S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
User avatar
robertk
Posts: 3686
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by robertk »

The thing about the bodily "vibrations" is that sure , anyone who concentrates on the body will feel more and more subtle, changing sensations that they probably weren't aware of before.

If they are told they are directly experiencing 'anicca' and by extension, vipassana, the special seeing taught by the Buddha- it can seem like some threshold of understanding has been reached.

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

robertk wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:22 pm
The thing about the bodily "vibrations" is that sure , anyone who concentrates on the body will feel more and more subtle, changing sensations that they probably weren't aware of before.

If they are told they are directly experiencing 'anicca' and by extension, vipassana, the special seeing taught by the Buddha- it can seem like some threshold of understanding has been reached.
Have you much experience with this method?

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

char101 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:50 am

Maybe one of his reason is that with the popularity of his method, it is being incorporated into other techniques and thus instead of being a path to liberation it become a supplementary tool.
This is why as a student of this tradition you are not to teach unless authorized.

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 3686
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by robertk »

thepea wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:54 pm
robertk wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:22 pm
The thing about the bodily "vibrations" is that sure , anyone who concentrates on the body will feel more and more subtle, changing sensations that they probably weren't aware of before.

If they are told they are directly experiencing 'anicca' and by extension, vipassana, the special seeing taught by the Buddha- it can seem like some threshold of understanding has been reached.
Have you much experience with this method?
From studying satipatthana for 35 years aspects of right and wrong path have become less obscure..

edit: I explain my position on techniques and vipassana in detail in this thread
viewtopic.php?t=15952
While not specific to Goenka style, it might be a better place to discuss if you want more on my ideas/ experience.

form
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by form »

Very interesting to see the terms vibrations and guarding devas appearing in the comments.

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

robertk wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:02 am
thepea wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:54 pm
robertk wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:22 pm
The thing about the bodily "vibrations" is that sure , anyone who concentrates on the body will feel more and more subtle, changing sensations that they probably weren't aware of before.

If they are told they are directly experiencing 'anicca' and by extension, vipassana, the special seeing taught by the Buddha- it can seem like some threshold of understanding has been reached.
Have you much experience with this method?
From studying satipatthana for 35 years aspects of right and wrong path have become less obscure..

edit: I explain my position on techniques and vipassana in detail in this thread
viewtopic.php?t=15952
While not specific to Goenka style, it might be a better place to discuss if you want more on my ideas/ experience.
So, that’s a no.

It would be better for you to remain quiet regarding this technique if you have not practiced it directly.

Studying scriptures and their limited definitions without the experience of this method will not lead to wisdom.

Exploring vibrations at their many depths is where the Buddha’s teachings arose. Jhanas, inderstanding devas(sangha), penetrating deeper enjoying and sharing Metta, past life regressions, and finally experience nibanna. All of this is contained within the body. All of this is understood from observing vibration, vibratory sensation is the key to unlocking the dhamma. To negate the exploration of vibration, well all that’s left is a surface understanding. Which I’m sure after 35yrs of study you are quite a master of.

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 5812
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:59 pm
char101 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:50 am

Maybe one of his reason is that with the popularity of his method, it is being incorporated into other techniques and thus instead of being a path to liberation it become a supplementary tool.
This is why as a student of this tradition you are not to teach unless authorized.
Does this mean you have been authorized to teach? I only ask because it seems to be what you are implying.

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 3686
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by robertk »

thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:00 pm


It would be better for you to remain quiet regarding this technique if you have not practiced it directly.

Studying scriptures and their limited definitions without the experience of this method will not lead to wisdom.

Exploring vibrations at their many depths is where the Buddha’s teachings arose. Jhanas, inderstanding devas(sangha), penetrating deeper enjoying and sharing Metta, past life regressions, and finally experience nibanna. All of this is contained within the body. All of this is understood from observing vibration, vibratory sensation is the key to unlocking the dhamma. To negate the exploration of vibration, well all that’s left is a surface understanding. Which I’m sure after 35yrs of study you are quite a master of.
And if I observed 'vibratory sensation' - ( which is only possible by attending a Goenka course?) - I would then gain, assuming enough courses, effort , etc etc, something like this below (quotes
taken from the last week or two by thepea)
thepea:
The conditioned egoic self is not necessarily aware of these subconscious processes, but nibanna is this aware.
thepea:
You focus on the sensation and observe the changing nature. Indirectly we are minding the gaps.
As we approach subtler and subtler reality the gaps frequent. Nibbana is simply awareness of the gap, or awareness of awareness.
thepea:
Furthermore, experiencing the nibannic peace within is not Dukkha.
Awareness of awareness is the final goal. Buddha after re-discovering this aptly named this nibbana..
thepea:
Awareness is a constant, ..... The fleeting push and pull from past to future is where egoic self resides, but our true nature, the ever present awareness within is always present always aware of everything

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:15 pm
thepea wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:59 pm
char101 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:50 am

Maybe one of his reason is that with the popularity of his method, it is being incorporated into other techniques and thus instead of being a path to liberation it become a supplementary tool.
This is why as a student of this tradition you are not to teach unless authorized.
Does this mean you have been authorized to teach? I only ask because it seems to be what you are implying.
I don’t see how what I’ve said implies this?

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 5812
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:17 pm
I don’t see how what I’ve said implies this?
The fact that you are saying anything at all. You make it sound as if you need to be authorized to be posting about it.

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:28 pm
thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:17 pm
I don’t see how what I’ve said implies this?
The fact that you are saying anything at all. You make it sound as if you need to be authorized to be posting about it.
I’m not following you.

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 5812
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:29 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:28 pm
thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:17 pm
I don’t see how what I’ve said implies this?
The fact that you are saying anything at all. You make it sound as if you need to be authorized to be posting about it.
I’m not following you.
Well let's try it this way then: do you consider posting on this forum to be a form of teaching?

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:31 pm
thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:29 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:28 pm


The fact that you are saying anything at all. You make it sound as if you need to be authorized to be posting about it.
I’m not following you.
Well let's try it this way then: do you consider posting on this forum to be a form of teaching?
No, not at all.
This is not suitable environment to teach and guide in the dhamma. This is simply discussion.

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 5812
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:35 pm
This is not suitable environment to teach and guide in the dhamma. This is simply discussion.
I couldn't agree more.

thepea
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: S.N. Goenka says: only use one kind of meditation...why?

Post by thepea »

robertk wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:25 pm

And if I observed 'vibratory sensation' - ( which is only possible by attending a Goenka course?) - I would then gain, assuming enough courses, effort , etc etc, something like this below (quotes
taken from the last week or two by thepea)
I never said this was only possible from taking a goenka course, never have I said that.

From proper practice you would experience the truth of dhamma, you would then be free to express this in a way that you feel comfortable in language that you feel comfortable. English perhaps, if this was the language spoken to you in the womb. You would not feel limited to expressing through another’s translation of another’s translation of another’s memory of another’s experience and aparent words.

Post Reply