Modern Techniques?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Modern Techniques?

Post by Phra Chuntawongso » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:25 am

Hi all.I must apologise for my mistake in saying it was in the suttas.
Gotta stop posting late at night. :zzz:
You are quite right Bodom,The suttas only have Lord Buddha instructing the bhikus to note sitting as sitting as sitting,walking as walking etc.
I actually meant to say some of the earlier commentaries expounded the idea of noting the whole movement of the foot,such as lifting,moving putting.I think Bhuddaghosa for instance.
Again please accept my apology and next time I post I will try to be a little more awake :toilet:
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning

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Re: Modern Techniques?

Post by Freawaru » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:55 am

Sylvester wrote:I wonder how many people would agree with Gethin here -

http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... Gethin.pdf" onclick=";return false;

when he says that the suttas actually give relatively sparse instructions compared to the later literature on how to get into samadhi.
I think that the terms (forest, mountain, open air, deserted house, ...) already describe inner states rather than external places. Bhikkhu Buddhadasa names in "Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree, page 67) "forest" (arannasanna) as a state preceding the arupa jhanas.

Some of these secluded spots are also found in non-Buddhist traditions - think of "Moses on mount Sinai", the "sermon on the mount", in the Bible for example. Or the "root of a tree" in Shamanic traditions. They describe inner places (states) of seclusion and as such are the ground on which the mindfulness meditation can be done. We have to remember that there was no Buddhism at the time of the Buddha, so he had to build his teachings on the ground of meditation practice of all the other traditions around.

So I think the actual suttic instruction is: bhikkhu, enter one of the secluded states you know from your previous meditation practice of whatever tradition you have been taught in and THEN start with satipatthana as the Buddha teaches.

And seriously, that is all the instruction one needs.

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Re: Modern Techniques?

Post by bodom » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:30 pm

As for Analayo, it would help to know if he was referring specifically to the Satipatthana Sutta, or perhaps some other sutta in the Sutta Pitaka, specifically addressing the subject of walking meditation.
Analayo was referring to the 'stock' description found throughout the discourses, giving as source the following from MN:
Bhikkhus, you should train thus: 'We will be devoted to wakefulness. During the day, while walking back and forth and sitting, we will purify our minds...

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo

With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5

"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

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Re: Modern Techniques?

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:15 pm

Hi Bodom,

Yes, I looked at the book and that's where he seems to be coming from. It's strange that in making that statement he appears to be overlooking the passages that I quoted above: ... 90#pr90324. He also seems to interpret contemplation of the elements as an extension of contemplation of the body parts, rather than in terms of discerning the heaviness, movement, etc, of the body, which is now my teachers explain elements. Of course, as you know, the Mahasi school would say that contemplating motion of the feet, abdomen, or whatever, is (when sufficiently developed) contemplation of the elements.

I guess this shows that there are many ways of interpreting the instructions in the Suttas.


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