Impermanence of conciousness

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Zom
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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Zom »

I can see how one can be aware of the arising and passing of thoughts, sensations, sound etc but how is one aware of the impermanence of conciousness?
Jhanas needed.

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Spiny Norman »

I don't agree that consciousness is the same as attention. Our brains are continually processing large amounts of data from the sense organs, and presenting us with a mental model of our environment. This is largely an unconscious and automatic process.

Practices like satipatthana involve deliberately placing attention upon particular aspects of experience, or upon particular aspects of that mental model. This is actually very little to do with consciousness, which continually functions in the background.

So what is continually changing? I would suggest it's both the focus of our attention, and the objects of our attention. But again this is very little to do with the functioning of consciousness.
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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Spiny Norman »

Zom wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:05 am
I can see how one can be aware of the arising and passing of thoughts, sensations, sound etc but how is one aware of the impermanence of conciousness?
Jhanas needed.
How, exactly? What is it specifically about jhanic states that enables awareness of the impermanence of consciousness?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by confusedlayman »

Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:09 am
I don't agree that consciousness is the same as attention. Our brains are continually processing large amounts of data from the sense organs, and presenting us with a mental model of our environment. This is largely an unconscious and automatic process.

Practices like satipatthana involve deliberately placing attention upon particular aspects of experience, or upon particular aspects of that mental model. This is actually very little to do with consciousness, which continually functions in the background.

So what is continually changing? I would suggest it's both the focus of our attention, and the objects of our attention. But again this is very little to do with the functioning of consciousness.
awareness can be focused or bare... when focused its called conciousness, when bare its just bare awareness.. when its bare u dont know happening, when u focus u know whats happening.. in vipasanna u need conciousness to know.. even to know conciousness is impermanent u need to know with conciousness... in bare awareness u are not concious of anything as conciousness doest land anywhere... unlanding conciousness is not directed or focused and its again bare awareness. the background basic supply which u saying is dependent on brain activity which means impermanent and same things happening all many times without break so it looks same but its not. blood is going to brain every second and its not same blood. for example tube light has production of light every second but it looks constant due to its fast ness.
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Spiny Norman »

confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:38 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:09 am
I don't agree that consciousness is the same as attention. Our brains are continually processing large amounts of data from the sense organs, and presenting us with a mental model of our environment. This is largely an unconscious and automatic process.

Practices like satipatthana involve deliberately placing attention upon particular aspects of experience, or upon particular aspects of that mental model. This is actually very little to do with consciousness, which continually functions in the background.

So what is continually changing? I would suggest it's both the focus of our attention, and the objects of our attention. But again this is very little to do with the functioning of consciousness.
awareness can be focused or bare... when focused its called conciousness, when bare its just bare awareness.. when its bare u dont know happening, when u focus u know whats happening.. in vipasanna u need conciousness to know.. even to know conciousness is impermanent u need to know with conciousness... in bare awareness u are not concious of anything as conciousness doest land anywhere... unlanding conciousness is not directed or focused and its again bare awareness. the background basic supply which u saying is dependent on brain activity which means impermanent and same things happening all many times without break so it looks same but its not. blood is going to brain every second and its not same blood. for example tube light has production of light every second but it looks constant due to its fast ness.
Sorry but I can't follow your explanation. I think you are conflating and muddling up a number of quite different functions and experiences.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by confusedlayman »

Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:42 am
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:38 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:09 am
I don't agree that consciousness is the same as attention. Our brains are continually processing large amounts of data from the sense organs, and presenting us with a mental model of our environment. This is largely an unconscious and automatic process.

Practices like satipatthana involve deliberately placing attention upon particular aspects of experience, or upon particular aspects of that mental model. This is actually very little to do with consciousness, which continually functions in the background.

So what is continually changing? I would suggest it's both the focus of our attention, and the objects of our attention. But again this is very little to do with the functioning of consciousness.
awareness can be focused or bare... when focused its called conciousness, when bare its just bare awareness.. when its bare u dont know happening, when u focus u know whats happening.. in vipasanna u need conciousness to know.. even to know conciousness is impermanent u need to know with conciousness... in bare awareness u are not concious of anything as conciousness doest land anywhere... unlanding conciousness is not directed or focused and its again bare awareness. the background basic supply which u saying is dependent on brain activity which means impermanent and same things happening all many times without break so it looks same but its not. blood is going to brain every second and its not same blood. for example tube light has production of light every second but it looks constant due to its fast ness.
Sorry but I can't follow your explanation. I think you are conflating and muddling up a number of quite different functions and experiences.
first define what u mean by conciousness?
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Spiny Norman »

confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:05 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:42 am
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:38 am


awareness can be focused or bare... when focused its called conciousness, when bare its just bare awareness.. when its bare u dont know happening, when u focus u know whats happening.. in vipasanna u need conciousness to know.. even to know conciousness is impermanent u need to know with conciousness... in bare awareness u are not concious of anything as conciousness doest land anywhere... unlanding conciousness is not directed or focused and its again bare awareness. the background basic supply which u saying is dependent on brain activity which means impermanent and same things happening all many times without break so it looks same but its not. blood is going to brain every second and its not same blood. for example tube light has production of light every second but it looks constant due to its fast ness.
Sorry but I can't follow your explanation. I think you are conflating and muddling up a number of quite different functions and experiences.
first define what u mean by conciousness?
The cognition of sense-objects. In the suttas vinnana appears to be a basic function.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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confusedlayman
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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by confusedlayman »

Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:43 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:05 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:42 am


Sorry but I can't follow your explanation. I think you are conflating and muddling up a number of quite different functions and experiences.
first define what u mean by conciousness?
The cognition of sense-objects. In the suttas vinnana appears to be a basic function.
Cognition is focused attention of awareness to specific object. If u focus on mango and then focus on apple then focus of mango is lost ... if focus on mango is there and same for focis on apple then u should see only mango when seeing apple ... basic function of brain or basic awareenss is brain function. If no brain no basic finction.
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Zom »

How, exactly? What is it specifically about jhanic states that enables awareness of the impermanence of consciousness?
Superhuman (uttarimanussa) vision, obviously. Just normal ordinary observation is unable to see deep enough, no matter how hard you try. With consciousness things are even more interesting, because you need to reach end of consiousness through jhanas, to see that it can actually end.

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by cappuccino »

befriend wrote: but how is one aware of the impermanence of consciousness?
how can you be aware of a lack of awareness
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by cappuccino »

the content of consciousness is impermanent


the types of consciousness, as well


but consciousness itself :shrug:

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Crazy cloud »

befriend wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:33 pm
I can see how one can be aware of the arising and passing of thoughts, sensations, sound etc but how is one aware of the impermanence of conciousness?
Consciousness or awareness never ceases. It is your contracted part of consciousness/awareness that comes and goes. And in between those comings and goings, there are just infinite awareness/knowing. So it's up to you to choose either to be that which comes or goes or that which is unmovable with the comings and goings.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by Spiny Norman »

confusedlayman wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:07 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:43 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:05 am


first define what u mean by conciousness?
The cognition of sense-objects. In the suttas vinnana appears to be a basic function.
Cognition is focused attention of awareness to specific object. If u focus on mango and then focus on apple then focus of mango is lost ... if focus on mango is there and same for focis on apple then u should see only mango when seeing apple ... basic function of brain or basic awareenss is brain function. If no brain no basic finction.
I think you're talking about contact (phassa) here?

As for the apple and mango example, there will be peripheral awareness of one when focusing on the other.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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confusedlayman
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Re: Impermanence of conciousness

Post by confusedlayman »

Dinsdale wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:17 am
confusedlayman wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:07 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:43 pm


The cognition of sense-objects. In the suttas vinnana appears to be a basic function.
Cognition is focused attention of awareness to specific object. If u focus on mango and then focus on apple then focus of mango is lost ... if focus on mango is there and same for focis on apple then u should see only mango when seeing apple ... basic function of brain or basic awareenss is brain function. If no brain no basic finction.
I think you're talking about contact (phassa) here?

As for the apple and mango example, there will be peripheral awareness of one when focusing on the other.
No thats not what science says. Google multitaksing is a myth u will know
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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