Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10)and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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SarathW
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Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10)and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

Post by SarathW »

Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10) and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

It moves straight to Pithy (rapture)

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They practice breathing in experiencing the whole body. They practice breathing out experiencing the whole body.
‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;

They practice breathing in stilling the body’s motion. They practice breathing out stilling the body’s motion.
‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati. (1)

They practice breathing in experiencing rapture. They practice breathing out experiencing rapture.
‘Pītipaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘pītipaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;

https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato#11.4

https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10)and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:41 pm
rapture
Non-jhanic rapture. Bhikkhu Buddhadasa already explained this, as follows:
Do not worry, however, should the mind collect itself on a focus that may not be the highest... In our practice of step four of Anapanasati, it is not necessary to try to enter jhana completely.... If you can go on into jhana, into the material absorptions (rupa-jhana), that will be useful. It will make the next steps easier. Even if you do not reach jhana, as long as there is some piti and sukha you are doing fine...

When the feelings piti and sukha are strong enough for the mind to feel them clearly, this is sufficient concentration to be able to go on to step five. If you enter the first, second, third, and fourth rupa-jhana that is more splendid yet. But samadhi sufficient to experience piti and sukha distinctly is enough for step four.

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Bhik ... athing.htm
There is even a lower level of rapture when puthujjana volitionally imagine pleasant feelings. This is called khanikapiti from khanikasamadhi.
Rapture is graded into five categories: minor rapture, momentary rapture, showering rapture, uplifting rapture and pervading rapture. Minor rapture is generally the first to appear in the progressive development of meditation; it is capable of causing the hairs of the body to rise. Momentary rapture, which is like lightning, comes next but cannot be sustained for long. Showering rapture runs through the body in waves, producing a thrill but without leaving a lasting impact. Uplifting rapture, which can cause levitation, is more sustained but still tends to disturb concentration, The form of rapture most conductive to the attainment of jhana is all-pervading rapture, which is said to suffuse the whole body so that it becomes like a full bladder or like a mountain cavern inundated with a mighty flood of water. The Visuddhimagga states that what is intended by the jhana factor of rapture is this all-pervading rapture "which is the root of absorption and comes by growth into association with absorption" (Vism.144; PP.151)

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... ml#ch3.2.3
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

SarathW
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Re: Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10)and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

Post by SarathW »

Thanks, DD
My question is about Vitakka and Vicara.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

char101
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Re: Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10)and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

Post by char101 »

Vitakka & vicara are already practiced since the first tetrad, but the appearance of rapture is the sign of the attainment of the first and second jhana.
When the counterpart sign appears, putting forth effort until the
attainment of the first and second jhāna, in which rapture (pīti) predominates,
is what is meant by “perceiving rapture.”

(Anapana Dipani p.20)

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Vitakka and Vicara is not mentioned in Satipathana (MN10)and Mindfulness of breathing (MN118)?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:31 am
My question is about Vitakka and Vicara.
Your question appears irrelevant.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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