanananda's text, but adds some clarifying comments, and also gives more modern English translations (mostly from Bhikkhu Bodhi, including his upcoming Sutta Nipata translation).
At the start of each lecture, he has a brief discussion of points raised on the discussion forum for the previous lecture.
I went though these lectures several years ago, and made use of various extracts in some of our Sutta Study threads, particularly those on the last chapter of the Sutta Nipata. It's great to go through them again.
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Mike
mikenz66 wrote:Nibbana as something that is experienced at each path, and that experience removes the appropriate fetters. He rejects the idea that the nibbana experiences before death are continuous, just like the Commentaries.
Perhaps others have a different take on the Sermons?
If someone can attend to this instruction and achieve nibbana within the space of a nano-second, then I salute them! However, it is not for no reason that the Sangha is classified as "four types [of noble disciples] when taken as pairs, the eight when taken as individual types". This distinction deliberately separates those who have attained to the path, from those who have attained to the commensurate fruit associated with that path. Here's evidence to support that...“A learned monk, Koṭṭhita, should wisely attend to the 5 aggregates as being impermanent, as suffering [unsatisfactory], as a disease, as a tumour, as a dart, as a calamity, as an affliction, as alien, as breaking up, as void, as non-self
AN 11.12 wrote:"The Sangha of the Blessed One's disciples who have practiced well... who have practiced straight-forwardly... who have practiced methodically... who have practiced masterfully — in other words, the four types [of noble disciples] when taken as pairs, the eight when taken as individual types — they are the Sangha of the Blessed One's disciples: worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings, worthy of respect, the incomparable field of merit for the world."
It is the dubious artefact of faith coming from some quarters that a certain meditative "experience" (brought about through the application of some external technique never taught by the Buddha) will in and of itself bring about the liberating knowledge of the Buddha, which encourages some people to approach the Noble Eightfold Path in reverse order. Fruit does not precede path, and for this reason, any approach which endeavours to do so is doomed to frustration.Ud 5.5 wrote:"Just as the ocean is the abode of such mighty beings as whales, whale-eaters, and whale-eater-eaters; asuras, nagas, and gandhabbas, and there are in the ocean beings one hundred leagues long, two hundred... three hundred... four hundred... five hundred leagues long; in the same way, this Doctrine and Discipline is the abode of such mighty beings as stream-winners and those practicing to realize the fruit of stream-entry; once-returners and those practicing to realize the fruit of once-returning; non-returners and those practicing to realize the fruit of non-returning; arahants and those practicing for arahantship... This is the eighth amazing and astounding fact about this Doctrine and Discipline."
Nanananda wrote:t occurred to me that it would be best if I
could address these sermons directly to the task before us in this Nissarana
Vanaya, and that is meditative attention, rather than dealing
with those deep controversial suttas in academic isolation.
retrofuturist wrote: The idea that the "[nibbana] experience removes the appropriate fetters" is to approach the matter back-to-front, as is common amongst meditative traditions which prioritise "the practice" over understanding what the Buddha taught to actually be the practice. Out of interest, does ven. Nanananda actually say that the "[nibbana] experience removes the appropriate fetters", thereby making the experience of nibbana a necessary pre-condition for stream-entry? (Which begs the question, how does a puthujjana bring about nibbana?)
Nanananda wrote:So this string of epithets testifies to the efficacy of the realization
by the first path. It is not a mere glimpse of Nibbāna from a distance.
It is a reaching, an arrival or a plunge into Nibbāna.
Nanananda wrote:Like the sea water parted by the blow of the iron bar, preparations
part for a moment to reveal the very bottom which is ‘unprepared’,
the asankhata. Akata, or the un-made, is the same as asankhata, the
unprepared. So one has had a momentary vision of the sea bottom,
which is free from preparations. Of course, after that experience, influxes
flow in again. But one kind of influxes, namely ditthāsavā, influxes
of views, are gone for good and will never flow in again.
Not at all. Where did I say or infer anything of the sort?mikenz66 wrote:You seem to be a little dismissive of the effort that Ven Nananada, and the monks in the audience, were putting into their practice.
mikenz66 wrote:As Ven Nananda says in the first Sermon:Nanananda wrote:t occurred to me that it would be best if I
could address these sermons directly to the task before us in this Nissarana
Vanaya, and that is meditative attention, rather than dealing
with those deep controversial suttas in academic isolation.
mikenz66 wrote:Exactly what combination of "meditative attention" (as Ven Nananda puts it) and other knowledge is necessary to get to that state is, of course, up for debate...
MN 117 wrote:"One makes an effort for the abandoning of wrong view & for entering into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view.
...
"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right knowledge, right release comes into being. Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors, and the arahant with ten.
SN 45.1 wrote:The Blessed One said, "Monks, ignorance is the leader in the attainment of unskillful qualities, followed by lack of conscience & lack of concern. In an unknowledgeable person, immersed in ignorance, wrong view arises. In one of wrong view, wrong resolve arises. In one of wrong resolve, wrong speech... In one of wrong speech, wrong action... In one of wrong action, wrong livelihood... In one of wrong livelihood, wrong effort... In one of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness... In one of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration arises.
SN: Dutiya Paṭipadā Sutta wrote:The Exalted One said:
"Monks, whether in householder or recluse,
I praise no wrong practice.
If a householder or recluse practise perversity,
then in consequence of
and because of
his practice of perversity
he is no winner of the Method,
the Norm
and the good.
And what, monks, is wrong practice?
It is as follows:
Wrong view,
wrong aim,
wrong speech,
wrong action,
wrong living,
wrong effort,
wrong mindfulness
wrong concentration."
This, monks, is called 'wrong practice'.
Whether in householder or recluse, monks,
I praise not wrong practice.
For if a householder or recluse practise perversity,
then in consequence of
and because of
his practice of perversity
he is no winner of the Method,
the Norm
and the good.
I pointed out where it appears ven. Nanananda's over-reached somewhat here in a different recent topic.mikenz66 wrote:Could we return to the question of nibbana, which is, after all, what the sermons are about? I have explained how I read Ven Nananada's sermons, which seem quite clear that it is the "experience" (any word one chooses is imperfect, hence the quotes) of nibbana that destroys the fetters at the various path levels, including stream entry.
Perhaps you could point out where he is mistaken (or where I am mistaken about his statements, such as the quotes in my last post).
Not sure when they made these Nibbāna Lectures of Bhikkhu Anālayo available, but here they are:
Thanks JiWe2JiWe2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:40 pmNot sure when they made these Nibbāna Lectures of Bhikkhu Anālayo available, but here they are:
https://www.bcbsdharma.org/resources/bh ... -lectures/
And thisNāmaṃ sabbaṃ anvabhavi,
nāmā bhiyyo na vijjati,
nāmassa ekadhammassa,
sabbeva vasamanvagū.
Name has conquered everything,
There is nothing greater than name,
All have gone under the sway
Of this one thing called name."
Akkheyyasaññino sattā,
akkheyyasmiṃ patiṭṭhitā,
akkheyyaṃ apariññāya,
yogam āyanti maccuno.
Beings are conscious of what can be named (?),
They are established on the nameable,
By not comprehending the nameable things,
They come under the yoke of death."
(Analayo ?)
SN 1.20
“Beings who perceive what can be expressed
Become established in what can be expressed.
Not fully understanding what can be expressed,
They come under the yoke of Death.
(Bodhi)
Men, 'ware alone of what is told by names,
Take up their stand on what is so expressed.
If this they have not rightly understood,
They go their ways under the yoke of death.
(Mrs. Rhys Davids)
Perceiving in terms of signs,
beings take a stand on signs.
Not fully comprehending signs, they
come into the bonds of death.
(Thanissaro)
Beings who perceive the expressible [what can be expressed]
Are established in the expressible.
Not fully understanding the expressible,
They go under the yoke of death.
(Piya Tan)
The SĀ 1078 & the SA2 17 parallels have the same Chinese formulation:
眾生隨愛想,
以愛想而住,
以不知愛故,
則為死方便。
Whoever says that the signs
arising from name-and-form (?) do truly exist,
know that this person
is on the road of death.
SA2 17
(Bingenheimer)
-----
I have a hard time with Bingenheimer's translation.
The literal translation in the Chinese -> English look-up, on suttacentral, gives the following:
In accord with the arising of desire (愛) for ideation (想),
And by mean of the abinding in this desire for ideation,
One does not know the reason for this desire
And directly goes to death.
This is much more in line with the suttas.
For we know from the suttas with parallels, in accord with modern linguistics, that the vaca process is the following:
Vitakka (ideation - abstract thoughts) >> Vicāra (concretism [representation of an abstract idea in concrete terms] - concrete thoughts] - and vaca (word).
"Abstract thought" and "concretism" are my own translations - however based on a study of the words vitakka & vicāra in the suttas with parallels.
Earlier having abstractly thought, and mentally concretizing that thought, someone breaks into a word (speech); therefore vitakka & vicāra are verbal determinations.
Pubbe kho āvuso visākha vitakketvā vicāretvā pacchā vācaṃ bhindati. Tasmā vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro.
SN 41.6
And all the latter shows that the "naming" process has more to do with the vaca process (vitakka>>vicāra>>vaca), than with nāma - of which it is just a part in satta.
Note that the root √Khyā to which Akkheyya is bound, has a late meaning of "told" in the Sanskrit texts. While it has an underlying meaning of reckoning & appearing - like in संख्या saṃkhyā [ saṃ-√ khyā ] = to appear along with (RV. VS. ); and to reckon (ŚBr. MBh.).“For the sake of leading us across the flood
You **told** about the path with its many aspects.
oghassa nittharaṇatthaṃ,
anekavihitaṃ maggaṃ akkhāsi (Aor.)
SN 8.8
Being asked, **tell** it to me.
taṃ me akkhāhi (Imper.) pucchito”ti
SN 1.42 & SN 2.17
In the case of pleasant progress with quick comprehension, progress **is told** (to be) excellent on account of both pleasantness and quick comprehension.
Tatra, bhante, yāyaṃ paṭipadā sukhā khippābhiññā, ayaṃ pana, bhante, paṭipadā ubhayeneva paṇītā akkhāyati sukhattā ca khippattā ca.
DN 28
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